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bignate
2007-12-06, 06:50 PM
what do you all think of the deadly defense feat from complete scoundrel?

i am currently using it on a bard/ranger duel wielder i am playing and i love it. i have combat expertise so i can take -2 to hit for +2 AC and +1d6 to all of my attacks. because i am a duel wielder i get to add that 1d6 more time than normal. it seems like a good way to help make good on two weapon fighting...

Fax Celestis
2007-12-06, 06:59 PM
I had a Knight//Scout (which really wasn't viable outside of gestalt, but that's something else entirely) that made good use of it. Coupling it with Knight's Challenge and the Riposte variant for Scouts provides for a very very powerful defensive-oriented character.

AslanCross
2007-12-07, 02:06 AM
I think it's a very good way for a finesse melee character without access to precision damage to raise his damage output. With a high-level Duelist, it can work wonders---+1d6 from Precise strike, +1d6 from Deadly Defense, and a whole bunch of AC from Elaborate Parry, Combat Expertise AND Defensive Fighting.

...just remember to fight defensively. One of my players had it and she never used it before her character got killed off permanently.

Dhavaer
2007-12-07, 04:48 AM
I had a character who would have loved this feat. She was utterly incompentant at melee until she started fighting defensively, at which point she became death with pointy ears. It was weird.

Pironious
2007-12-07, 07:35 AM
I use it all the time in conjunction to Elaborate Parry. It's just important to remember that you can't use a rapier with it, which is annoying.

KIDS
2007-12-07, 07:46 AM
It's a really fun and useful feat that allows you to add some moderate damage to your light weapon wielders...

AslanCross
2007-12-07, 07:54 AM
I use it all the time in conjunction to Elaborate Parry. It's just important to remember that you can't use a rapier with it, which is annoying.

You can use it with a rapier. It works with any light or Weapon Finesse weapons.

Pironious
2007-12-07, 08:18 AM
You can use it with a rapier. It works with any light or Weapon Finesse weapons.

Ah yes, so it does. I must be confusing it with another feat that was specifically light weapons only and thus a royal pain to my rapier user.

geek_2049
2007-12-07, 02:18 PM
IDK. Seems like a lot of minuses. Two weapon fighting alone acts as a constant minus two penalty and if you fight defensively/expertise, that's going to be hard to hit anything. Maybe at higher levels it would work better.

Person_Man
2007-12-07, 03:25 PM
In general, feats that provide minor bonuses like Weapon Specialization, Skill Focus, and Deadly Defense are a waste. You're basically spending a feat to get +3.5 extra average damage per attack, which isn't particularly impressive.

bignate
2007-12-07, 05:24 PM
its is a decent amount of damage though when you duel wield. my current character(bard 4/ranger 4) has 5 attacks(bard in our group always casts haste) that means that +3.5 x 5 makes for about 18 damage/round and i get +2 AC on top of it. it is no frenzied berzerker but i think it is worth the feat.

i was also thinking of a Warblade with punishing stance, combat expertise, deadly defense and a great sword making you take a -2 to hit and dealing 4d6+ 1 1/2 str per attack... or even duelwield shortswords with each attack dealing 3d6 but with twice and many attacks.

RTGoodman
2007-12-07, 05:28 PM
IDK. Seems like a lot of minuses. Two weapon fighting alone acts as a constant minus two penalty and if you fight defensively/expertise, that's going to be hard to hit anything. Maybe at higher levels it would work better.

Yeah, by higher levels you can take some levels of Dervish and/or Tempest to (1) get a ton of attacks per round and (2) get rid of TWF penalties altogether. I had a character planned a while ago that was working towards that, but I haven't used him yet.