PDA

View Full Version : Master of Utility



Squash63
2023-06-23, 06:41 AM
I enjoy building characters and looking for fun synergies and tricks they can pull. Unfortunately, most advice on building characters focus on combat or they have one or two particular combos they are built for and everything else doesn’t factor in much. I’ve seen DPS, tank, healing, skill monkey, and face builds but I want to see what people can do for utility.

I know “pick bard/wizard/druid and pick good spells” or “utility is up to how creative the player is” will be the popular opinions, but that isn’t what I’m looking for.

What I would like to see is builds that give as many options for fixing any problems as possible. Assume the campaign will have a minimum amount of combat. Any and all skill/tool proficiencies are on equal footing. No requirements for multiclassing or feats.

Let’s see what you can come up with.

Frogreaver
2023-06-23, 09:21 AM
You say different skills should be valued the same. How about skill bonuses. Should we consider a +1 bonus to stealth as providing more utility than a +0? Is that considered to be the same level of utility as a spell like feather fall or less? How do we compare that to a mechanic like bardic inspiration that is limited but can potentially impact any skill?

Joe the Rat
2023-06-23, 09:39 AM
I'm picturing a lot of mileage from Mastermind Rogue / Knowledge Cleric, but that's also because sometimes utility is helping everyone else do their jobs well.

Rogue has a lot of skill options, so it comes down to what is most relevant. I go Mastermind because you can help two people. or help someone next to you while you do your own damn work. For example, Stealth checks. KC can be proficient in anything you need with a little foreknowledge.

Mastikator
2023-06-23, 10:09 AM
Any flying race and artificer. Being able to fly is an enormous amount of utility. Artificers have utility up the wazzoo.

Melil12
2023-06-23, 10:24 AM
Really it’s just how you decided to take your actions and play style.

I had a mercy monk support last game that was fun. Stun enemies … heal Allie’s … mobile

Battle smith artificer the game before … magic items … strong defense buffs with pet and class abilities …. Crafting potions.

Unoriginal
2023-06-23, 10:32 AM
I enjoy building characters and looking for fun synergies and tricks they can pull. Unfortunately, most advice on building characters focus on combat or they have one or two particular combos they are built for and everything else doesn’t factor in much. I’ve seen DPS, tank, healing, skill monkey, and face builds but I want to see what people can do for utility.

I know “pick bard/wizard/druid and pick good spells” or “utility is up to how creative the player is” will be the popular opinions, but that isn’t what I’m looking for.

What I would like to see is builds that give as many options for fixing any problems as possible. Assume the campaign will have a minimum amount of combat. Any and all skill/tool proficiencies are on equal footing. No requirements for multiclassing or feats.

Let’s see what you can come up with.

Dream Druid/Creation Bard.

You should have what is typically called "Utility" for everything. Skills, items, transportation, sustenance, shelter... even things like stealth and healing.

And you can go arpund acting like Tom Bombadil, too.

stoutstien
2023-06-23, 11:50 AM
I love artificer for this but the sheer open ended options if a creation bard is unmatched. You are limited only by your imagination and the quality of snacks you bring the GM.

Just don't cheese it.

kazaryu
2023-06-23, 11:57 AM
I enjoy building characters and looking for fun synergies and tricks they can pull. Unfortunately, most advice on building characters focus on combat or they have one or two particular combos they are built for and everything else doesn’t factor in much. I’ve seen DPS, tank, healing, skill monkey, and face builds but I want to see what people can do for utility.

I know “pick bard/wizard/druid and pick good spells” or “utility is up to how creative the player is” will be the popular opinions, but that isn’t what I’m looking for.

What I would like to see is builds that give as many options for fixing any problems as possible. Assume the campaign will have a minimum amount of combat. Any and all skill/tool proficiencies are on equal footing. No requirements for multiclassing or feats.

Let’s see what you can come up with.

I have thought about this a decent amount. my premier idea (that ims till looking for a game to try it out in) would basically be any combination of 4 levels in each of 5 full caster classes. probably the overall best from a utility standpoint would be:
warlock 4, sorcerer 4, cleric 4, druid 4, wizard 4.

warlocks levels are mostly for EB/AB. (so you at least have a viable option in combat) but you can instead spend your invocations on utiltiy things if you want: aspect of the moon, beast speech, beguiling influence, devils sight, eyes of the rune keeper, gaze of two minds, mask of many faces, etc. there are plenty of utility options in there, some of them unique to the warlock. then of course the short rest spells slots can give you many extra castings of your low level spells...depending on your group.

sorcerer levels gets you flexible spell casting with your metamagic. things like subtle spell and quicken spell probably provide the most for a utiltiy focuses character.

druids wildshape, by itself, comes with a bunch of utility

other than that subclass can be chosen based on what king of utility you want.
GOOlock lets you talk even in wildshape. celestial lock gives you a non spell BA ranged heal. so you can yoyo while using your action to cast a full spell. enchanting wizard gets you an indefinite CC (albeit with limitations) knowledge/nature cleric gives some extra skill proficiencies, with knowledge specifically giving you a floating proficiency, the list goes on.

but the real core of the build is you have a huge variety of spells available...4+int wizard (not counting rituals) and ~12-14+2x wis across the druid/cleric levels just in prepared spells. meaning that many of those can be changed out. this isn't to mention all of the cantrips you can know, and the spells you get from the warlock/sorcerer levels. the idea being that you can have most if not all of the low level utility spells prepared. all the detects, and things like knock (may as well throw in silence too just in case) invisibility, pass without trace, etc, etc. just...so many utility options

Ganryu
2023-06-23, 12:08 PM
Lore bard, pick up a Tasha's summon spell and counterspell. Bard spells cover utility, and healing, your summon handles dps and tanking, and distraction.

Pick NON-variant human. Assign 13 in every stat but constitution {10}. You now have +2 in every skill, plus jack of all trades, meaning minimum +5 at lvl 17, even if you aren't proficient.

Btw, you're proficient in 9 different skill proficiencies, so half of them.

Jack of all trades includes initiative and counterspell btw.

You might not be best at everything, but, there's nothing you're poor at, and can fill every role.

JNAProductions
2023-06-23, 01:20 PM
Lore bard, pick up a Tasha's summon spell and counterspell. Bard spells cover utility, and healing, your summon handles dps and tanking, and distraction.

Pick NON-variant human. Assign 13 in every stat but constitution {10}. You now have +2 in every skill, plus jack of all trades, meaning minimum +5 at lvl 17, even if you aren't proficient.

Btw, you're proficient in 9 different skill proficiencies, so half of them.

Jack of all trades includes initiative and counterspell btw.

You might not be best at everything, but, there's nothing you're poor at, and can fill every role.

Nothing you’re bad at, except surviving.
Constitution 10 is not good for adventuring.

Ganryu
2023-06-23, 01:50 PM
Nothing you’re bad at, except surviving.
Constitution 10 is not good for adventuring.

Oh no. If only I didn't have a summon that slows enemy speed to take hits for me, possible expertise perception to avoid being ambushed, possible expertise stealth, at the very least good investigation, at the very least good insight, bonus to my initiative rolls, dimension door, several illusion spells, ranged spells, and enough tactical wit to avoid the front line.

At that point... if I get hit, it's my own dang fault. If I trigger a trap, the build's not working. And if I do... I have healing as long as it doesn't one shot me and song of rest. Not... really worried about health on this build.

Mastikator
2023-06-23, 02:17 PM
Nothing you’re bad at, except surviving.
Constitution 10 is not good for adventuring.

To be fair, OP did stipulate low-combat campaign.

JNAProductions
2023-06-23, 02:25 PM
To be fair, OP did stipulate low-combat campaign.

Fair point, well made.

Melil12
2023-06-23, 02:38 PM
Magic initiate: … guidance.

Profit

LibraryOgre
2023-06-23, 03:39 PM
What I would like to see is builds that give as many options for fixing any problems as possible. Assume the campaign will have a minimum amount of combat. Any and all skill/tool proficiencies are on equal footing. No requirements for multiclassing or feats.


To my mind, making a good utility character means making someone who can do most of anything. Your first look should be a half-elf rogue, but bards a very strong contender because of their spells and Jack of All Trades. They also have a comparable number of skills, and College of Lore gets you even more.

A a half-elf, you get 2 extra skills to give you a broader base of problem solving abilities. You start with 3 languages, instead of everyone else's 2. Halflings, with their Lucky trait, get close to this, but I'd skill go with the 2 extra skills and 1 extra language. Plus: Half-elves get a total of +4 to attributes. You'll want a good spread on your attributes, slightly favoring Charisma if you're a bard. I'd go with:

S 12
D 13
C 12
I 14 (13+1)
W 14 (13+1)
Ch 14 (12+2)

This gives you a +1 in most skills, and a +2 in the attributes with the most skills... except Dex, which you'll want to increase later.

As a half-elf rogue, you've got a lot of skills (8, when you factor in the 2 from your background), and you'll get expertise in 4 skills. You can get a similar number of skills by going with a Knowledge cleric, but they only have the option for Expertise with 2 knowledge skills. Additionally, at level 11, you'll get Reliable Talent, meaning all of your rolls for skills are going to be 10 or higher.

For subclasses, I'd suggest Inquisitive or Mastermind; Inquisitives get a lesser version of Reliable Talent early (only for Insight, and only up to 8, instead of 10), and can very quickly (bonus actions) find information in their immediate area. Masterminds pick up several more tool proficiencies, and some more languages. They are also quite good at helping others; Help as a Bonus action means you better leverage your allies and their abilities, even in tense situations (i.e. you can Help your mage figure something out, even while keeping the bad guys off his back). For a bard? Lore. Extra skills, broader base of spells. No Reliable talent on bard is going to hurt you in the long run, but there's compensations, later.

For background, there's a lot of good options, but I'd mostly focus on features... what are ones that are going to give you access to resources? I'd lean towards Courtier, Criminal, Noble, or Urchin... they all get you access to people who know and the ways to act on things.

I know you say you don't want feats, but if you can work out how to get Guidance, it's awesome for this build... an extra d4 on anything you can take an extra standard action on.

So, if we go Mastermind, we look like this:
Half elf (base) Rogue (Mastermind)

S 12
D 13
C 12
I 14 (13+1)
W 14 (13+1)
Ch 14 (12+2)

As we level, our first attribute bonus will be to Dexterity (and one other, or +2 to dexterity, or a half-feat with a +1 to Dexterity). Then we want to go with Int, Wisdom, and Charisma, in some order. Since we're talking low combat, strength and constitution can be somewhat sacrificed; it's good to have a bonus, and Athletics covers some of our Strength deficiencies, but we don't NEED them.

Background: Courtier

Skills: Athletics, Investigation, Perception, Sleight of Hand (Rogue) History, Arcana (half-elf), Insight, Persuasion (Courtier). Expertise will likely go to Perception and Insight, then Persuasion and Investigation... knowing things and getting others to do them.

Proficiencies: Thieves Tools

Languages: Common, Elven, Orcish, Dwarven, Goblin (languages with broad applicability)

-----

Other Option: Lore Bard

Half-elf (Base) Bard (Lore)

S 12
D 13
C 12
I 14 (13+1)
W 14 (13+1)
Ch 14 (12+2)

As we level, our first attribute bonus will be to Dexterity (and one other, or +2 to dexterity, or a half-feat with a +1 to Dexterity). After that, though, we should probably go pure Charisma, to leverage our bardic abilities. Since we don't get Reliable Talent, we're going to really like Peerless Skill at 14th level.

Background: Courtier

Skills: Investigation, Perception, Sleight of Hand (Rogue) History, Arcana (half-elf), Insight, Persuasion (Courtier). Expertise will likely go to Perception and Insight, then Persuasion and Investigation... knowing things and getting others to do them. Since we have 1 less skill choice than a rogue, we drop Athletics; Jack of all trades will have to cover that. When we get Lore bard, we'll pick up Animal Handling, Medicine, and Survival... skills that we don't have a lot of.

Proficiencies: Three musical instruments.

Languages: Common, Elven, Orcish, Dwarven, Goblin (languages with broad applicability)

Now, spells for our bard. Not gonna pick all of them, but here are some stand-outs:

Cantrips
Friends (while short, with drawbacks, sometimes all you need is that little bit of time)
Mending
Message

1st
Charm Person
Comprehend Languages (rit)
Disguise Self
Illusory Script
Speak with Animals (rit)
Unseen Servant (rit)

2nd
Calm Emotions
Detect Thoughts
Enhance Ability
Lesser Restoration
Locate Animals or Plants
Phantasmal Force
Locate Object
See Invisibility
Skywrite
Suggestion
Zone of Truth

3rd
Catnap
Clairvoyance
Dispel Magic
Nondetection
Sending
Speak with Dead
Speak with Plants
Tongues

4th
Charm Monster
Freedom of Movement
Locate Creatures

Stand-outs for secrets include
Guidance
Goodberry (lots of problems are solved by "Hey, we can eat well")
Purify Food and Drink
Animal Messenger
Augury

(and now I'm kind of tired of poring through sources to find stuff, so will stop).

The emphasis on the spells is to
a) make the character themselves better at doing things
b) make others better at doing things
c) make others do things

Keravath
2023-06-23, 04:13 PM
There are some builds that provide a lot of utility from both spells and skills.

The simplest is a 1 knowledge cleric/ X lore bard - variant human with the skilled feat at level 1 (12 proficient skills with expertise in 6).

If you want an even greater skills focus then tabaxi 1 rogue/ 1 knowledge cleric / X lore bard with the skilled feat at level 4 will end up with expertise in 8 skills and proficiency in 17/18 skills (the variant human would be 16/18 but gets skilled at level 1). In addition, the character is only two levels behind a straight lore bard in terms of spell casting utility. The bard also gets 1/2 proficiency in the skills they miss.

There are other builds that can get more skills but require more than a 1 level dip in most cases so they come together a bit later and may not be as effective in other aspects. The 1 knowledge cleric/X bard is both effective as a caster AND with skills from early on.

Kane0
2023-06-23, 05:24 PM
I'm picturing a lot of mileage from Mastermind Rogue / Knowledge Cleric

I'm disappointed in you :P

Warlock always comes to mind, especially a Tomelock with Celestial (healing), Fathomless (control) or Genie (shelter) patron. You can pick up all sorts of cantrips and rituals plus you're a Cha based class with the option of picking up extra cha skills, at-will disguises and illusions and a famously reliable attack with little investment. Plus you can tailor most of your choices to your level and party.

animorte
2023-06-24, 04:48 AM
You are limited only by your imagination and the quality of snacks you bring the GM.
The truth has been spoken.

I'm disappointed in you :P
Haha, I know! It's ok, we stood up for the sig (which is honestly one of my favorites because I feel the same way). :smallbiggrin:

Anyway... Knowledge Cleric is difficult to beat, as with the Celestial Generalist. Pretty much any Druid or Bard. Thri-Kreen Fey Wanderer Ranger is a very interesting and effective alternative.

My personal favorite: My Cantripologist starting with VHuman for Magic Initiate (or any cantrip-giving race), one level of Sorcerer (subclass doesn't really matter). Celestial Warlock, Pact of the Tome. Next level, take another cantrip-gifting feat. Then whatever you want (including more multi-classing). At this point, there's 11-14 cantrips, depending on what you have available. You can have one for just about every save/damage type or every utility cantrip worth having, and of course some combination there-of.

It leaves plenty of room for build choice otherwise and it's extremely satisfying to always have an at-will answer without much thought. Sure, you can solve problems with fewer options and a great deal of creativity, but where's the fun in that? :smalltongue:

NecessaryWeevil
2023-06-24, 03:12 PM
Lore bard, pick up a Tasha's summon spell and counterspell. Bard spells cover utility, and healing, your summon handles dps and tanking, and distraction.

Pick NON-variant human. Assign 13 in every stat but constitution {10}. You now have +2 in every skill, plus jack of all trades, meaning minimum +5 at lvl 17, even if you aren't proficient.

Btw, you're proficient in 9 different skill proficiencies, so half of them.

Jack of all trades includes initiative and counterspell btw.

You might not be best at everything, but, there's nothing you're poor at, and can fill every role.

Gonna try this out in a one-shot today!

RogueJK
2023-06-24, 06:30 PM
A Creation Bard with the Ritual Caster Wizard feat and a bunch of skill proficiencies/expertise is going to be pretty tough to beat for overall utility.

A Celestial Tomelock can have a ton of utility as well, via healing, utility spells, and access to all ritual spells from all classes.

A Dreams Druid with the Ritual Caster Wizard feat would also have a ton of utility, thanks to not only their wide variety of utility casting and abilities, but also Wild Shape.

Ganryu
2023-06-25, 01:29 AM
Gonna try this out in a one-shot today!

Let me know how it went, I've been wanting to try it forever, but never got around to it, also my DM's threatened my life if I try it as I've given him the build before (He's not a fan of skill monkeys in his games)

Zuras
2023-06-25, 01:36 AM
Creation Bard is super useful. At low levels being able to make whatever you need out of thin air is amazing, and at mid levels, animating random objects into dancing construct buddies is amazing. Definitely lots of leeway for creativity.

I’ve also played an Arcane Trickster/Knowledge Cleric multiclass that worked pretty well.

Either is reasonable for a low-combat campaign.

NecessaryWeevil
2023-06-25, 02:09 AM
Let me know how it went, I've been wanting to try it forever, but never got around to it, also my DM's threatened my life if I try it as I've given him the build before (He's not a fan of skill monkeys in his games)

Heh. Glad you're interested! Fortunately this was a pay-to-play game so I think for the DM killing his customers is discouraged. :)

It turned out to be not the best group to try it with as they were fairly well-balanced, with good amounts of healing and tanky characters, and a Celestial Warlock and a Rogue already bringing some utility. As the party size increases, the number of niches that need filling tend to decrease. I found myself wishing I had a Bless or something to contribute (we played at third level and I filled my lvl 1 spells known with rituals plus Healing Word). I tried to stay safe in combat but still got nearly one-shotted by a dangerous flying enemy. Combats definitely feel dangerous with this DM. That being said, my best contribution was probably Summon Beast. It did a pretty good job of tanking and injuring secondary threats. I also found a Luckstone almost right away - I certainly enjoyed having at least a +4 modifier for EVERY skill. If I keep playing this character I might consider multiclassing into Wizard, doubling down on Arcane utility, but real life commitments make my continuing presence in these one-shots doubtful.

Short version: I took it into a fast-paced, combat-heavy game with a party that didn't have any obvious holes in its composition, and it performed...adequately. I think it would be pretty fun in a setting and party composition where its versatility and utility were more needed, such as the OP described.

RazorChain
2023-06-25, 11:52 PM
The Mind Hack

Abberant Mind Sorcerer X/College of Eloquence Bard 6


Pick subtle spell and Twin spell as metamagic options

Take expertise in Persuade and Deception, now you can never roll less than 20 when you hit level 5. (if you have +4 in Charisma)

With Abberant mind you can cast detect thoughts and suggestion without anyone seeing or knowing what you are doing. if you don't have to rely on subterfuge you can use twinned suggestion for the targets to do your bidding.

On top of it all you can use unsettling words to give them penalty to their saves and as a backup have Silvery Barbs at the ready.

Now everybody is ready to tell you all their dirty secrets if you can't pry them out of their heads with detect thoughts. Or you can just send your enemies into a corner to take a timout while you kill their friends.

You want to get to level 6 as Bard to get the Universal speech so you can command everyone and everything with your suggestion spells.

Talionis
2023-06-27, 09:07 PM
I’ll suggest Borrowed Knowledge combined with Reliable Talent from the Rogue. I like getting Borrowed Talent from a Warlock since you can often recharge the non-combat use of the spell slot with a short rest before the next combat. This works well in a Swashbuckler Rogue who has Charisma and can make use of Face abilities like at will Disguise Self spells from invocations. You can have just enough Magic to get out of most situations, you’ll be decent in one on one combat and have the skill to get out and hide when you are overwhelmed.

RogueJK
2023-06-28, 09:05 AM
I’ll suggest Borrowed Knowledge combined with Reliable Talent from the Rogue. I like getting Borrowed Talent from a Warlock since you can often recharge the non-combat use of the spell slot with a short rest before the next combat. This works well in a Swashbuckler Rogue who has Charisma and can make use of Face abilities like at will Disguise Self spells from invocations. You can have just enough Magic to get out of most situations, you’ll be decent in one on one combat and have the skill to get out and hide when you are overwhelmed.

Nifty combo, but wouldn't come online until Character Level 14 at the earliest (Rogue 11/Warlock 3).

kingcheesepants
2023-06-30, 02:18 AM
If you're counting tool proficiencies as something valuable in a utility build (as OP said they were) than any such build needs at least 6 levels in Artificer in order to pick up tool expertise. Especially since Artificers can get an all purpose tool and have proficiency in every artisan's tool. Do that and then the rest in Creation Bard (as others have noted it's quite good in the utility front and they coincidentally get their best ability at 14, so we have just enough room for it).

Kenny_Snoggins
2023-07-05, 01:56 PM
The Mind Hack

Abberant Mind Sorcerer X/College of Eloquence Bard 6




I think Eloquence bard is the way to go also, beating out Lore bard. However I would multiclass with Hexblade instead of Sorceror. Low combat isn't no-combat and if it's social heavy or low-combat in general I find those are the situations where the Bard is likely going to be taking damage early, and possibly be cut off or out of position from the rest of the party (IE you failed a deception check you really should have passed).

If you have a permissive DM and want to have a high-power game, I think feats are actually more important than subclass, although I would still recommend Eloquence Bard because it's an 'I win' button for the social pillar. No language barriers, you basically can't fail social checks, hell you can basically not do anything but succeed with a ~20 modified social check on a nat 1 generally. Lucky, and Adept of the Red Robes and silvery barbs typically means you can just power through skill checks you're not necessarily great at through sheer weight of rerolls and dice manipulation.

Cartomancer is a BLAST on Bards although you'll have to work out how to incorporate that with your DM since the original writing is really poor and can let you get a 52-slot ring of spell storing if not put in check. But a high-stakes gambler bard who can magically manipulate cards without any obvious tells or casting? You love to see it. It's more fun than even the combat application of cartomancer and you can really build a character concept around a bard who cheats at cards, rarely gets caught, and can typically talk himself out of it if he does. Or draw the last card in the deck and make your head explode if that fails.

I also like Dhampir for this concept since you have spider climb to help out the Rogue on B&E type situations and you can pop a juicebox and drain something if you need a little ooomph on a skill check. A charming, cheating gambler with persuasion bordering on mind-control that might, uh oh, be coming down with a touch of vampirism? That's so fun. It also helps keep your bonkers persuasion in check for the DM, since there can be a side plot about people finding out your true nature and you have to be careful who you burn, since the witch hunters are around the corner.

More mechanically, specc into dice manipulation feats as I mentioned, Dhampir, Eloquence bard X Hexblade 1 (remember you can hex someone's wisdom so they are even weaker at insight checks against you) Make sure to pick up Find Greater Steed for one of the best utility spells in the game, consider Telekinetic if you don't have an arcane trickster, and then try to score the utility magic items-- headband of intellect is great, gloves of thievery make your cartomancer sleights almost mechanically impossible to spot, ring of spell storing lets you subtle cast spells stored in it RAW, and never forget a strength 8 bard with gauntlets of ogre power and expertise athletics can be one of the most physically powerful characters in the game if you want to roll that way with it. Hat of disguise would be a good shout also.

Clause
2023-08-05, 04:00 PM
A hobgoblin of feywild, divine soul sorcerer/bard. Will NEVER fail in anythings, except by natural 1's.
Bard inspiration+bless+protected by the gods+bonus equal at number of allies(max 5). Is great. And if you take the martial adept feat, you can add, the bonus to social and fisical skills, with the correct manuevers.

JNAProductions
2023-08-05, 04:03 PM
A hobgoblin of feywild, divine soul sorcerer/bard. Will NEVER fail in anythings, except by natural 1's.
Bard inspiration+bless+protected by the gods+bonus equal at number of allies(max 5). Is great. And if you take the martial adept feat, you can add, the bonus to social and fisical skills, with the correct manuevers.

Natural 1s don't fail saves or checks, only attack rolls.

But that's a LOT of resources to spend on one check, including some things that you have to precast. Bless doesn't work on checks, though.

RogueJK
2023-08-05, 05:54 PM
Bless doesn't work on checks, though.

Neither does Favored of the Gods. Both are for attack rolls and saves only, not skill checks.

If you're wanting to stack a bunch of bonuses for skill checks, you'll need to look to other stuff like Guidance and Peace Cleric's Emboldening Bond.

Something more like a Hobgoblin Peace Cleric 2/Creation Bard X can stack their skill checks with a whole slew of things like Proficiency/Expertise/Jack of All Trades, plus Guidance, plus Emboldening Bond, plus Fortune of the Many, plus the Enhance Ability spell, plus Bardic Inspiration (with Creation Bard's Mote of Potential ability giving "advantage" on that BI roll).

Clause
2023-08-05, 10:05 PM
Neither does Favored of the Gods. Both are for attack rolls and saves only, not skill checks.

If you're wanting to stack a bunch of bonuses for skill checks, you'll need to look to other stuff like Guidance and Peace Cleric's Emboldening Bond.

Something more like a Hobgoblin Peace Cleric 2/Creation Bard X can stack their skill checks with a whole slew of things Proficiency/Expertise/Jack of All Trades, plus Guidance, plus Emboldening Bond, plus Fortune of the Many, plus the Enhance Ability spell, plus Bardic Inspiration (with Creation Bard's Mote of Potential ability giving "advantage" on that BI roll).

The cleric spells can be casted by the divine soul because they have access to divine spells.
We can do something like peace cleric 1/ divine soul 3 and, bard 16. With martial adept feat, aberrant dragonmark feat, and a horn of walhalla. Things gonna be wild.
Ohh and the hobgoblin of the feywyld is mutch better

RogueJK
2023-08-05, 10:40 PM
Ohh and the hobgoblin of the feywyld is mutch better

Hobgoblin of the Feywild is not official content; it's UA material.

It was later released as the revamped Hobgoblin in Monsters of the Multiverse, with the same abilities, but they dropped the "of the Feywild" moniker.

Clause
2023-08-06, 04:00 PM
jack of all trades + fire rune?




also, a yuan ti, alchemist artifice 7 (Flash of Genius) + feywarden ranger 3. can make a true good face for the party.

JNAProductions
2023-08-06, 04:10 PM
jack of all trades + fire rune?

also, a yuan ti, alchemist artifice 7 (Flash of Genius) + feywarden ranger 3. can make a true good face for the party.

Yuan Ti already makes being a face hard, since you're a Yuan Ti.

And sure, you can add your Int (sometimes) and your Wis (always) to your Cha checks... But you're also MAD as all heck. Dex, Wis, and Int all have to be 13+, and you want the mental stats higher to really benefit from the features you list.

I'd like to see a build along those lines that can be better than a Bard 10 at being the face. Reminder: They'd have +13 (Charisma of 20 and Expertise) to their Charisma skill checks, +7 at the absolute worst, and can add Bardic Inspiration 5 times per Short Rest to add 1d10 to the roll.

RogueJK
2023-08-06, 08:57 PM
Exactly. Trying to shoehorn 7 levels of Artificer on to a Fey Wanderer Ranger (or vice versa) is going to be very tricky due to the MADness, and is not worth it at all just to gain about a +3 to a Face skill check around 3 times per day. (Since you're not going to be able to have INT and WIS and CHA all maxed at that point.)

That type of Artificer/Fey Wanderer Face character would want a high CHA, high INT, high WIS, decent DEX, and decent CON. That's just not going to happen, short of extreme luck while rolling for stats.


A Fey Wanderer Ranger 3/Eloquence Bard 7 would be a more reasonable Face build that stacks multiple stats, and even that is going to be a bit MAD, so you're likely only going to be able to max CHA by that point. But you'd be able to have Expertise on all 3 of the primary Face skills for an additional +4 to every single check (not just 3 or 4 per day), plus Silver Tongue means that you're never going to roll below a 10 on Persuasion or Deception.

Greywander
2023-08-09, 10:52 PM
I enjoy building characters and looking for fun synergies and tricks they can pull. Unfortunately, most advice on building characters focus on combat or they have one or two particular combos they are built for and everything else doesn’t factor in much. I’ve seen DPS, tank, healing, skill monkey, and face builds but I want to see what people can do for utility.

I know “pick bard/wizard/druid and pick good spells” or “utility is up to how creative the player is” will be the popular opinions, but that isn’t what I’m looking for.
A high level spellcaster is certainly one form of utility. There just isn't a good alternative to things like Plane Shift, Teleport, and a whole host of other mid to high level spells. They're very specific in what they do, but their effects are so powerful that they completely trivialize what would otherwise be impossible or nearly so. Imagine having to walk to a town on the other side of the planet instead of just casting Teleport. That's an entire campaign arc skipped.


What I would like to see is builds that give as many options for fixing any problems as possible. Assume the campaign will have a minimum amount of combat. Any and all skill/tool proficiencies are on equal footing. No requirements for multiclassing or feats.

Let’s see what you can come up with.
But it sounds like you're not looking for high powered solutions. Instead of something strong but niche, you want something weak but adaptable. And that takes a bit more thought. Yes, it requires some creativity, which is why it can be helpful to play a one-shot or mini-campaign where you only have one specific utility ability and have to use it to solve everything. The problem is that having too many tools makes it hard to see their full potential, but having only one tool insures you get as much out of it as you can. Once you've learned how to fully exploit a given tool on its own, then you can start combining tools together to find new ways to break the game.

If I go deep into the details then this post will become monumental, and I do have to get up early tomorrow for work, so I'll try to just highlight some good options. I have a special love for at-will abilities, as being at-will means you really can use them for everything instead of having to hold them in reserve until they're truly needed. So skills, tools, cantrips, at-will spellcasting, and resourceless features are all high on my list. You might have no way to replicate the effect of a Plane Shift, but you'll actually use Mold Earth far more often.

Ability Scores
The best way to get access to a lot of different utility features is to multiclass. Personally, I find the ability score requirements for multiclassing to be kind of dumb and I would handwave them, but your DM might choose to enforce them. If we're not worried about combat, then we can worry less about our ability scores and let our proficiency bonus and expertise make up the difference. One of valid ability score spreads is 13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12, and we can use our racial boosts to insure we have a 13 is all or almost all stats, thus allowing us to multiclass into anything. If you have to leave something at 12, figure out which classes you're dipping into and see if there's a particular stat you don't need. Ideally, it's better to use your racial ASIs to boost those 13s to 14s and leave the others at 12 if they're not needed for multiclassing.

Lizardfolk Dhampir
I want to focus on classes, but this is a notable racial option. Dhampir has a spiderclimb ability, which is great for accessing places that would normally be out of reach. Unlike a flying race, you can also use it in tight quarters, though YMMV on how strict your DM is with that kind of thing. Dhampir also gets darkvision and a slight speed bump. Ancestral Legacy gives you two extra skills, or you can pick what race you were before becoming a dhampir and keep any skills and move speeds it gave. (Technically, this only applies if you become a dhampir during play and not at character creation, but that's dumb.) Lizardfolk happens to also get two skills, albeit from a more restricted list (though with great options) and a swim speed. Use the MPMM lizardfolk so the swim speed matches your boosted walking speed. Unfortunately, you can't breathe underwater, but fortunately, dhampirs don't need to breathe. With this combination, you can pretty much go anywhere that isn't a floating island.

Warlock 3, Pact of the Chain
Warlock on it's own gets you access to a couple cantrips and some spells that are on a short rest cooldown, as well as invocations. Tome isn't a bad pact, but only if you intend to stick with warlock. If you're dipping out at 3 then Pact of the Chain is the way to go. There are just so many things you can do with an invisible flying familiar (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?571635-The-many-uses-of-an-imp-familiar). With the Genie patron, you can have your familiar carry your vessel places while you're inside, though this becomes a lot more useful when you can bring the whole party inside, which again requires sticking with warlock. Great Old One is generally considered a weaker patron, but this matters less if you're planning to dip out early, and it has one of the best telepathy abilities. Fathomless can also give you a swim speed and underwater breathing, if you didn't get those from another source like your race.

Knowledge Cleric 1
This one is well known, so I won't spend much time on it. A few cantrips, 1st level cleric spells, and two extra skills, with expertise. Also, armor and a shield, in the event combat does happen.

Echo Knight Fighter 3
You can resummon the echo as many times as you want, it has no resource cost. You can also trade places with the echo, allowing you to use it as a form of short range teleportation. Interestingly, the echo is not a creature, but an object, and thus isn't bound by normal movement rules. The feature says you can move it in any direction, which could mean making it fly or even having it move through walls, though YMMV on what your DM allows. Since you can swap places with it, then you can go anywhere it can. Flying is probably reasonable, but no-clipping through walls might be pushing it.

Rune Knight Fighter 3
Since you can train in tool proficiencies during downtime, the artificer's Tool Expertise can be pretty powerful. You can eventually gain proficiency with every tool and double your proficiency bonus with them. But while there's a lot to love about artificer, 6 levels is a pretty steep price. If only there was a way to get Tool Expertise with only a 3 level investment. Oh wait, there is. The Rune Knight's fire rune will give you that exact benefit three levels earlier (albeit with fewer baked in tool proficiencies; hope you have some downtime to burn). The stone rune stands out as a second rune pick, as it gives you 120 foot darkvision; great if your race didn't have darkvision, still good if you only had 60 foot darkvision.

Moon Druid 2
The ability to turn into animals is pretty useful. Your selection is somewhat limited if you dip out at 2, but the Circle of the Moon at least partially alleviates this. More cantrips and spells are always handy as well.

Rogue 3
Extra skills and expertise speak for themselves. Cunning Action is great should you find yourself in combat. Almost every rogue subclasses offer something right away that can boost your utility, even Assassin. I don't have time to go over them all, so just look and see what each one gives you at 3rd level. If you start as a rogue at 1st level, you'll get one more skill proficiency than if you dip into rogue later.

Lore Bard 3
Jack of All Trades is useful, even with so many proficiencies; not every ability check has an applicable proficiency, so this can be a way to add a partial proficiency bonus to things like initiative rolls or Constitution checks. More cantrips/spells is good, and so are more skills and expertise. I'm not well versed on some of the newer bard subclasses, so those might offer something comparable to Lore.

Sorcerer 1
I'll be honest, we're just here for the sorcerer's prodigious number of cantrips. You can never have too many cantrips. Standout subclasses are Aberrant Mind for telepathy and Shadow for darkvision.

Conjuration Wizard 2 or 3
Spells, cantrips, and such. Minor Conjuration allows you to basically create any small mundane object, and you can do this as many times as you want. The only real limitation is that you can't have two such objects conjured at the same time. But still, this ability is bonkers in the hands of a player who knows how to use it to its full potential. Wizards have an optional feature at 3rd level that allows them to swap out wizard cantrips, so if your DM allows that feature then it may be worth pushing to 3rd level. Otherwise, you can dip out at 2nd. And you might have more than enough cantrips anyway.

That's about all I've got for now. This thread is over a month old and the OP hasn't returned to it once, so I hope this thread isn't abandoned.

rel
2023-08-16, 02:19 AM
What I would like to see is builds that give as many options for fixing any problems as possible. Assume the campaign will have a minimum amount of combat. Any and all skill/tool proficiencies are on equal footing. No requirements for multiclassing or feats.

Let’s see what you can come up with.

No requirements for multiclassing or feats optional rules, I can get behind that!

A bard is a good pick for big boosts to the skill bonuses on ability checks, with added utility from spellcasting. Add a college that feeds into that like lore and you can generally contribute effectively.

A wizard can have a fair bit of utility with the right spell selections, and a tradition like divination or conjuration. If the challenge isn't under serious time pressure, the ability to take 10 minutes and ritual cast something appropriate is not to be underestimated.

tokek
2023-08-16, 02:53 AM
This is probably not the worlds most optimal thing but I think it would be fun with a lot of utility

Fairy Rogue/Soulknife

So you have some spells from being a Fairy and you get a ton of skills for being a Rogue - to which you can add psionic dice to really tip rolls into success. The big one is Psychic Whispers which is huge in any social or stealth situation - broadly equivalent to a spell Wizards get 6 levels later.

Skill Expert needs to be an early pick as you can only add your bonus dice if you have proficiency so lets broaden out what you have proficiency in as much as possible. A bonus D8 is a big deal and it doesn't even use a resource unless it is both needed and works.

Fly is one of the best racial features for utility. Enlarge/Reduce is an amazing utility spell when cast on objects but your ability to become tiny to squeeze into places should not be overlooked.

I would then start taking feats that grant spells. Low level spells have a lot of utility even if not so much combat power. Magic Initiate, Runecarver, Shadow Touched, Fey Touched, Ritual Caster all work for adding in some magical tricks.