My daughter wants to try dnd Help me build her first character: fire breath character

[Zhepna]

Hi,

She wants to have a breath that throws fire and acid. She wants to fly and eventually teleport. She wants to pitch lightning with her hands.

So I was thinking about making her a wizard as her first character but I never used breath weapons or spells using breath so don't know if there are race, template or feat that make a good combo.

My mind tell me Dragonblood subtype could be good with that but I have no idea if it's good. I have memories of sorcerer wanthing Dragonblood subtype.

I don't know if it's better than a wizard. She'll always use the same spells since it's her first character.

Do you have ideas or advices?

[Kish]

Possibly a mephling sorcerer, if those are her specifications.

[pabelfly]

Wizards are really complicated. I would instead suggest Dragonfire Adept. They get an all-day breath weapons that scales, and gets extra effects like elemental types, and they can pick an invocation every two levels or so to give them some versatility.

[Anymage]

Three questions. How old is she, what books do you have available, and how comfortable are you refluffing?

Wizards, despite being iconic, are hard for a lot of newer/more casual players to wrap their heads around. The idea that you have to ready each instance of a magic thing you can do each day is going to be more mental overhead than just having a stable menu of options you can use as long as you have the oomph, and vancian casting doesn't really match up with any fantasy that isn't directly based on D&D or Jack Vance. (And even D&D stuff, I'll point to how the D&D movie took artistic license with spellcasting abilities.) Dragonfire Adept was pointed out as an example of a class that covers what you want, and even a basic sorcerer could have a lot of their abilities refluffed as breath weapons or other basic elemental controls.

[Crake]

Breath weapons, flight through invocation, and tactical teleportation through invocation, thats pretty much an exact fit for her wants, dragonfire adept is 100% the go

Gonna second the idea that wizard is a bad pick for a new player, and may even turn them off the game

[MinimanMidget]

Yeah, reading your pitch it really fits Dragonfire Adept to a T. The only thing missing is the ability to teleport, which you'd have to pick up via other means - Martial Study, Shape Soulmeld, or just letting her take the warlock invocation that does it.

[Zhepna]

Three questions. How old is she, what books do you have available, and how comfortable are you refluffing?

Wizards, despite being iconic, are hard for a lot of newer/more casual players to wrap their heads around. The idea that you have to ready each instance of a magic thing you can do each day is going to be more mental overhead than just having a stable menu of options you can use as long as you have the oomph, and vancian casting doesn't really match up with any fantasy that isn't directly based on D&D or Jack Vance. (And even D&D stuff, I'll point to how the D&D movie took artistic license with spellcasting abilities.) Dragonfire Adept was pointed out as an example of a class that covers what you want, and even a basic sorcerer could have a lot of their abilities refluffed as breath weapons or other basic elemental controls.

She is 10 years old. I'll try to build Dragonfire Adept :) All books are available, including dragon magazine, non officials book s like book of erotic fantasy (was thinking about using Metaphysical Spell Shaper with a metamagic heavy build before posting this help post), all the pathfinder 1er edition book are also allowed.

For the refluffing, no problemo. I'll do everything for her to like playing.

[Crake]

She is 10 years old. I'll try to build Dragonfire Adept :) All books are available, including dragon magazine, non officials book s like book of erotic fantasy (was thinking about using Metaphysical Spell Shaper with a metamagic heavy build before posting this help post), all the pathfinder 1er edition book are also allowed.

For the refluffing, no problemo. I'll do everything for her to like playing.

I dunno if you should be using BoEF with a 10 year old, just saying.

[Olive_Sophia]

She is 10 years old. I'll try to build Dragonfire Adept :)

You really should, it's a super fun class. If you haven't looked at them yet, check out the Metabreath feats. They essentially let you make your breath stronger by increasing it's cooldown afterwards. You can teach her a little about resource management that way. In-between powerful breaths, she'll need to use her invocations and disruption to stay at her best. You could give her humanoid shape and prepare some fun forms for her to change into. Otherwise, use stuff like invisibility and chilling fog. If you're playing at a low level, maybe just have her throw flasks of oil at bad guys to improve her fire breath when it comes back up. There are also flasks of acid. Since she seems interested in that element, maybe you could give her some stronger acid flasks to work with. Splash weapons are actually pretty fun to use, too. Best of luck.

[H_H_F_F]

Agreed on DFA - but if she wants more diversity, ir more complicated gameplay, a Dragonbron (heart) sorcerer could do what she wants, too. Picking spells is more overwhelming than picking invocations, though.

[thethird]

Go with the dragonfire adept levels, it should be easy to understand. There is clinging breath too, which is a feat that she probably can see use in.

[Beni-Kujaku]

As the other ones, agreed on DFA. H_H_F_F's sorcerer is also a really good pick, if you suspect she would want to diversify her abilities later.

I would also suggest just letting her play a Steel Dragon (https://web.archive.org/web/20150915065928/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a), updated in Dragons of Faerun (probably with the LA waived and the ability to breathe fire instead of acid, but replacing Polymorph by a Silver dragon's Alternate Form). In a regular day, she walks around as a human sorcerer (much weaker in offense, but quite unbreakable with higher SR, HP and saves), and can change into her dragon form to fly and breathe if need be. She can advance by taking true dragon RHDs (+1 natural armor per RHD on top of the regular Dragon-type RHD benefits, and advance an age category every three levels), or simply by gaining sorcerer levels.

Edit: oh yeah, and I agree that Metaphysical Spellshaper might be a bit much for a 10yo, not only because of the book it comes from, but because choosing for each spell if it is going to be metamagicked, and taking ability damage for it is a bit too much bookkeeping, I'd wager.

[loky1109]

You really should, it's a super fun class. If you haven't looked at them yet, check out the Metabreath feats.

Go with the dragonfire adept levels, it should be easy to understand. There is clinging breath too, which is a feat that she probably can see use in.
DFA doesn't qualify for Metabreath feats.

[Olive_Sophia]

The usual approach is to qualify for the feats by being a Dragonborn, or otherwise by applying the feat Power Surge to their breath first. Those methods are pretty solid arguments for entry.

[Chronos]

Or by just letting them work by DM fiat, which sounds like it might be an option here.

A DFA's first feat, though, should be Entangling Exhalation. Not only does it give you the option for a decent status condition at will, but at low levels it actually increases your total damage output.

For her first invocation, is she going to be in a party, or solo? If a party, then I would recommend Endure Exposure, mostly for the secondary effect: Cast it on all your party members, and they're now immune to your breath. This makes it much easier to aim your breath without having to worry about friendly fire. Otherwise, Beguiling Influence, Breath of the Night, or Magic Insight are solid options for Leasts.

For her two lessers, the first will obviously be Draconic Flight, since that's one of the specific items on her wish-list. For the other, good choices include Humanoid Shape, Charm, Walk Unseen, or Frightful Presence.

[Darg]

Hi,

She wants to have a breath that throws fire and acid. She wants to fly and eventually teleport. She wants to pitch lightning with her hands.

So I was thinking about making her a wizard as her first character but I never used breath weapons or spells using breath so don't know if there are race, template or feat that make a good combo.

My mind tell me Dragonblood subtype could be good with that but I have no idea if it's good. I have memories of sorcerer wanthing Dragonblood subtype.

I don't know if it's better than a wizard. She'll always use the same spells since it's her first character.

Do you have ideas or advices?

Sorcerer. You don't need the dragonblood subtype if you don't want it. It's main benefits are to simply grant you access to some 1st level feats. As a sorcerer you have two options for dragon breath: the draconic breath heritage feat in CArc or the dragon breath spell from Draconomicon/SpC. With the former you have an easy on demand breath and the latter is usable with the energy admixture metamagic feat, granting the combo of fire and acid. As a sorcerer is an arcane caster, they get access to lightning bolt which shoots out of the hand. And unlike dragonfire adept they get access to dimension door/teleport spells (DfA needs a web feat that is only gotten at level 18 to grab warlock's flee the scene invocation for a teleport like option.) Sorcerer also has the choice between overland flight and dragon flight (draconomicon) spells for flying options (no wings vs yes wings).

[pabelfly]

Sorcerer. You don't need the dragonblood subtype if you don't want it. It's main benefits are to simply grant you access to some 1st level feats.

Dragonblood subtype is great to qualify for the Practical Metamagic feat, which is one of the best metamagic cost-reducing feats in the game, besides Arcane Thesis and Easy Metamagic (Dragon Magazine). It's so good that if you're a Sorcerer, it should be a serious contender for automatic selection unless you have a specific build you want to make where Dragonblood Subtype doesn't fit.

[AsuraKyoko]

I dunno if you should be using BoEF with a 10 year old, just saying.

There's a few things in the book that is all-age appropriate (like the aforementioned Metaphysical Spellshaper), but I wouldn't use anything aside from those few things in a game with a 10 year old, yeah.


You really should, it's a super fun class. If you haven't looked at them yet, check out the Metabreath feats. They essentially let you make your breath stronger by increasing it's cooldown afterwards. You can teach her a little about resource management that way. In-between powerful breaths, she'll need to use her invocations and disruption to stay at her best. You could give her humanoid shape and prepare some fun forms for her to change into. Otherwise, use stuff like invisibility and chilling fog. If you're playing at a low level, maybe just have her throw flasks of oil at bad guys to improve her fire breath when it comes back up. There are also flasks of acid. Since she seems interested in that element, maybe you could give her some stronger acid flasks to work with. Splash weapons are actually pretty fun to use, too. Best of luck.

I wouldn't suggest having a 10 year old start out using metabreath feats. Maybe after several levels give her one if she's already started to grok the system, but there's honestly a lot going on with D&D already, so it can be pretty complex to run even a very basic character.

As a side note, I would err on the side of permissive if she tries to do unconventional things with her abilities. For example, if she wants to use both acid and fire at the same time, just let her do it (and, in that case, have the damage only be affected by one of the resistances to those types, if the enemy resists both). That's exactly the sort of creativity that we want to encourage, and can be really cool and empowering for a kid. Conversely, being told "no" whenever you try to do something weird is the sort of thing that kills interest in the game fast.

EDIT:

Oh, and regarding shooting Lightning from her hands, just give her the lightning breath invocation and refluff it. You can also differentiate between breathing fire/acid and shooting lightning by having breath weapons be cones, and having shooting lightning from her hands as a line.

[Chronos]

Yeah, you can do all of this with wizard or sorcerer, but the list of what she wants pretty much exactly matches up to Dragonfire Adept, which also has the advantage of being a really easy class for a new player to learn. Seldom does one find such a perfect match between question and answer.

[Darg]

Yeah, you can do all of this with wizard or sorcerer, but the list of what she wants pretty much exactly matches up to Dragonfire Adept, which also has the advantage of being a really easy class for a new player to learn. Seldom does one find such a perfect match between question and answer.

Still doesn't have a teleport until level 18 using a web feat.

[pabelfly]

Still doesn't have a teleport until level 18 using a web feat.

You can use items to teleport though.

[Troacctid]

Or feats. Shape Soulmeld (Blink Shirt) gives a 10-foot teleport at will. Least/Lesser/Greater Dragonmark of Passage gives you various forms of teleportation a number of times per day (boostable with items and other feats). Fey Legacy gives you dimension door.

[Gruftzwerg]

Still doesn't have a teleport until level 18 using a web feat.
You can use items to teleport though.

To add on this, Dragonfire Adept have UMD as class skill. For the few occasion where you need teleport this should be enough. (unless she wants to spam teleport).

[Darg]

You can use items to teleport though.


Or feats. Shape Soulmeld (Blink Shirt) gives a 10-foot teleport at will. Least/Lesser/Greater Dragonmark of Passage gives you various forms of teleportation a number of times per day (boostable with items and other feats). Fey Legacy gives you dimension door.

And maybe they are fine with that. Doesn't mean the character is actually doing something under their own class power rather than relying on alternative means. DfA just simply doesn't check all of the boxes and it's necessary to actually point it out so a path forward can be planned for to compensate.

[vasilidor]

Spheres of power.
Acid breath? Nature sphere (plant geomancy) and dragon lung.
Teleport?
Warp Sphere.
Flight?
Alteration Sphere, second talent that grants wings - there is more than one.
Throwing Lightning?
Destruction Sphere, Lightning based damage talents.
None of it is locked behind levels, any of the classes can use them but some are better at using some spheres than others.

[Asmotherion]

Dragonfire Adept +1

[Berenger]

She wants to have a breath that throws fire and acid. She wants to fly and eventually teleport. She wants to pitch lightning with her hands.

If you are interested, I happen to have a build for a kobold sorceress lying around. She starts with gliding wings and a breath weapon.

Zavah

CG Female Kobold Sorcerer* 1
*Dragonblooded Sorcerer Racial Substitution Levels

STR 04
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16

BAB +0
Melee -4
Ranged +4
Grapple: -8

Hit Points: 5
Armor Class: 14
Initiative: +3

Fort +1 (+2 vs. Fire Effects)
Refl +3 (+2 vs. Fire Effects)
Will +2 (+2 vs. Fire Effects)

Feats: Dragonwrought, Dragon Wings, Draconic Heritage (Brass), Draconic Breath
Flaws: Noncombatant, Vulnerable
Special: Arcane Insight +2
Racial: Darkvision 60, Low-Light Vision, Small Size, Immunity to Sleep, Immunity to Paralysis
Speed: 30 Feet, 30 Feet Gliding

Cantrips Known: Daze, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation.
1st-Level Spells Known: Color Spray, Mage Armor.

Spells per Day: 5x Cantrips, 4x 1st-Level

Bluff 1+3 = 4
Gather Info 1+3+2 = 6
*Jump 0-3+10 = 7
K: Arcana 2+0 = 2
P: Dance 1+3 = 4
Spellcraft 2+0+2 = 4

Languages: Common, Draconic

https://abload.de/img/premiumkoboldfemale1wvk7r.jpg