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Beni-Kujaku
2023-06-10, 08:28 AM
Hi everyone!
Let's say, in your sleep-deprived madness, you decided to play an Unbodied from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. It's not actually that bad of a monster, even as written. 4th level Psion casting, incorporeality and the ability to affect the world using telekinetic force, all that for the cost of 4 RHD and LA+4. The catch? You're an incorporeal floating brain. Actually, you're not even that, the brain itself is an illusion, you're completely formless. What that means is you can't use items at all. You have no item slot, no hand for weapons, no body to protect with an armor, no mouth to drink potions, you can't hold an item or speak a command word, and even your ioun stones keep falling to the ground when you go through walls. In a word, you have no item that can give you a permanent advantage. Now, you can still carry items with telekinetic force, just not use them, and as such, you can have loot, have money, in a word: you can have a WBL. But you're kinda tired of using it to buy new items for your teammates, and Vow of Poverty doesn't seem that interesting for an incorporeal psion. You would like to improve your own power level using what you own.

What are the best ways to use your WBL without the ability to actually use items yourself?

What I found:

Actual items:
Tome of Clear Thoughts and equivalent: overpriced, but innate stat bonuses don't require a body.
Skull Talisman: like a potion, but useable with telekinetic force
Alchemical and others "throw it and watch" items: marbles, alchemist's fire, tanglefoot bags, figurines of wondrous power, feather tokens... Also includes touch and inhaled poisons.
Team-helping mundane items: Buying a ship, a spelljammer, a house, an orphanage... Can be very expensive. Do look up the Gate Zeppelin from Planar Handbook.
Slotless Ghost Touch Items: Savage Species has a sidebar to put ghost touch on a non-armor non-weapon item for 10% of the price, greatly increasing your possibilities for a small increase in cost.

Services:
Spell service: CL x spell level x 10gp if you can find a caster of the appropriate level. Prefer long-duration spells or Permanency to gain advantages when adventuring. Notably, Wish and Psychic Chirurgery, though expensive, give a non-dispellable permanent increase to power.
Hirelings: trained: 3 sp/day, untrained: 1 sp/day. Help as a crew, to send messages, carry loot, sing your praises...
Buying a pet: A dog, or even a magical beast can be trained for a lot of money and be brought along the party. List of Tricks (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/skills/handle_animal.shtml) from various books. Price varies from the Monster Manuals to A&EG, to the Planar Handbook... Much more extensive in Pathfinder (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/goods-and-services/animals-animal-gear).

Joining an organization:
Gaining a mentor: DMG2, gain a few skill bonuses and other small advantages
DMG 2 Organizations: Unclear cost, gain access to reduced cost experts and spellcasters.
Complete Champion Organizations: Expected to donate a portion of recovered treasure, scaling benefits with increased ranking in the organization, various criteria.
Arcane Order: 30gp/month, allows to become a Mage of the Arcane Order.
Running a business: DMG2, expensive to start, but can make a lot of money in the long term.

Rituals:
Rituals of Change: From Savage Species, gain a subtype, change race, or cast wish. Expensive, but can be worth it.
Ceremony feats: From Dragon Magic, PHB2 and Exemplar of Evils, consume material components to get day-long benefits.
Acquiring a Companion Spirit: DMG2: Benefits for the team scaling with levels, requires gold and XP.

Prestige Classes:
Kensai: One of the rare way to add magical weapon properties to natural weapons, including incorporeal touch. Doesn't actually cost money unless you can somehow change gold into XP.

Miscellaneous:
Legendary sites, Magical locations: From CScoundrel and CMage, pay to access, then gain a long-running benefit.
Buy Material Components: for spells and powers. Also Incantations (UA, basically nonepic epic spells).
Researching True Names: Either for truenaming or Words of Creation
Researching New Spells and powers: if more than a thousand spells published along 7 years is just not enough.



Do you have anything else? Is there a way to craft with no hands? Know any prestige class requiring gold for their abilities (like the Kensai) without using it on a weapon that the Unbodied couldn't wield or requiring a body like Anointed Knight?

loky1109
2023-06-10, 11:03 AM
Otyugh Hole and other magic locations.


Know any prestige class requiring gold for their abilities (like the Kensai) without using it on a weapon that the Unbodied couldn't wield or requiring a body like Anointed Knight?
Well... Kensai. Unbodied's touch attack explicitly IS natural weapon and therefore Kensai's Signature Weapon works with it.

Thunder999
2023-06-10, 11:17 AM
As a psion paying to research and learn new powers is always strong, as is just paying for a whole bunch of Psychic Chirurgery

Telonius
2023-06-10, 12:56 PM
Would a Ghost Touch (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#ghostTouchWeapon) weapon not work? It's typically thought of as something to fight ghosts with, but:


The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.

Note that it's not limited to ghosts; any incorporeal creature should be able to wield it. (I'd also say that "able to move through a wall with you" would count as being more beneficial to the wielder).

Crake
2023-06-10, 01:17 PM
So, about unbodied specifically, one has to assume they do have a base form, otherwise, they could in theory, just stop assuming a likeness, and then be completely invisible, and not even be occupying a space in the world, thus be completely immune to any kind of direct attack, which doesn't appear to be the case.

So with that in mind, we need to clarify a few points. Firstly, how does assume likeness work? Is it an illusory effect like disguise self? Or is it more like a changeling's minor change shape, in that their incorporeal form actually shifts to match what they want? It really could be either, as it makes no note of being either transmutive or illusory in the description, however, in my mind I've always seen it more as a "I'm changing my incorporeal form to match that which I want".

If it IS an adjustment of the incorporeal form of the unbodied, then this changes things drastically, as now, every single item in the game opens up as an option, all you need to do is add the ghost touch ability to the item for an additiona 10% cost, and you're set. Naturally, this would remove some of the freedom of being an incorporeal creature, like moving through walls and such, but I believe that can be solved by making the items themselves incorporeal. I'm not sure where I read about it, but im like 75% sure that such a solution does exist, i just don't remember where it's written.

On the other hand, if it ISN'T a adjustment of the unbodied's true form, which we have to assume is the glowing, floating brain (though this is described as one of the forms they can assume, which i think only serves to further my assertion that it is not an illusory effect, but rather simply a change in their incorporeal manifestation), then they will have to make use of items such as ioun stones, and just pump them full of other enchantments at a x2 cost.

In any case, items are NOT completely off the board for a character like this.

Beni-Kujaku
2023-06-11, 02:38 PM
Otyugh Hole and other magic locations.
Well... Kensai. Unbodied's touch attack explicitly IS natural weapon and therefore Kensai's Signature Weapon works with it.
Already put CMage magical locations, added Kensai.
Edit: Kensai costs XP, not gold. Still added, but with a warning.


As a psion paying to research and learn new powers is always strong, as is just paying for a whole bunch of Psychic Chirurgery
Damn, that is extremely expensive for the equivalent of an Expanded Knowledge feat. Added.


So, about unbodied specifically, one has to assume they do have a base form, otherwise, they could in theory, just stop assuming a likeness, and then be completely invisible, and not even be occupying a space in the world, thus be completely immune to any kind of direct attack, which doesn't appear to be the case.
I mean, there's nothing saying that they can stop. But yeah, I agree there has to be something in there, at least the form they take when exposed to True Seeing. I'm personally of the opinion that it is the "globe of light" form that is their true form, since I feel like it's the closer to "pure mind" (and because of the suspicious line "they do not give off light", as if we could assume that they would without this line), but it could be anything and we're not sure (the other leading theory would simply be that their true form is the art in the book, so the floating brain). What we are quite sure of, however, is that the likeness is really just an illusion, and not actually a new incorporeal form. Notably, despite having a likeness from Small to Large, their actual abilities (which includes their size) do not change. So it stands to reason that they couldn't use the likeness's hands to wield ghost touch items.


all you need to do is add the ghost touch ability to the item for an additiona 10% cost, and you're set.
Wait, you can do that? Where is that from?

But yeah, ghost touch slotless items might not be a problem. I'll add them.

meschlum
2023-06-11, 02:50 PM
Ioun stones? They float around you and give you bonuses, so they should be fine. Might not follow you through walls, though...

Beni-Kujaku
2023-06-11, 02:58 PM
Ioun stones? They float around you and give you bonuses, so they should be fine. Might not follow you through walls, though...

Already talked about them, and yeah, walls are a problem. Incorporeal creatures like to go through walls all the time. Still, as Crake said, a ghost touch ioun stone should be doable.

ShurikVch
2023-06-11, 04:06 PM
Use the Armor For Unusual Creatures (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#armorForUnusualCreatures) rules to create custom armor for Unbodied (with Ghost Touch)?

ciopo
2023-06-11, 04:08 PM
Libris mortis has the ghostly grasp feat, but that's besides the exercise, isn't it?

I can't think of anything else that hasn't already been mentioned.

It has relevance outside than just incorporeal shenaingans. For monster mash purposes, nonstandard body shape implies possibly not being allowed to wear normal items, and so "wealth" becomes a further venue of showing off your work, if you can't just handwave it away to "judge are to assume standard big 6 items"

loky1109
2023-06-11, 04:14 PM
I think Rune Circles are useful for unbodied as much as for any another person.

MaxiDuRaritry
2023-06-11, 05:49 PM
You could always have a minion you can outfit to be corporeal for you.

Like, say, your psicrystal?

Crake
2023-06-11, 06:51 PM
Notably, despite having a likeness from Small to Large, their actual abilities (which includes their size) do not change. So it stands to reason that they couldn't use the likeness's hands to wield ghost touch items.

Thats why i compared it more to a changeling’s minor change shape for two reasons, its able to be anything it can imagine, not limited to just creatures, and it gains nothing from those forms, just the same as a changeling. Mimics are similar in that regard as well, theres plenty of precedence for transformative effects that grant no abilities other than the transformation.


Wait, you can do that? Where is that from?

But yeah, ghost touch slotless items might not be a problem. I'll add them.

Savage species, page 42, sidebar at the bottom of the page labelled ghost touch equipment, its just a flat 10% cost increase for any non-weapon, non-armor items

Zanos
2023-06-11, 09:03 PM
Extract Gift should be useful for spellcasting services, allowing you to buy enhancement bonuses to attributes and competence bonuses to skills.