Pathfinder Spells that fix something and should be in 3.5e

[redking]

I'll go first. "Scry and die" is one of the least interesting ways to play the game. The fact that there is little defense against it is a huge annoyance. In the worlds of D&D, "scry and die" would be known, and countermeasures developed. Introducing the Pathfinder spell Teleport Trap (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleport-trap/).

Teleport Trap
School abjuration; Level sorcerer/wizard 7; Subdomain trap 7

CASTING

Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, M (powdered lodestones and silver worth 100 gp per 40-ft. cube)

EFFECT

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area one 40-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration 1 day/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION

Teleport trap wards an area, redirecting all teleportation into or out of the area to a specific point within the area determined by you at the time of casting. The destination must be an open space on a solid surface. The spell’s area overlaps walls and other solid and liquid objects (preventing intruders from bypassing the ward by teleporting into a wall or through similar means). A teleporting creature that is affected by a teleport trap can resist the effect with a Will save—if the save is successful, the creature simply doesn’t teleport at all (but the use of the teleport effect is still consumed)—either to the intended location or the teleport trap’s actual destination. A DC 27 Knowledge (arcana) allows such a creature to recognize the teleport trap’s presence, but does not reveal the trap’s linked destination.

At your discretion, the teleport trap can exclude a category of creatures, such as an alignment, a type of creature, or creatures that carry a specific item or know a password (though this only works if the creature is teleporting out of the area, not into it). You select this option and the conditions at the time you cast the spell. Overly complicated conditions may cause the spell to fail entirely. Multiple castings of teleport trap can be linked to cover a larger area, allowing teleported creatures to be directed to a single point within the combined area of the spells.

Teleport trap can be made permanent at the cost of 7,000 gp. A single permanency spell can be used on all teleport traps that share a linked destination, but the gold piece cost must be paid for each individual spell.

Scry and die is still viable under certain circumstances, but it could also be a trap. Combine with illusion spells, and scry and die could mean he death of the person doing the scrying.

[Inevitability]

Doesn't Anticipate Teleportation do something similar in 3.5 already?

[Zanos]

That spell just seems like a variation of halaster's teleport cage. Not to mention the other scry and die wards in 3.5, like, lead. Or Private Sanctum.

[redking]

Doesn't Anticipate Teleportation do something similar in 3.5 already?

Anticipate Teleportation delays the teleportation for one round and let's the subject know exactly where the teleporting person will arrive. It still may not be long enough to do something about it. It doesn't really prevent a scry and die either.


That spell just seems like a variation of halaster's teleport cage. Not to mention the other scry and die wards in 3.5, like, lead. Or Private Sanctum.


Halaster's Teleport Cage doesn't work from outside the cage. Instead, someone trying to enter the caged area from without is teleported randomly elsewhere (not within the cage). Because of that, yes it can be used defensively (but note, Forgotten Realms and unique creator of the spell), but cannot be used as a trap. It can serve as a area wide dimensional lock, keeping teleporting characters within the cage.

Private Sanctum is an effective counter scrying method. However, the best counter to scry and die is kill the person scrying. That's what makes teleport trap so good.

[noob]

Anticipate Teleportation delays the teleportation for one round and let's the subject know exactly where the teleporting person will arrive. It still may not be long enough to do something about it. It doesn't really prevent a scry and die either.


The scry and die becomes a scry and die where it is the scryer that dies.
Do not teleport in an anticipate teleport area, there is ways in one round to turn a spot in a deathtrap.

[redking]

The scry and die becomes a scry and die where it is the scryer that dies.
Do not teleport in an anticipate teleport area, there is ways in one round to turn a spot in a deathtrap.

Presumably the person doing the scrying teleports in while it is inconvenient for you, such as when you are on the privy. It's also a lot less useful when you have multiple creatures teleporting in at the same time, which is also a common scry and die scenario.

[Zanos]

Teleport cage does work from outside the cage; it sends you to a completely random location somewhere within the range of your spell.


When a caster outside the area encompassed by teleport cage attempts to teleport into it, this spell redirects his destination to another random location reachable by the spell. For example, if a 9th-level wizard in the city above attempted to teleport into the depths of Undermountain, the encompassing teleport cage would cause him to appear at another random location within 900 miles of the place where he cast the spell.
This probably kills you, for the record, consciering how many locations within 900 miles of your destination are either solid ground or open air.

And I was referring to the odd consideration in both spells text that the spell areas merge to become one spell effect, making me think whoever wrote teleport trap was staring at teleport cage.

[Biggus]

I'll go first. "Scry and die" is one of the least interesting ways to play the game. The fact that there is little defense against it is a huge annoyance. In the worlds of D&D, "scry and die" would be known, and countermeasures developed. Introducing the Pathfinder spell Teleport Trap (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleport-trap/).

Teleport Trap
School abjuration; Level sorcerer/wizard 7; Subdomain trap 7

CASTING

Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, M (powdered lodestones and silver worth 100 gp per 40-ft. cube)

EFFECT

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area one 40-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration 1 day/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION

Teleport trap wards an area, redirecting all teleportation into or out of the area to a specific point within the area determined by you at the time of casting. The destination must be an open space on a solid surface. The spell’s area overlaps walls and other solid and liquid objects (preventing intruders from bypassing the ward by teleporting into a wall or through similar means). A teleporting creature that is affected by a teleport trap can resist the effect with a Will save—if the save is successful, the creature simply doesn’t teleport at all (but the use of the teleport effect is still consumed)—either to the intended location or the teleport trap’s actual destination. A DC 27 Knowledge (arcana) allows such a creature to recognize the teleport trap’s presence, but does not reveal the trap’s linked destination.

At your discretion, the teleport trap can exclude a category of creatures, such as an alignment, a type of creature, or creatures that carry a specific item or know a password (though this only works if the creature is teleporting out of the area, not into it). You select this option and the conditions at the time you cast the spell. Overly complicated conditions may cause the spell to fail entirely. Multiple castings of teleport trap can be linked to cover a larger area, allowing teleported creatures to be directed to a single point within the combined area of the spells.

Teleport trap can be made permanent at the cost of 7,000 gp. A single permanency spell can be used on all teleport traps that share a linked destination, but the gold piece cost must be paid for each individual spell.

Scry and die is still viable under certain circumstances, but it could also be a trap. Combine with illusion spells, and scry and die could mean he death of the person doing the scrying.

Regardless of whether this specific example is necessary or not, I'm very interested in this subject in general as I'm running a 3.5 game but with quite a bit of content imported from PF and 5E to fix up the holes. Do you know of any others?

[noob]

Teleport cage does work from outside the cage; it sends you to a completely random location somewhere within the range of your spell.


This probably kills you, for the record, consciering how many locations within 900 miles of your destination are either solid ground or open air.

And I was referring to the odd consideration in both spells text that the spell areas merge to become one spell effect, making me think whoever wrote teleport trap was staring at teleport cage.

In case you noticed it says "reachable by the spell"
So with dim door, you can be teleported within the ground.
With teleport you will be restricted by the following clauses:

You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination.
You can't simply teleport to the warlord's tent if you don't know where that tent is, what it looks like, or what's in it.
You might say "there is the off target clause that enables more teleportation places"
However that clause only brings you to safe places:

Off Target: You appear safely a random distance away from the destination in a random direction.
So the only issue is if you know how unsafe locations looks like (ex: you already have been within the ground due to dim door).

[redking]

Regardless of whether this specific example is necessary or not, I'm very interested in this subject in general as I'm running a 3.5 game but with quite a bit of content imported from PF and 5E to fix up the holes. Do you know of any others?

Depending on how strongly you feel blood magic should be part of your game, the blood money is quite flavourful.

Blood Money

School: transmutation; Level: magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1

CASTING

Casting Time: 1 swift action
Components: V, S

EFFECT

Range: 0 ft.
Effect: 1 material component
Duration: Instantaneous

DESCRIPTION

You cast blood money just before casting another spell. As part of this spell’s casting, you must cut one of your hands, releasing a stream of blood that causes you to take 1d6 points of damage. When you cast another spell in that same round, your blood transforms into one material component of your choice required by that second spell. Even valuable components worth more than 1 gp can be created, but creating such material components requires an additional cost of 1 point of Strength damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component’s value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.). You cannot create magic items with blood money.

For example, a sorcerer with the spell stoneskin prepared could cast blood money to create the 250 gp worth of diamond dust required by that spell, taking 1d6 points of damage and 1 point of Strength damage in the process.

Material components created by blood money transform back into blood at the end of the round if they have not been used as a material component. Spellcasters who do not have blood cannot cast blood money, and those who are immune to Strength damage (such as undead spellcasters) cannot use blood money to create valuable material components.


I don't argue that this fixes a strategic gap like teleport trap, however.

[Crake]

The scry and die becomes a scry and die where it is the scryer that dies.

Isnt there an ability or effect that makes an enemy caster save vs phantasmal killer every time they try and scry you?

[Asmotherion]

On Scry and Die tactics: A simple Alarm Spell is more than enough to prevent the tactics from working. Just saying.

[noob]

On Scry and Die tactics: A simple Alarm Spell is more than enough to prevent the tactics from working. Just saying.

It is true that it will find the scry sensor(in fact not, I checked and found it is uncertain if the sensor is a creature or not), however even if the scry captor is detected, the guy can still teleport in your face.
Alarm can only detect creatures.
Is the scry sensor a creature or not and is it tiny or larger?

[Asmotherion]

It is true that it will find the scry sensor(in fact not, I checked and found it is uncertain if the sensor is a creature or not), however even if the scry captor is detected, the guy can still teleport in your face.
Alarm can only detect creatures.
Is the scry sensor a creature or not and is it tiny or larger?

I was thinking along the lines of "Someone enters your Alarm Spell, thus you are awake and not helpless, as the spell wakes you up". They may have the benefit of a surprise round, but it's not nearly as lethal as coup de grace-ing you.

About the sensor, I don't know... I guess it counts as an object? If someone has any further info, please share.