Houserule test

[Kane0]

I'm curious, if I were to offer this alternative spell slot progression as an option for casters (other than warlock), how many of you would take it?

Level 1: 1x 1st/SR
Level 2: 2x 1st/SR
Level 3: 2x 1st/SR + 1x 2nd/LR
Level 4: 2x 1st/SR + 2x 2nd/LR
Level 5: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 3rd/LR
Level 6: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 3rd/LR
Level 7: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 4th/LR
Level 8: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 4th/LR
Level 9: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 5th/LR
Level 10: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 5th/LR
Level 11: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 6th/LR
Level 12: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 6th/LR
Level 13: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 7th/LR
Level 14: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 7th/LR
Level 15: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 8th/LR
Level 16: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 8th/LR
Level 17: 2x 5th/SR + 2x 9th/LR
Level 18: 3x 5th/SR + 2x 9th/LR
Level 19: 3x 5th/SR + 3x 9th/LR
Level 20: 4x 5th/SR + 3x 9th/LR

[Unoriginal]

I'm curious, if I were to offer this alternative spell slot progression as an option for casters (other than warlock), how many of you would take it?

Level 1: 1x 1st/SR
Level 2: 2x 1st/SR
Level 3: 2x 1st/SR + 1x 2nd/LR
Level 4: 2x 1st/SR + 2x 2nd/LR
Level 5: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 3rd/LR
Level 6: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 3rd/LR
Level 7: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 4th/LR
Level 8: 2x 2nd/SR + 2x 4th/LR
Level 9: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 5th/LR
Level 10: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 5th/LR
Level 11: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 6th/LR
Level 12: 2x 3rd/SR + 2x 6th/LR
Level 13: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 7th/LR
Level 14: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 7th/LR
Level 15: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 8th/LR
Level 16: 2x 4th/SR + 2x 8th/LR
Level 17: 2x 5th/SR + 2x 9th/LR
Level 18: 3x 5th/SR + 2x 9th/LR
Level 19: 3x 5th/SR + 3x 9th/LR
Level 20: 4x 5th/SR + 3x 9th/LR


I wouldn't.

Being only able to cast two spells of level 5 to 7 per long rest and only two spells of level 1 to 4 per short rests at lvl 14 is not a situation I want to be in.

Unless if it was a class that gave other abilities and the spells are just a side thing.

[Amnestic]

If it was universally applied to all full-casters (and an equivalent for half-casters) then sure, I'd be fine with that change.
If it was just an option then...probably not. If you can guarantee 2SR per day then it's about equivalent - at some levels it's better, some levels its worse. Rare is the day I see people getting 3SR, usually it's 0/1/2, so it'd be safer to just take standard spellcasting progression.

[Mastikator]

I wouldn't take it.

[GeneralVryth]

It obviously depends on the number of short rests the party gets on average. Most of the time it likely isn't worth it. Also, this setup takes away some of the variety of having many different slot levels that full casters usually have.

I thought up a variation of this awhile ago for when I built NPCs (to avoid a full caster burning a full days worth of spells in one battle if played optimally), thoguht if you convert to spell points and compare it's pretty similar to the full caster progression if you have 2 short rests in a day:

Short Spell
Slots

Short Short Short Short Short Long Long Long Long
Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1 1 0
2 1 2
3 1 1 2
4 1 1 3
5 1 1 1 3
6 1 1 1 5
7 1 1 1 1 5
8 1 1 1 1 6
9 1 1 1 1 1 6
10 1 1 1 1 1 7
11 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
12 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
13 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
14 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
15 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
16 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
17 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
18 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7
19 1 1 1 1 1 1* 1 1 1 9
20 1 1 1 1 1 1* 1* 1 1 10

* One of thse slots can be recovered on a short rest.

EDIT: I would also add that 3x 9th level slots at high level is also likely quite a bit more powerful, than 1 7/8/9.

[Skrum]

Definitely not. This would only be superior with like 3-4 SR, and even then, the slots are forcibly "rationed" across those rests.

I've played a lot of warlock. I know better than to fall for this one lol.

On the other hand, this would be a great way to limit casters and possibly bring them more in line with other classes. Not just in power but in rest schedule as well. Theoretically, all classes hewing towards short rests would be pretty cool.

[OldTrees1]

Assuming 1.5 SR, 1/SR=2.5/LR

SRLR
Level 1:+0.5 1st
Level 2:+2 1st
Level 3:+1 1st -1 2nd
Level 4:+1 1st-1 2nd
Level 5:-4 1st +2 2nd
Level 6:-4 1st +2 2nd-1 3rd
Level 7:-4 1st +2 2nd-3 3rd +1 4th
Level 8:-4 1st +2 2nd-3 3rd
Level 9:-4 1st -3 2nd +2 3rd-3 4th +1 5th
Level 10:-4 1st -3 2nd +2 3rd-3 4th
Level 11:-4 1st -3 2nd +2 3rd-3 4th -2 5th +1 6th
Level 12:-4 1st -3 2nd +2 3rd-3 4th -2 5th +1 6th
Level 13:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd +2 4th-2 5th -1 6th +1 7th
Level 14:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd +2 4th-2 5th -1 6th +1 7th
Level 15:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd +2 4th-2 5th -1 6th -1 7th +1 8th
Level 16:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd +2 4th-2 5th -1 6th -1 7th +1 8th
Level 17:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd -3 4th +3 5th-1 6th -1 7th -1 8th +1 9th
Level 18:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd -3 4th +4.5 5th-1 6th -1 7th -1 8th +1 9th
Level 19:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd -3 4th +4.5 5th-2 6th -1 7th -1 8th +2 9th
Level 20:-4 1st -3 2nd -3 3rd -3 4th +7 5th-2 6th -2 7th -1 8th +2 9th

The SR column is lackluster at only 1.5 SR + 1 LR per day. It does improve with the number of SRs per day. It seems fine at 2 SR + 1 LR until Tier 4 and then it feels like the loss of the 1st level spells is not accounted for. Personally I would keep it at 2/SR and give at-will 1st level spells at some point (but I am a sucker for at-will abilities).

The LR column is not worthwhile. The best trade it offers is at 19th (-2 6th -1 7th -1 8th +2 9th) and I think that is just a bit too expensive.

Additionally, while I compared magical volume above, having small spell slots allows more efficient spending. 5E ritual spells and upcasting targets decreases this concern a bit. However at 13th level what if I would rather cast Invisibility twice in sequence for a longer duration rather than upcast it with 3 targets? Anyone that has played a Warlock as a caster will have a better explanation of this concern.

Ultimately it is not worth it, but with tweaks it might be worth it as an alternative for some specific characters. I don't expect it will be a good fit for every caster in the party.

[Catullus64]

I'd be ok with it if the DM asked to have this as the setup for all spellcasters. Wouldn't want to take it as my progression if other characters in the party are going to have the default spell slots.

[Atranen]

I wouldn't care for it. I don't like getting high level slots and needing to upcast lower level spells if I want to use them. For example, as a cleric, I like having first level slots that don't compete with other resources to use on things like bless. If I'm now always choosing between bless and spirit guardians, I'll use bless much less often.

[sithlordnergal]

I'd say no, this is basically taking the Warlock's lack of spell slots to the extreme. Especially if it was applied to all full casters, who generally lack abilities outside of "I cast a spell". I already feel that Warlocks really should have a third spell slot between levels 5 and 11, and I firmly believe that the designers thought that too given the Rod of the Pact Keeper exists. It was, and I think still is, the only item that lets a player restore a spell slot without any restrictions on the level of said spell slot once per day. The only restriction is that it must be a Warlock spell slot.

[RSP]

I’d prefer to just have a set amount of Spell Points for SR, if you’re looking into different options. At least then you can opt for multiple lower level spells rather than a couple bigger slots worth.

[Kane0]

Unless if it was a class that gave other abilities and the spells are just a side thing.

If it was universally applied to all full-casters (and an equivalent for half-casters) then sure, I'd be fine with that change.



On the other hand, this would be a great way to limit casters and possibly bring them more in line with other classes. Not just in power but in rest schedule as well. Theoretically, all classes hewing towards short rests would be pretty cool.

I'd be ok with it if the DM asked to have this as the setup for all spellcasters.
Its a long way off but that is the eventual plan.