Fey Touched vs Magic Initiate vs Aberrant Dragonmark

[DruidAlanon]

I've been thinking about feats that give spells, and I wanted to generalise this discussion.

I had discussed it in another thread about my build but the relevant point here is the following. I'd want to increase the sturdiness of my druid at the 4th level, so I'm working towards a spiked/non-metallic armor to get around 18-19AC and then add Shield somehow in the build. I don't want to multiclass so the only way this could happen is through Magic Initiate or Aberrant Dragonmark feats, as far as I know. The alternative would be to take Fay Touched and hope that the mobility from fey touched and especially the extra re-rolls from Silvery Barbs will compensate for a Shield.

From an optimisation standpoint, which choice is better?
Having misty step + silvery barbs, or 2 cantrips (nothing crucial for the build) and 1/day Shield?


The pros/cons I can see are the following:

Fey Touched:
Misty Step + Silvery Barbs
Pros: More spells (free cast of each one / day) and + 1 Wis
Cons: Can't take Shield

Magic Initiate:
2 Cantrips + Shield
Pros: 3 spells, including Shield
Cons: Only 1 cast per day, it is not a half-feat (no ASI)

Aberrant Dragonmark:
1 Cantrip + Shield
Pros: Shield, +1 Con.
Cons: Only 1 Shield per day


It's quite clear that since I'm only interested in Shield, Aberrant Dragonmark is better than Magic Initiate as it's a half-feat. But between this and Fey touched, I'm not so sure.

Also, the Aberrant Dragonmark feat states: "You learn that spell and can cast it through your mark. Once you cast it, you must finish a short or long rest before you can cast it again through the mark." If I understand this correctly, it is only 1/Shield per day. Is this correct? Or is it 1 free cast through the mark and then as long as it is prepared, it can be cast as any other 1st level spell?

An extra consideration is that we homebrewed ability scores so I have 17 Con and 18 Wis. So at 4th I could easily go 18 Con (Aberrant Dragonmark) and then max Wis later on (or take more feats). Otherwise I'd take Fey Touched for an odd Wis score, and in the next ASI i'd do (+1 con, +1 wis) to benefit from both increases. I only mention this because of the odd Con score and the already high wis. Further note that I already have Resilient (con) and with a 17-18Con, War caster is not as important for the time being.

[KorvinStarmast]

"You learn that spell and can cast it through your mark. Once you cast it, you must finish a short or long rest before you can cast it again through the mark." If I understand this correctly, it is only 1/Shield per day. Is this correct? Or is it 1 free cast through the mark and then as long as it is prepared, it can be cast as any other 1st level spell? I would need to go to my book (E:RftLW) to read the whole description, but that looks like "it recharges on a short rest" ... which if I read that correctly makes this a whole lot better.

[CTurbo]

Aberrant Dragonmark is what you want because Shield would recharge on a short rest thus allowing you to potentially cast it multiple times a day.

Magic Initiate is a strong feat, but Shield is NOT a spell that I would ever consider taking with it. As far as I know, you can't cast the bonus Magic Initiate spell with your regular spell slots unless the spell was already on your list. At that point, it just becomes an extra spell that you know that can be cast 1 extra time a day.

Fey Touched is different as in you learn 2 spells, but can also cast them through your regular slots basically becoming Druid spells for you.

[DruidAlanon]

I would need to go to my book (E:RftLW) to read the whole description, but that looks like "it recharges on a short rest" ... which if I read that correctly makes this a whole lot better.

Correct, I guess that makes it once per battle.


Aberrant Dragonmark is what you want because Shield would recharge on a short rest thus allowing you to potentially cast it multiple times a day.

Magic Initiate is a strong feat, but Shield is NOT a spell that I would ever consider taking with it. As far as I know, you can't cast the bonus Magic Initiate spell with your regular spell slots unless the spell was already on your list. At that point, it just becomes an extra spell that you know that can be cast 1 extra time a day.

Fey Touched is different as in you learn 2 spells, but can also cast them through your regular slots basically becoming Druid spells for you.

Gotcha. So as long as 1 shield/battle is worth it, Aberrant Dragonmark is the way to go. If I need more Shields nothing will fix it and if I need less, Fey Touched is the way to go with the regular slots.

[da newt]

There are some racial options too.

Githzerai is a good way to get SHIELD on your spell list.

Shadar Kai is another great way to get teleport and resistance on your PC.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Misty Step and Silvery Barbs can be very good if a bit outside the box. Think of it as improving durability and versitility if not armor class.

As important, usually good, Misty Step uses your Bonus Action and Silvery Barbs a Reaction giving you more choices and keeping you engaged when off turn.

[LudicSavant]

I've been thinking about feats that give spells, and I wanted to generalise this discussion.

I had discussed it in another thread about my build but the relevant point here is the following. I'd want to increase the sturdiness of my druid at the 4th level, so I'm working towards a spiked/non-metallic armor to get around 18-19AC and then add Shield somehow in the build. I don't want to multiclass so the only way this could happen is through Magic Initiate or Aberrant Dragonmark feats, as far as I know. The alternative would be to take Fay Touched and hope that the mobility from fey touched and especially the extra re-rolls from Silvery Barbs will compensate for a Shield.

From an optimisation standpoint, which choice is better?
Having misty step + silvery barbs, or 2 cantrips (nothing crucial for the build) and 1/day Shield?


The pros/cons I can see are the following:

Fey Touched:
Misty Step + Silvery Barbs
Pros: More spells (free cast of each one / day) and + 1 Wis
Cons: Can't take Shield

Magic Initiate:
2 Cantrips + Shield
Pros: 3 spells, including Shield
Cons: Only 1 cast per day, it is not a half-feat (no ASI)

Aberrant Dragonmark:
1 Cantrip + Shield
Pros: Shield, +1 Con.
Cons: Only 1 Shield per day


It's quite clear that since I'm only interested in Shield, Aberrant Dragonmark is better than Magic Initiate as it's a half-feat. But between this and Fey touched, I'm not so sure.

Also, the Aberrant Dragonmark feat states: "You learn that spell and can cast it through your mark. Once you cast it, you must finish a short or long rest before you can cast it again through the mark." If I understand this correctly, it is only 1/Shield per day. Is this correct? Or is it 1 free cast through the mark and then as long as it is prepared, it can be cast as any other 1st level spell?

An extra consideration is that we homebrewed ability scores so I have 17 Con and 18 Wis. So at 4th I could easily go 18 Con (Aberrant Dragonmark) and then max Wis later on (or take more feats). Otherwise I'd take Fey Touched for an odd Wis score, and in the next ASI i'd do (+1 con, +1 wis) to benefit from both increases. I only mention this because of the odd Con score and the already high wis. Further note that I already have Resilient (con) and with a 17-18Con, War caster is not as important for the time being.

Aberrant Dragonmark isn't only 1/day. It's 1/short rest. Also it comes with an extra rider effect!

[Crgaston]

I feel like Fey Touched is the clear winner here. Shield is great and all, but with FT, you're able to use your druid slots to cast those spells on top of the free daily cast. And as a Druid, being able to pull off some Spike Growth/Misty Step/Thorn Whip shenanigans would be pretty fun.

[Segev]

Just as a side note, even though Aberrant Dragon MArk doesn't take the pains to say you can cast its spell with spell slots, it does say "you learn" the spell. I believe that knowing the spell is all that's required to be able to cast it with whatever spell slots you have. So I think, since you would know shield, you could also cast it with normal spell slots.

That said, on silvery barbs vs. shield (which is part of the consideration between Aberrant Dragonmark and Fey Touched), ask yourself this: what percentage of attack rolls that hit you will be natural 20s? If you've got your AC so high that things need to roll very close to 20 on the die, silvery barbs is likely to be better for you, simply because you may only be hit once in a given round, and that is more likely to be a natural 20 that a shield won't help with. If, on the other hand, a 10+ or so is likely to hit you without shield, shield will be your better bet, since it will protect you for a whole round from a larger number of possible hits.

[ender241]

Just as a side note, even though Aberrant Dragon MArk doesn't take the pains to say you can cast its spell with spell slots, it does say "you learn" the spell. I believe that knowing the spell is all that's required to be able to cast it with whatever spell slots you have. So I think, since you would know shield, you could also cast it with normal spell slots.

I believe RAW that only works if you're a Sorcerer. Because while you know it, it's a Sorcerer spell, so you have no way to prepare it / cast it with your spell slots. In this case, OP can't prepare it because it's not a Druid spell. It's a little less clear if you've multiclassed but as a single-classed Druid you're pretty explicitly restricted to only using your spell slots on Druid spells you have prepared (emphasis mine):


Preparing and Casting Spells
The Druid table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your druid spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these druid spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.

You prepare the list of druid spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the druid spell list. When you do so, choose a number of druid spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your druid level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Correct, I guess that makes it once per battle.



Gotcha. So as long as 1 shield/battle is worth it, Aberrant Dragonmark is the way to go. If I need more Shields nothing will fix it and if I need less, Fey Touched is the way to go with the regular slots.

Once per short rest is usually not the same as once per battle. It'd be normal to have 2-3 encounters per short rest, though your table may be an exception.

Magic Initiate is usually taken primarily for the cantrips; if you're interested in leveled spells the other options are better. Fey Touched is really good for a lot of builds if you can make it work, though if your table is playing more of a nova game (which from your equating short rests with 1 battle it might be) then the ability to spam Shield goes up in value.

[Segev]

Hm, true, the strictest reading would allow only warlocks, bards, rangers, and sorcerers to exploit the feat for knowledge of the spell letting them cast it, and then only if the spell were already on their class list.

[Mastikator]

1 Shield once per 1-3 battles is plenty though. It only turns ~25% of hits into misses. How many attacks against your character hits per round? How many rounds per battle? How many battles per short rest?

In my experience of playing shield-characters is that there aren't opportunities every battle to use it, but it's really good when used.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

1 Shield once per 1-3 battles is plenty though. It only turns ~25% of hits into misses. How many attacks against your character hits per round? How many rounds per battle? How many battles per short rest?

In my experience of playing shield-characters is that there aren't opportunities every battle to use it, but it's really good when used.

In that light Aberrant Dragonmark isn't a bad option if you want Shield if your average day looks like 6ish encounters with a couple of short rests in between. This is particularly true if you can find a cantrip you like as well.

[Agnes]

Just wanted to bring up Strixhaven Initiate since I don't see it mentioned. It's like magic initiate except you can continue to cast the spell granted by it with your own spell slots past its one free usage per day. You have to pick the two cantrips from a list of three which might be worse depending on what you want, but you can get wisdom-based fire bolt and ray of frost from it if you're interested in that. All schools except Silverquill should give you the ability to take shield.

It's also a prerequisite to the feat Strixhaven Mascot, which most importantly lets you ritual cast Find Familiar with some new familiar options and you can teleport with your familiar if it's within 60ft of you as an action once per long rest, or if you use a 2nd level slot or higher past the first free usage. The familiar you get is based on the school you choose, so I'd look into this before picking a school if you plan to go this route. From an optimization standpoint, Fey Touched is probably better over Strixhaven Mascot I'd imagine, just wanted to mention it.

I'm not sure what feat would be the best objectively, but I wanted to mention Strixhaven Initiate just in case.

[DruidAlanon]

Thanks all for the discussion, this is very helpful.


In that light Aberrant Dragonmark isn't a bad option if you want Shield if your average day looks like 6ish encounters with a couple of short rests in between. This is particularly true if you can find a cantrip you like as well.

I lean towards Aberrant Dragonmark for the +1 con as well which will fix my odd number. I don't care much about the cantrip as I already have what I want, and what's missing right now wil come later through the Druid's list. My main concern was whether I need to cast shield more than 1/encounter. The long/short rest doesn't trouble me much as our encounters are seldom.


Just wanted to bring up Strixhaven Initiate since I don't see it mentoverioned. It's like magic initiate except you can continue to cast the spell granted by it with your own spell slots past its one free usage per day. You have to pick the two cantrips from a list of three which might be worse depending on what you want, but you can get wisdom-based fire bolt and ray of frost from it if you're interested in that. All schools except Silverquill should give you the ability to take shield.

It's also a prerequisite to the feat Strixhaven Mascot, which most importantly lets you ritual cast Find Familiar with some new familiar options and you can teleport with your familiar if it's within 60ft of you as an action once per long rest, or if you use a 2nd level slot or higher past the first free usage. The familiar you get is based on the school you choose, so I'd look into this before picking a school if you plan to go this route. From an optimization standpoint, Fey Touched is probably better over Strixhaven Mascot I'd imagine, just wanted to mention it.

I'm not sure what feat would be the best objectively, but I wanted to mention Strixhaven Initiate just in case.

I exluded Strixhaven Initiate from my first post, as I see it as an inferior choice to Aberrant Dragonmark. The extra cantrips are nice but I cant justify the full feat cost for an extra cantrip. With the Aberrant Dragonarmk, apart from the shield, I also fix my odd Con score which boosts con saves and hp. Firebolt + ray of frorst are just fine with good utility and damage, but since I play a spores druid I already have chill touch as a reliable ranged cantrip and I'm not sure sacrificing an ASI for the occasional targeted slow or burning an object is worth the trade off. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise though.


1 Shield once per 1-3 battles is plenty though. It only turns ~25% of hits into misses. How many attacks against your character hits per round? How many rounds per battle? How many battles per short rest?


This is interesting and I did the math for this to justify taking the Shield spell.

At 2nd lvl, my spores druid has 18HP. To make this calculation at 4th where the relevant ASI is, let's assume I get 9 more HP from the 2d8 and 8 from my +4 Con (including +1 con from the half-feat). So at 4th I'll have around 33HP. With symbiotic entity up, I'll have around 51HP. By the time, with a spiked armor (working towards it) plus a standard shield, I'll have 17AC (16 at the moment). Assume I use my action to cast a cantrip and also concentrate on a spell (so no dodge action).

Assume an enemy that hits twice with +6 and deals 10 dmg per hit (which should be quite common at 4th, if not underpowered).
My hits until downed are 51/(2*10) = 2.55= 3 rounds (assuming I dont activate the 2nd symbiotic entity).
The sucessful attacks per hit are 20/(21+6-17) = 2
The attacks until downed are 3 * 2 = 6
And since the enemy has multiattack, it'd need essentially 6 rounds to kill me where in each round on average 1 attack misses and one hits.

As a side note, assuming I get Shield from Abberant Dragonmark, my con save is +6, I have 85% chance to pass the con save if I concentrate. This means that over 6 rounds of combat I have 38% chance to keep concentrating on that spell. The joinst probability to fail the con save falls bellow 50% at 5th round, which effectively means that I'll likely die first before loosing concentration.

Now, assuming I cast shield as a reaction at that round. From 50% chance to hit me, the probability drops to 25% for e.g. the 2 hits in that round and his hits-to-attack ratio increases temporariliy to 5. This effectively saves me 10HP and a full round of combat. i.e. I trade a reaction and 1st level spell, for 4 attacks in 2 rounds to do the equivalent damage of 2 attacks. That's action economy. Note that shield also increases the probability to keep concentrating over 6 rounds to 44% (from 38%).

Incidentally, with these particular numbers silvery barbs causes similar defensive efficiency (from 50% to 25%) but it doesn't last until the start of the next turn. Note however that the higher is the enemy's attack bonus the better is shield. E.g. with a +8 to hit, the probability to hit is 60%. With shield it drops to 35%, with silvery barbs to 36%. The probability that at least one attack hits with shield is 57% whereas the probability that at least one hits with silvery barbs is 74%. So it seems that Shield defensively is better. What of course cannot be quantified in such a manner is the combination of silvery barbs + misty step. A generous assumption is that with misty step you disengage completely and avoid damage for that round but that'd be a bit generous.




In my experience of playing shield-characters is that there aren't opportunities every battle to use it, but it's really good when used.

I don't have much experience with shield but I was/am afraid that I'll need it more than once per battle. Good to know that it is a bit more situational.



As correctly pointed out, in our adventure we have never done more than 1 battle per long rest. Since I track this down, we do 0.3 battles per long rest on average (1 every 3 days in-game).

[Agnes]

I exluded Strixhaven Initiate from my first post, as I see it as an inferior choice to Aberrant Dragonmark. The extra cantrips are nice but I cant justify the full feat cost for an extra cantrip. With the Aberrant Dragonarmk, apart from the shield, I also fix my odd Con score which boosts con saves and hp. Firebolt + ray of frorst are just fine with good utility and damage, but since I play a spores druid I already have chill touch as a reliable ranged cantrip and I'm not sure sacrificing an ASI for the occasional targeted slow or burning an object is worth the trade off. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise though.


I brought it up because Aberrant Dragonmark is a bit unclear of whether you can cast shield with your own spell slots or not past its one free usage per short/long rest. If your game runs Aberrant Dragonmark as being able to cast shield with your own slots, then yeah I agree it's strictly better due to how useful the +1 con is.

Strixhaven Initiate allows usage of shield using your own spell slots past its one free usage a day. So if you want more than 1 shield per battle, and you can't do so with Aberrant Dragonmark, then that's the only reason I'd consider taking it. The wisdom-based cantrips are just a bonus. Even still, Aberrant Dragonmark may be better to fix the odd con. Planning more long-term, if your game goes to level 8+, you could also take a half-feat there to fix the odd con but then you're delaying max wisdom even longer if you want that.

[DruidAlanon]

Strixhaven Initiate allows usage of shield using your own spell slots past its one free usage a day. So if you want more than 1 shield per battle, and you can't do so with Aberrant Dragonmark, then that's the only reason I'd consider taking it.

Aha! I just re-read this and indeed it looks like a decent alternative. I'll check with my DM how he'll rule Aberrant Dragonmark. If he allows me to cast shield with my spell slots I'll opt for this one. If not Strixhaven Initiate is actually a quite good plan B.

[animorte]

My vote is 100% Aberrant Dragonmark. Primarily for that ability score +1 right where you need it. You also get the rider.

These things have already been stated, but I thought it was worth my two copper, whether or not you can cast the spell with your additional slots.

[Gignere]

My vote is 100% Aberrant Dragonmark. Primarily for that ability score +1 right where you need it. You also get the rider.

These things have already been stated, but I thought it was worth my two copper, whether or not you can cast the spell with your additional slots.

Probably super late to the discussion but personally I’d go resilient con ASAP as a Druid. Nearly all your good spells require concentration, big difference between 15% chance of failing a concentration save versus no chance of it happening, as long as you don’t take more than 21 damage from a single attack/source.

[DruidAlanon]

My vote is 100% Aberrant Dragonmark. Primarily for that ability score +1 right where you need it. You also get the rider.

These things have already been stated, but I thought it was worth my two copper, whether or not you can cast the spell with your additional slots.

That's probably what will happen, yes. Thanks! I could take fey touched or whatever and even out my con later at 8th but doing this at 4th plus taking Shield, and postponing maxing WIS at 8th is arguably better.


Probably super late to the discussion but personally I’d go resilient con ASAP as a Druid. Nearly all your good spells require concentration, big difference between 15% chance of failing a concentration save versus no chance of it happening, as long as you don’t take more than 21 damage from a single attack/source.

Not late at all. I got resilient con already in level 1 through custom lineage. In case my character's stats and in particular the 18 WIS without a half-feat is confusing, our DM gave us a quite inflated custom point buy.

[Gignere]

Not late at all. I got resilient con already in level 1 through custom lineage. In case my character's stats and in particular the 18 WIS without a half-feat is confusing, our DM gave us a quite inflated custom point buy.

In that case my pick would be Fey touched. Shield is good on a front liner like my current Bladesinger, but on my god wizard I’ve hardly ever used it. Positioning via misty step was way more defensively impactful on my god wizard. However on the Bladesinger shield helped me survive a 13 attack round. Basically turning 6 hits into 1.