Prestige Classes for a Healer/Swanmay?

[Palanan]

I finally have the possibility of trying out a healer build I’ve been wanting to play for years, and I originally worked it up for ninth level, going Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 4.

But now the starting level has changed from ninth to 13th, and I’m at a loss for what to do with the next four levels. Ideally I’d like to find another PrC which I can enter from the current build—with the important caveat that the campaign will be in the Forgotten Realms, so I won’t be able to use PrCs from Eberron or other settings.

Race is aasimar, which is fixed, and I’d like to keep the existing build rather than reworking it entirely. Given this, what PrCs would be good to add on here?

[Anthrowhale]

What do you want from additional prestige classes?

More Swanmay is "ok" since it grants full BAB and full casting.

You may want to pick up something with UMD so you can Channel Charge to expand your spell list. It looks like Mystic Wanderer 2/Master Harper with some time in an Otyugh Hole avoids needing extra feats while keeping skill reqs mostly in-class. Loremaster may also work if you have metamagic feats.

[Khedrac]

If you can work it into your build Combat Medic (HoB) is excellent for a healer - the sanctuary healing kicker can really ruin a DM's day as it has a much higher save DC that the basic spell (I have seen a healing spell cast simply for the kicker when no-one needed healing - it was stopping most of the enemy attacks).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Anthrowhale
…Mystic Wanderer….


Originally Posted by Khedrac
…Combat Medic….

I appreciate the suggestions, especially on these two. I’d long since forgotten about Mystic Wanderer, but it’s very tempting for the familiar alone. Unfortunately the part about gem magic isn’t so appealing—I can’t quite figure out how it works, especially whether you can have more than one gem active at a time, and they look to be fairly expensive for not much benefit.

As for Combat Medic, that would be one of my top choices, and it’s perfectly thematic; but a bit of a hassle to get into, especially in terms of the feats. (Dodge? Really?)

Ideally I’d love to go into Holt Warden, but I can’t figure a way to add the Plant Domain spells to qualify. If there’s a clever way to manage that I’d be glad to hear about it.

[Telonius]

One of the best ones I can think of would be a bit iffy on the "Forgotten Realms" part: Knight of the Raven. Easy entry, 9/10 casting, full BAB. It's technically Ravenloft though. If you could get buy-in from the DM, the vigil could be at [insert your important shrine] instead of Ravenloft Chapel. Rename it "Knight of the Swan." (Bonus DM points if, as part of the ceremony, the Knight can't tell you their name).

If that's totally off the table, Combat Medic would be a good pick.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Telonius
One of the best ones I can think of would be a bit iffy on the "Forgotten Realms" part: Knight of the Raven. Easy entry, 9/10 casting, full BAB. It's technically Ravenloft though.

I appreciate the suggestion. This would’ve been my automatic next step if it weren’t for the setting restriction.

Easy entry and a smorgasbord of great abilities...ah well. I can dream.

[Anthrowhale]

Ideally I’d love to go into Holt Warden, but I can’t figure a way to add the Plant Domain spells to qualify. If there’s a clever way to manage that I’d be glad to hear about it.
Contemplative would be a common approach.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Anthrowhale
Contemplative would be a common approach.

I looked at that one, but I don’t think I can fit Contemplative + Holt Warden into a thirteen-level build. I can’t get my first level of Contemplative until tenth level, and Holt Warden requires Entangle, Barkskin and Plant Growth.

Also, Contemplative assumes you already have cleric casting and domain slots available, but the healer doesn’t have domains or domain slots, so I don’t know how I’d cast the necessary spells. The Contemplative provides access to the bonus domain power, and allows the bonus domain spells to be cast from existing domain slots, but it doesn’t provide domain slots themselves.

[Anthrowhale]

I looked at that one, but I don’t think I can fit Contemplative + Holt Warden into a thirteen-level build. I can’t get my first level of Contemplative until tenth level, and Holt Warden requires Entangle, Barkskin and Plant Growth.

It would be Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 5/Contemplative 1/Holt Warden 2, so certainly not far advanced.



Also, Contemplative assumes you already have cleric casting and domain slots available, but the healer doesn’t have domains or domain slots, so I don’t know how I’d cast the necessary spells. The Contemplative provides access to the bonus domain power, and allows the bonus domain spells to be cast from existing domain slots, but it doesn’t provide domain slots themselves.
There is discussion about how to deal with domains on a noncleric chassis in Complete Divine. In essence, you can prepare one spell/level from the domain in your existing slots.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Anthrowhale
There is discussion about how to deal with domains on a noncleric chassis in Complete Divine. In essence, you can prepare one spell/level from the domain in your existing slots.

I completely missed that section. But that does seem to open up Holt Warden after all. Thanks, promising option to explore.

[Inevitability]

Depending on your swanmay favored enemy, how about Harper Paragon? It does take 2 bad feats to get into, but bc it's all exalted (and so are swanmay's requirement feats) you could go VoP and save yourself some slots (obviously not an option in higher-powered games, but not awful).

It gives full casting advancement, d10 hit die, celestial spell, another animal companion, and at-will detect evil, which aren't terrible. Plus, it should shore up your reflex save some.

[Menzath]

Would you happen to have a list of feats that you are already taking?
Squeezing in the feat southern magician would allow taking a few levels of Geomancer which would legally allow arcane PRCs.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Inevitability
Depending on your swanmay favored enemy, how about Harper Paragon?

Interesting option, thanks. But my character is already part of one secret society, and I don’t think her Vow of Obedience can cover complete obedience to two different organizations.

Also, I can only find a small handful of spells in BoED with the Celestial component, so not sure how useful those would be.


Originally Posted by Menzath
Squeezing in the feat southern magician would allow taking a few levels of Geomancer which would legally allow arcane PRCs.

Appreciate the suggestion, but prefer to keep the casting full divine for this character.

_______


So, right now it’s a photo finish between two build options:


Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 5/Contemplative 1/Holt Warden 2

Ranger 1/Healer 4/Swanmay 3/Combat Medic 5

The capstone of the Combat Medic is nice in theory—the ability to spontaneously cast Heal—but I’ll probably have a couple of Heals already prepared, so not sure how useful that will end up being in practice.

Meanwhile, Holt Warden allows for some situational benefits, including rebuking plant creatures, but the question is how often plant creatures will show up to be rebuked. The main draw for Holt Warden is spontaneous Plant domain spells, which looks handy, but again situational. Also eats a lot of skill points for those 13 ranks in Knowledge (religion).

Any thoughts on the relative advantages of these two options?

[Anthrowhale]

Neither matters much power-wise, so it's a question of flavor. Do you want to be a druidish with healer casting or more healerish with a splash of druid abilities? Personally, I might go Combat Medic because the sanctuary kicker and evasion look nice.

[Clause]

Holtwarden is a perfect choose in fluff therms.

[daremetoidareyo]

You don’t need contemplative:

Planar touchstone: catalogues of enlightenment can get you the ability to cast from the plant domain. It fits into the 6th or 9th level feat slot.

And doesn’t healer 7 or 8 get you a unicorn?

[lylsyly]

how are you getting the ability to cast speak with animals to enter swanmay? not with ranger 1!. druid 1 works. or perhaps mystic ranger out of dragmag.

[daremetoidareyo]

how are you getting the ability to cast speak with animals to enter swanmay? not with ranger 1!. druid 1 works. or perhaps mystic ranger out of dragmag.

theres an acf that grants it in exchange for wild empathy

[lylsyly]

which swanmay also requires

[Inevitability]

how are you getting the ability to cast speak with animals to enter swanmay? not with ranger 1!. druid 1 works. or perhaps mystic ranger out of dragmag.

...it's just on the Healer list?

[lylsyly]

...it's just on the Healer list?

LOL, so it is! I actually cracked open the book too. Just missed it. OOPS!!

[thorr-kan]

As for Combat Medic, that would be one of my top choices, and it’s perfectly thematic; but a bit of a hassle to get into, especially in terms of the feats. (Dodge? Really?)
There are a few feats that can replace Dodge. They have the text, paraphrased, "this feat is functionally Dodge for prerequisites." So there are other choices.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by thorr-kan
There are a few feats that can replace Dodge. They have the text, paraphrased, "this feat is functionally Dodge for prerequisites." So there are other choices.

Thanks, didn’t know that.

Is there a list somewhere of feats which can replace Dodge? So far I can only find three (Desert Wind Dodge, Expeditious Dodge, Midnight Dodge), none of which seems that great.

.

[thorr-kan]

Thanks, didn’t know that.

Is there a list somewhere of feats which can replace Dodge? So far I can only find three (Desert Wind Dodge, Expeditious Dodge, Midnight Dodge), none of which seems that great.

.

Alas, no online list that I'm aware of. Expeditious always seem the most useful to me. Those are the three I remembered. Psionic Dodge stacks with, but does not replace, Dodge. A quick search of books doesn't turn up any more. Sorry, I thought I remembered more.

[Telonius]

Expeditious Dodge is great on a character that's moving or charging a lot (melee types or Scouts are particularly good for it). But if you're not planning to move 40 regularly it's a waste, since it would give you a bonus you never qualify for. Midnight Dodge and Desert Wind Dodge both give a flat +1 to your AC (against all enemies, not just the one you select, per Dodge), but require a bit of investment to use. Desert Wind needs a maneuver, Midnight needs an essentia pool and a CON prereq, on top of the usual Dex 13 for Dodge. Desert Wind also has a movement requirement, but it's more reasonable at 10 ft. If you're playing a Healer, you don't have to worry about losing iteratives quite so much, so you don't need to finagle a level of Monk for the Sparring Dummy of the Master, etc.

If you don't have much room in the build, and you're not planning on being particularly mobile, regular old Dodge would be best. (And yeah, it seriously pains me to say that). Not too mobile and the build has room, Desert Wind or Midnight. If you're going to be moving around a lot, Expeditious Dodge.

[Elenian]

I'm very confused about how this build works. Doesn't Swanmay only advance druid or ranger casting?

[Cygnia]

If you're moving around to cast heals on folks and going Combat Medic, I'd suggest Expeditious Dodge as well.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Elenian
I'm very confused about how this build works. Doesn't Swanmay only advance druid or ranger casting?

The text only mentions druid and ranger as possible entries, but most 3.5 supplements tend to forget any other supplements exist. The table simply refers to “existing class,” and my DM has kindly agreed to let swanmay advance healer casting.

[Elenian]

The text only mentions druid and ranger as possible entries, but most 3.5 supplements tend to forget any other supplements exist. The table simply refers to “existing class,” and my DM has kindly agreed to let swanmay advance healer casting.

Ah! Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I thought maybe I was missing some weird double-advancement trick or so!