Intelligent vermin

[Biggus]

Constructs, oozes and vermin all have the line in their type description saying that most are mindless. There are several intelligent constructs and a small number of intelligent oozes, but I've yet to find an intelligent vermin. Are there any?

[Vizzerdrix]

Celestial template can be applied to vermin and sets the int to 2.

Their is also the watch spider, but that is a magical beast.

[Biggus]

Celestial template can be applied to vermin and sets the int to 2.

Their is also the watch spider, but that is a magical beast.

The Celestial template specifies that if applied to an animal or vermin it changes their type to magical beast.

That said, I think there are one or two templates that could give a vermin an Int score without changing its type, but I'm mostly interested in whether there are any vermin which come with an Int score as standard.

I did find some vermin-like creatures with Int scores, like the Vermiurge in the ELH, but they were classed as magical beasts or aberrations.

[Saintheart]

In the Ooze category, there's the Reason Stealer from MM 2 that works around the problem: its Devour Mind (Su) ability gives it an Int score for 24 hours - its target's Int score. As well as casting abilities. It's a hilarious little monster.

[Tzardok]

I don't think there are any. Anything I remember that grants a Vermin an Int score makes it automatically a Magical Beast (except maybe for the Vermin Keeper's Awaken Vermin ability).

[ShurikVch]

Hell Louse (Fiendish Codex II)

Fang of Lolth PrC capstone (Song and Silence)

Hivemind rules (Book of Vile Darkness)

[Biggus]

Hell Louse (Fiendish Codex II)

Fang of Lolth PrC capstone (Song and Silence)

Hivemind rules (Book of Vile Darkness)

Oh, Hell Louse is a weird one, it's listed as Vermin (Magical Beast). That's only the second monster I've ever seen with a double type (the other is the Atropal from the ELH).

Still, looks like that's the closest thing there is to a natively intelligent vermin. Thank you!

[daremetoidareyo]

I made a giant list of vermin.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?478813-Vermin-Handbook-A-list-of-all-vermin-in-3-5&highlight=vermin+desk+reference+handbook

before the update, neogi grandmaster had vermin type

skitterhaunt + sentry ooze is the typical combo.

[Elkad]

PF scarlet spider as a familiar.

Which both is and isn't a magical beast, so it's still kinda a vermin. With an int of 6+

[Chronos]

Quoth Biggus:

Oh, Hell Louse is a weird one, it's listed as Vermin (Magical Beast). That's only the second monster I've ever seen with a double type (the other is the Atropal from the ELH).
That might have been a sort of prototype beta version of the augmented subtype (which is used to designate that a creature used to be some other type, but was changed). For instance, familiars are magical beasts (augmented animals).

[Fiery Diamond]

PF scarlet spider as a familiar.

Which both is and isn't a magical beast, so it's still kinda a vermin. With an int of 6+

There are other PF vermin that can become familiars, too. Cockroach and Butterfly come to mind.

[Vizzerdrix]

Could the symbiote template pull this off?

[Pezzo]

the vermin keeper's vermin companion can be any vermin from MM1 and has int 2

[Beni-Kujaku]

If you allow 3rd party, Kingdom of Kalamar : Lands of Mystery has a giant water spider which is a pure vermin with 7 int. It's supposed to be unique and its intelligence is never explained, it's quite clearly something specific to it.

[loky1109]

If you allow 3rd party, Kingdom of Kalamar : Lands of Mystery has a giant water spider which is a pure vermin with 7 int. It's supposed to be unique and its intelligence is never explained, it's quite clearly something specific to it.
I think it's a bug.)))

[Beni-Kujaku]

I think it's a bug.)))

No‚ no‚ spiders are arachnids‚ not bugs :smallwink:

Anyway‚ no‚ it's clearly intended‚ the text even saying "being semi-intelligent‚ it befriended some nixies"

[ShurikVch]

If 3rd-party stuff is OK, then how about Witchbane Leech (Denizens of Dread)? It have Int 1

[Saintheart]

No‚ no‚ spiders are arachnids‚ not bugs :smallwink:

The Federation assures me spiders are not Arachnids, and Arachnids are Bugs.

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.CGiE-9Y2CpU6GnoYZ6u0-wHaEK?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

[ShurikVch]

Is d20 Modern stuff OK?
If yes - then:
Infester (Menace Manual) - both adult and grub - Int 1
Shadowmoth Swarm (Urban Arcana) - Int 1
Sentient Killer Bee Swarm (Urban Arcana) - Int 10 (while dispersed, Int —)


I think it's a bug.)))
The real "bug" (typo) was to list Demilich as Vermin in 3.5 update booklet for Epic Level Handbook
(That is - unless they read it as "Demileech") :smallamused: