Theorycraft: No multiclass reqs, pick casting stat, diff. subclass each lvl possible

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

this is just a crazy idea for fun:

What would you play in a point-buy game with feats with the following major rules changes:
- There are no stat requirements for multiclassing
- You can pick your casting stat freely from WIS/CHA/INT for each of your classes (only for spellcasting!), and
- each time you can pick a subclass feature you can pick a different subclass if you want (so a Rogue could pick for example Arcane Trickster at 3 and Scout at 9 etc)

I have really no idea! I feel it would be a bit too many options for me to make ANY decision! :smallbiggrin:

PS: What subclasses would you "ban" in such a scenario so it doesn't get too predictable? Hexblade? Twilight Cleric?

[Hael]

You will have the usual tasha cleric problem..where someone will pick peace1/6 and twilight2 and break the game..

You will have a wizard problem (for instance as a gish, pick hexblade/peace1 (int) then go abjuration/warmage 1, bladesinger 6, chronurgy10, illusion14)

[elyktsorb]

Druid

Moon at 2nd lvl and 6th lvl for better animals and magical damage

Dreams at 10th lvl for the teleport

Spore at 14th lvl for immunity to being blind, deaf, frightened, or poisoned and immunity to crits.


I feel like 2 concerns to this thought experiment are that most subclasses don't synergize well outside of their class, and then there's subclasses that build upon previous features, so taking the latter feature is worthless without the former. So you'll end up primarily with people cherry picking between a single classes subclass features and not just grabbing things from a wide variety of classes.

For instance, would there be any Rogue build that wouldn't always take Theif's Use Magic Device at 13th lvl?

[Wasp]

You will have the usual tasha cleric problem..where someone will pick peace1/6 and twilight2 and break the game..

You will have a wizard problem (for instance as a gish, pick hexblade/peace1 (int) then go abjuration/warmage 1, bladesinger 6, chronurgy10, illusion14)
Yeah, there are some subclass features that are just way stronger than anything else. And you pretty much picked the worst offenders there already I guess...



I feel like 2 concerns to this thought experiment are that most subclasses don't synergize well outside of their class, and then there's subclasses that build upon previous features, so taking the latter feature is worthless without the former. So you'll end up primarily with people cherry picking between a single classes subclass features and not just grabbing things from a wide variety of classes.
That's true! I had some hopes for D&D One with sublass features all coming at the same levels you could have maybe "prestige" subclasses that any class could take, but that's apparently off the table...



For instance, would there be any Rogue build that wouldn't always take Theif's Use Magic Device at 13th lvl?
And AT at 3? It seems getting spellcasting opens a lot of options for any Rogue...

[Frogreaver]

Single level wizard dip (using primary class casting stat) for most casting classes becomes nearly mandatory.

Shield
Absorb elements
Silvery bards
Absorb elements
Find familiar

Bard can take a good level 3 subclass feature then get lore bards spells at 6.

Barbarians will be very good. Something like zealot level 3 and ancestral guardians level 6 feature.

Paladins get little though you can now pair one with wizard instead of sorc. A much better proposition IMO.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

The casting stat thing seems like it would open up some options; I keep trying to come up with Ranger ideas that work, and Sorc seems good. Also Paly/ Moon Druid I like, but again the MADness is problematic. That said, I don't have much interest in 1 or 2 level dips just for power, so I've put in a 1/3 rule at my table; characters have to, for example, take level 2 in any secondary classes once the primary class hits 6 and so on. Overall, with the right group I like that rule as an experiment.
Picking subclass features I'm less thrilled about, as it lends itself more to powergaming than features as a part of a cohesive subclass to support roleplaying.

[Sigreid]

At that point, I'd probably just go play GURPS.