How do you handle the Ritual Caster (Cleric) and Magic Initiate (Cleric) feat?

[Clistenes]

I guess if a Fighter, Rogue, Monk, Barbarian, Wizard or Sorcerer takes the feat, they are getting power from their patron deity, kinda becoming quasi-clerics... but what about Bards? They can mimic divine magic using their own bardic arcane magic... are they doing the same, mimicking clerical spells with their own bardic magic, when they take the Ritual Caster (Cleric) or Magic Initiate (Cleric) feat...?

What about Druids and Paladins? They have their own source of divine power... are they drawing power from that source when they use the Ritual Caster (Cleric) or Magic Initiate (Cleric) feats? Or do they need to get power from a deity...?

I know this is all up to the DM, and I know there is little reason for a Bard or Druid to waste an ability bonus taking these feats, but I am not asking if it's practical... I am just curious about how you would handle that...

Thank you very much in advance.

[Anymage]

You can fluff it however you like, but I assume the default answer would be that they draw power from an ideologically aligned divinity. There are nature gods, justice gods, and gods of music/happenstance/whatever drives your bard most likely, so it's not hard to imagine a character having just a bit of a relationship with a relevant god.

[Psyren]

My take:

Given that if you pick a class that isn't yours for Magic Initiate you can't use your slots to cast the spell it gives you, I don't think they come from the same source; i.e. if you're a Bard with MI (Cleric), you're not using your bardic magic to mimic divine magic - what you are is a bard who has dabbled into something less than a full cleric dip, like an acolyte. This also explains why your Cha matters for your bard spells but not for the cleric spell you picked up.

As for Ritual Caster - the feat itself gives training with ritual spells from the class you chose, which is why you can only add new rituals to your book if they match the training you originally got from the feat.

In short - in both cases, the casting you learn isn't tied to what you started with (unless of course you pick the same class you started with.)

[Monster Manuel]

It's a fluffy kind of situation: the rules don't really clarify where the power comes from or how divine magic "works", so it's up to the individual DM and group to decide the answer.

The way I usually run it is, even though it's not a rules question, I default to the rules to give guidance. In cases like the Magic Initiate and Ritual Caster feats, where the rules specifically say "pick a class, casting ability depends on what you pick", I play that as a spell that follows the rules of that class. If a bard picks Ritual Caster (cleric), then yes, there's a diety granting those spells. The bard may not even know which one, and there may be little impact in-game, but where it matters they are getting those rituals the same way a caster of the class-type they chose is getting them.

Note that this is definitely houserule territory: nowhere do the rules say "this is a Cleric spell", but I play it that way. Can cast with a Divine focus, etc. Just as it would have been if you had dipped a level of cleric and follow the cleric rules for the 1st level spells you have access to. You do Learn the spell and can cast it with spell slots, but as a Cleric spell, again, same as it would have been if you multiclassed. I am also extremely generous with "creative" overlap between types of foci to compensate (you drew a holy symbol at the top of your staff? Fine. You want your druid to use your mistletoe sprig as a wand to cast your Magic Initiate Wizard Shield spell? Go nuts).

In cases where the rules say "this is an X spell for you", like certain subclass abilities, and the bard's Magical Secrets, I play that differently. You're casting Cure Light Wounds, typically a cleric spell, but you're casting it as a bard so that spell effect is coming from the same place all your other bard spells are coming from. It looks like a cleric spell, but in all in-universe respects it's behaving as a bard spell (cast with an instrument as a focus, coming from "the music" rather than "a diety", etc).

Feats like Shadow-touched are a bit gray-er, since they aren't asking you to pick a class, but a specific spell, and you decide what attribute it applies to. I play this like I do with Magical Secrets, it's the type of spell you usually cast, regardless of what type the original spell was, and all in-universe detail follows what's appropriate for that type of spell.

[Trask]

You manage to enlarge the part of your brain that allows for the memorization of spells just enough to jam a few of them in there. Works for me! Power source seems mutable, after all Eldritch Knights and Arcane Trickster's learn wizard magic, but they dont carry spellbooks.

[Clistenes]

Thank you for your answers. Makes sense that, if they are using Wisdom as their casting stat, then it is a Cleric spell that is cast as a Cleric... didn't think of that...

[LibraryOgre]

I see a few different ways to handle it:

1) The character is some level of initiate into the religion. They're not a full Cleric, but they might be a priest or some other sort of functionary within the church; an artificer might be one of the people who makes holy symbols.

2) They have some natural connection with the religion. They may not be aasimar or tieflings, but they have some fraction of divine blood. They aren't worshiping anyone, just tapping into their natural talent.

3) They have a relationship with some minor semi-deity or spirit who grants them this limited amount of power. The God of Arepo smiles upon them... it's not much, but it's a couple cantrips and a single 1st level spell.

4) is specific to other divine characters, like Paladins. While they are [Paladins], they also have some little bit of extra part of the other class. Your Paladin is granted some divine Guidance with a moment's meditation, and can Stabilize the wounded, even if they don't fully Lay on Hands. Something like this can also apply to warlocks; their patron is semi-divine, and gives them this little bit extra.

[Chronos]

Keep in mind that even clerics themselves don't necessarily need a deity, or even a religion per se.

But yeah, however a cleric is doing it, the PC with Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster is doing it the same way. It's the same as if they had multiclassed into cleric, just not as much.

[Joe the Rat]

The few times it has come up, Ritual Magic is quite simply having the rituals, and the rituals call on the powers in their own laborious, not-channeling-magic-through-your-soul way. Just like the rituals performed by members of the class. It's the rituals themselves that bring the invoked power, the caster just directing it.

It's a bit of a pulpy take - anyone who does the specific things (the actions as well as the mental focus) makes the ritual happen - but that fits my running style. It's not as quite as simple as picking up the Ancient Metal Tome and saying the words, which is why being a trained caster (or burning the feat for the training) is needed. It also bridges the weird gap where acolytes in temples don't necessarily have magic, but are still performing services which should be more than just show. Here's a mechanic.

Magic initiate is a touch of X - you've learned a trick or three in the way of whomever you are initiate...ing? A dabbling of wizardry, a minor pact for a minor boon, etc. As another route to magic for Acolytes (and one they picked up in Playtest2024), this could be a minor granting of power from your deity, or it could be fueled by devotion and belief. Old-school, clerics cut off from their divinities could conceivably power 1st and 2nd level spells purely on faith. From a roleplay perspective you could require some sort of faith element for cleric (and druid) initiates. But that's a matter of taste - some folks may be happy with "I learned a bit of holy magic" and leave it at that.

[Psyren]

"Multiclass, but not as much" is a much more succinct version of what I was getting at.

[LibraryOgre]

"Multiclass, but not as much" is a much more succinct version of what I was getting at.

I like two of the three implementations of multiclassing in 5e... feats and subclasses.