Olive_Sophia
2023-06-19, 11:05 PM
Crossposting my thread from Minmax forums, because this place seems to be much more active.
I was looking at this feat from Stormwrack the other day, and I noticed something funny about it.
SANCTIFY WATER [DIVINE]
You can call upon positive energy to momentarily transform normal water around you into holy water. This feat is often learned by the clerics and paladins of sea gods, as well as aquatic clerics of all stripes.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, ability to channel positive energy.
Benefit: By expending a daily turn undead attempt, you can infuse the water around you with positive energy, which has the same effect as holy water. All creatures in a 20-foot radius around you immediately take damage as though they’d been struck directly by a flask of holy water. The water retains positive energy for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier, and deals damage each round.
Creatures unaffected by holy water are similarly unaffected by this ability.
—
It’s about the damaging effect. It doesn’t actually say anything about requiring nearby enemies to be standing in water or touching water, or anything of that nature. So it seems that activating this feat causes two separate effects. First, it turns any nearby water into holy water. Secondly, all creatures within 20ft immediately take damage as if they’d been hit with a flask of holy water, regardless of whether or not they are in contact with the holy water that was just made.
Against the undead, this is… kinda good. Not amazing, but it’s a pretty big aoe that you can use plenty of times per day. And there’s no attack roll or save. Unfortunately it is difficult to increase this damage, and probably no splash damage is applied. Each creature takes damage “as if they’d been struck directly” with the flask. Not as if you struck them with it. So Grenadier and Shaped Splash probably do nothing here.
It might be particularly good against undead swarms - they take extra damage from this effect, they don’t take damage from regular weapons, and they often come in groups.
This was an interesting find, though niche. And I think it makes sense to a degree. Creating the holy water involves a burst of positive energy that deals similar damage to the water it’s meant to create. Nearby undead creatures would feel that effect.
If we accept this interpretation, there is a question about what “The water retains positive energy for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier, and deals damage each round,” actually means. If this just refers to the holy water created, maybe it means that targets struck with it will continue to take the usual damage round after round while the duration lasts — like the lingering effects of Alchemists Fire, but considerably longer. This part is certainly a stretch, but it would make the feat even more valuable. Perhaps the short-duration holy water created by this feat is more potent than the usual stuff (due to having just been infused with positive energy.)
Strictly speaking, it’s difficult to find a reference for holy water dealing damage every round - or what that damage would be. The entry for Holy Water says that it damages undead “almost as if it were acid”. But it doesn’t provide any rules for how much damage holy water does, apart from the case of throwing or using a flask. The feat seems to conjure images of pools of water made holy continually burning undead caught within- but there aren’t any rules for this that I’m aware of. There is a rule for total submersion in acid - 10d6 a round. And a rule for exposure - 1d6 a round. But holy water does different damage, and it’s entry doesn’t provide us with any information about how to handle such scenarios. It's connection to acid is the line that says holy water deals damage to certain creatures “almost as if it were acid” - which is such a weak link that I could believe it’s just an evocative description rather than any kind of rules sharing.
Once again, the feat doesn’t mention any particular quantity of water. If the only water around is one or two flasks on your person - the line “The water retains positive energy for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier, and deals damage each round,” probably still applies to it. The only damage amount we have for holy water is 2d4 on a hit with a flask. This led to the possibility of the (generous) interpretation where the flask does lingering damage each round (2d4) to any undead struck.
If a DM allowed that, it still wouldn’t be that powerful in the grand scheme. But it’s clearly not as intended. I've played a trapmaster/splash weapon character before; I may have picked this feat up back then if I had read it like this. :smallbiggrin:
I was looking at this feat from Stormwrack the other day, and I noticed something funny about it.
SANCTIFY WATER [DIVINE]
You can call upon positive energy to momentarily transform normal water around you into holy water. This feat is often learned by the clerics and paladins of sea gods, as well as aquatic clerics of all stripes.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, ability to channel positive energy.
Benefit: By expending a daily turn undead attempt, you can infuse the water around you with positive energy, which has the same effect as holy water. All creatures in a 20-foot radius around you immediately take damage as though they’d been struck directly by a flask of holy water. The water retains positive energy for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier, and deals damage each round.
Creatures unaffected by holy water are similarly unaffected by this ability.
—
It’s about the damaging effect. It doesn’t actually say anything about requiring nearby enemies to be standing in water or touching water, or anything of that nature. So it seems that activating this feat causes two separate effects. First, it turns any nearby water into holy water. Secondly, all creatures within 20ft immediately take damage as if they’d been hit with a flask of holy water, regardless of whether or not they are in contact with the holy water that was just made.
Against the undead, this is… kinda good. Not amazing, but it’s a pretty big aoe that you can use plenty of times per day. And there’s no attack roll or save. Unfortunately it is difficult to increase this damage, and probably no splash damage is applied. Each creature takes damage “as if they’d been struck directly” with the flask. Not as if you struck them with it. So Grenadier and Shaped Splash probably do nothing here.
It might be particularly good against undead swarms - they take extra damage from this effect, they don’t take damage from regular weapons, and they often come in groups.
This was an interesting find, though niche. And I think it makes sense to a degree. Creating the holy water involves a burst of positive energy that deals similar damage to the water it’s meant to create. Nearby undead creatures would feel that effect.
If we accept this interpretation, there is a question about what “The water retains positive energy for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier, and deals damage each round,” actually means. If this just refers to the holy water created, maybe it means that targets struck with it will continue to take the usual damage round after round while the duration lasts — like the lingering effects of Alchemists Fire, but considerably longer. This part is certainly a stretch, but it would make the feat even more valuable. Perhaps the short-duration holy water created by this feat is more potent than the usual stuff (due to having just been infused with positive energy.)
Strictly speaking, it’s difficult to find a reference for holy water dealing damage every round - or what that damage would be. The entry for Holy Water says that it damages undead “almost as if it were acid”. But it doesn’t provide any rules for how much damage holy water does, apart from the case of throwing or using a flask. The feat seems to conjure images of pools of water made holy continually burning undead caught within- but there aren’t any rules for this that I’m aware of. There is a rule for total submersion in acid - 10d6 a round. And a rule for exposure - 1d6 a round. But holy water does different damage, and it’s entry doesn’t provide us with any information about how to handle such scenarios. It's connection to acid is the line that says holy water deals damage to certain creatures “almost as if it were acid” - which is such a weak link that I could believe it’s just an evocative description rather than any kind of rules sharing.
Once again, the feat doesn’t mention any particular quantity of water. If the only water around is one or two flasks on your person - the line “The water retains positive energy for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier, and deals damage each round,” probably still applies to it. The only damage amount we have for holy water is 2d4 on a hit with a flask. This led to the possibility of the (generous) interpretation where the flask does lingering damage each round (2d4) to any undead struck.
If a DM allowed that, it still wouldn’t be that powerful in the grand scheme. But it’s clearly not as intended. I've played a trapmaster/splash weapon character before; I may have picked this feat up back then if I had read it like this. :smallbiggrin: