Top 10 cantrips

[Anthrowhale]

I enjoyed Asmotherion and Troacctid's top-10 arcane lists (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656981-Top-10-Arcane-Spells-per-spell-level), which started me thinking about top 10 lists in general--the process of selecting a top-10 list clarifies tradeoffs in interesting ways and I was curious what a Dragonblood Spell-pact marketplace might look like. Starting with cantrips seems reasonable, so where am I wrong in the below?


BCDW Detect Magic (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm). Divination. Discover magical loot / magical traps / illusions, for minute/level. Arcane Sight is eventually faster and double range, but it makes your eyes glow so detect magic remains favored for the stealth inclined.
BW Mage Hand (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageHand.htm). Transmutation. Trigger traps, distract, poke, pilfer, etc... Duration: Concentration means you can keep it up until an encounter starts.
D Fire Eyes (Master of the Wild). Transmutation. 10 minutes/level able to see through natural smoke/fire/fog. Combo with smokesticks for stab-in-the-dark tactics at ECL1. Better than No Light since it works with more than darkvision races and lasts 10x longer.
BW Ghost Sound (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghostSound.htm). Illusion(Figment). Programmed sounds for round/level. Good for misdirection.
BW Prestidigitation (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm). Universal. Extremely diverse minor effects (https://web.archive.org/web/20180509193121/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707). Lots of role-play utility and highly useful as a means of disguise.
W Launch Item(Spell Compendium). Transmutation. Launch item you possess to medium range. This can be a potent attack spell even at high levels if you can get ahold of Aboleth Mucus (Savage Species), and more generally it allows for a range of damage types of alchemicals or holy water, potentially including sneak attack riders. To see options, look at Troacctid's item list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sJRCphWkrtLm8Q6iD6_YPp00MggiAT556j9231uu5Lg/edit#gid=0) filtering tags by 'consumable (single-use)' and then keeping just alchemical/nonmagical types.
BW Message (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/message.htm). Transmutation[Language-dependent]. Party scout can communicate with party for 10 minutes/level. Eventually Telepathic Bond is superior.
BCDW Read Magic (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/readMagic.htm). Divination. Understand what the magic writing says. Absolutely required for some classes.
D Dawn (Spell Compendium). Abjuration. Awaken unconscious creatures in 15' radius of you. Antidote to Sleep (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sleep.htm), Deep Slumber (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deepSlumber.htm), Symbol of Sleep (https://dndtools.org/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/symbol-of-sleep--2577/), Hiss of Sleep, etc... and counters nonlethal damage while using only a swift action.
BCDW Mending (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mending.htm). Transmutation. Fix broken mundane things. Some mundane things are expensive while others (such as keys or holy symbols) unlock other abilities. Sometimes this can be used to hide things like an object in a small statue.

B = Bard, C = Cleric, D = Druid, W = Sor/Wiz.

Count by:
class: 7B, 3C, 5D, 8W
school: 1 Abj, 2 Div, 1 Ill, 5 Trans, 1 Universal
modifiers: 1 Figment, 1 Language-Dependent
source: 7 PHB, 1 MotW, 2 SC

Edits: updates based on comments & for analysis. Removed Summon Holy Symbol for Mending.

Maybe not:
W Acid Splash (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidSplash.htm). Conjuration(Creation)[Acid]. A close ranged touch attack deals 1d3 acid damage with SR:No. Essentially, "least orb of acid". Useful even at higher levels with attack riders like sneak attack or damage riders like Wounding or Fell Drain. Alternatives are SR:Yes. Sonic Snap does rarer-immunity damage but loses the attack riders. The effect is mostly eclipsed by Launch Item + alchemicals unless you are quite poor or very interested in particular damage riders like Fell Drain. Aboleth Mucus for example is a launchable touch attack weapon which is typically better than any metamagic rider---you can legitimately call it overpowered.

[AnonJr]

Replace Daze with Prestidigitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm)? Mostly because the latter is super useful, and remains so throughout your career. There's all sorts of fun with Prestidigitation (https://web.archive.org/web/20180509193121/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707). :smallsmile:

[Bullet06320]

Replace Daze with Prestidigitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm)? Mostly because the latter is super useful, and remains so throughout your career. There's all sorts of fun with Prestidigitation (https://web.archive.org/web/20180509193121/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707). :smallsmile:

I'm gonna 2nd this, so many potential uses in one spell, in combat once in a while, but mostly utility, but a creative player can find a use

[Thunder999]

I'd swap Read Magic for Prestidigitation, you don't really need Read Magic, Spellcraft already does everything it can.

[Anthrowhale]

Replace Daze with Prestidigitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm)? Mostly because the latter is super useful, and remains so throughout your career. There's all sorts of fun with Prestidigitation (https://web.archive.org/web/20180509193121/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707). :smallsmile:

Looking at the list, Change, Chill, Color, and Sketch seem like things you can't do via mundane means. This seems potentially useful in disguise/forgery types of situations. Have you used Prestidigitation in practice in the game? What were the actual uses?

[Anthrowhale]

I'd swap Read Magic for Prestidigitation, you don't really need Read Magic, Spellcraft already does everything it can.

Interesting thought here about Read Magic, and I've discarded several other cantrips (like cure minor wounds) because you can do a skill instead. The spellcraft check is 20+spell level and can only be retried once/day making the odds of success initially quite low. I could imagine that the odds of success are low enough that Read Magic provides real value in the early levels, particularly if there is no Int-based spellcaster in the party.

[Chronos]

Remove Dawn. You know how else you can wake up sleeping creatures? Yell at them. Which requires no spell and no action.

Add Summon Instrument. Not because you want something that makes music, though it can be used for that, too. But because it lets you summon a wide variety of objects. On my bard, I've used it for:

A tuba, when we just wanted something big and heavy to throw.
A trombone, to prop open a door.
A didgeridoo, for use as a ten-foot pole.
A pile of bagpipes, to cushion the fall into a pit of unknown depth.

I'm pretty sure there were a few I'm forgetting, too.

[Anthrowhale]

Remove Dawn. You know how else you can wake up sleeping creatures? Yell at them. Which requires no spell and no action.

The Sleep (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sleep.htm) spell says:


Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not.

And of course noise doesn't awaken anyone who is nonlethaled into unconsciousness.



Add Summon Instrument. Not because you want something that makes music, though it can be used for that, too.

Nice.

[Anthrowhale]

I'm convinced we should put prestidigitation in there, due to large amounts of utility and role-playing for disguise/forgery applications. On the utility side, the ability to do something every round for an hour can be impressive---you can clean _many_ dishes. On the disguise/forgery side, the comprehensiveness of what can be done is pretty helpful compared to mundane means.

However, it means a need to drop something, which is a bit challenging.

Read Magic is eventually not very useful with a high enough spellcraft as pointed out by Thunder999, but that's a very gentle deprecation over levels 1-20.
Dawn is pretty situational (party is knocked out by some sleep effect or nonlethal damage where noise does not work), but as a swift action it's handy and it is a situation which comes up over an adventuring career.
Summon Holy Symbol is even more situational since it's cleric-only, but being parted from your items is a failure mode which arises over an adventuring career and optimizing for the difficult cases is a good approach to success.
Daze is really only relevant when you have a boss fight with a 4-HD humanoid, something which is relevant only over the earliest levels, say 1-3.... I'll drop this one since there are much more compelling compulsions amongst level 1 spells.

Edit: removed Daze.

[AnonJr]

Looking at the list, Change, Chill, Color, and Sketch seem like things you can't do via mundane means. This seems potentially useful in disguise/forgery types of situations. Have you used Prestidigitation in practice in the game? What were the actual uses?

I have. :smallbiggrin:

Solved some bit of role-play in one game, I forget the why - only that the NPC wouldn't deal with us due to the smell of the people clustered outside his establishment. "The only problem is the smell?" "Yes." ... an hour of Prestidigitation cleaning later, we fed him back his words and got our deal.

Fire Finger has come in handy to make the equivalent of a magical zippo.

Also for making that copper look rather gold in colour... and trying to finish the bribe conversation before the hour was up. That one didn't go as well as the others.

[Anthrowhale]

I have.
Excellent, Prestidigitation is in now.

I thought about Summon Instrument, but I haven't been able to convince myself it's worthwhile since you can just buy an instrument (for perform) and other objects like 10' poles as needed. Weight limits may apply, but that's what mules or other party members are for. The 1 round casting time also seems "meh" for combat utilization.

[AnonJr]

I thought about Summon Instrument, but I haven't been able to convince myself it's worthwhile since you can just buy an instrument (for perform) and other objects like 10' poles as needed. Weight limits may apply, but that's what mules or other party members are for. The 1 round casting time also seems "meh" for combat utilization.

My Bards tend to take Summon Instrument, but only so that I'll never not have an instrument. Same for Clerics and Summon Holy Symbol. I know they take a little bit of valuable space in a limited allotment of spells, but when you need them you really need them. :smalltongue:

[Anthrowhale]

My Bards tend to take Summon Instrument, but only so that I'll never not have an instrument. Same for Clerics and Summon Holy Symbol. I know they take a little bit of valuable space in a limited allotment of spells, but when you need them you really need them. :smalltongue:
The difference is that Bards don't really need instruments to function---they can just sing instead.

[Chronos]

Quoth Anthrowhale:

I thought about Summon Instrument, but I haven't been able to convince myself it's worthwhile since you can just buy an instrument (for perform) and other objects like 10' poles as needed.
There's a difference between "all the mundane objects you can think of in advance and plan for" and "all the mundane objects that you can think of in the spur of the moment, as the situation arises".

[Anthrowhale]

There's a difference between "all the mundane objects you can think of in advance and plan for" and "all the mundane objects that you can think of in the spur of the moment, as the situation arises".

I agree, but perhaps not a dramatic difference?

To be more concrete, what would you replace? Dawn seems to age well for a cantrip.

[eggynack]

I'd swap dawn for cure minor. Sure, you could get a decent heal check and duplicate the central effect, stabilizing allies, but heal is pretty mediocre as skills go. This is as opposed to the read magic/spellcraft thing where every caster in existence is going to be putting every point and then some into the skill. I'd generally prefer to just devote a slot or two to CMW. Also, if your allies don't end up half dead in the middle of the road, you get a bit of value at the end of the day in the form of an HP or two. Which is nice.

Edit: Oh wait create water isn't on the list? That spell is pretty great. It's a lot of water you're conjuring, and the result is a pretty versatile spell.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd swap dawn for cure minor. Sure, you could get a decent heal check and duplicate the central effect, stabilizing allies, but heal is pretty mediocre as skills go. This is as opposed to the read magic/spellcraft thing where every caster in existence is going to be putting every point and then some into the skill. I'd generally prefer to just devote a slot or two to CMW. Also, if your allies don't end up half dead in the middle of the road, you get a bit of value at the end of the day in the form of an HP or two. Which is nice.


I rather like putting 10 ranks into heal for Healing Lorecall. The spell is quite useful, especially in combination with Close Wounds (and even more so with a Lesser Rod of Chain Spell).
The ability to remove dazed or nauseated from an ally with an immediate action is worth 10 skill ranks and a 2nd level spell on a cloistered cleric imo, and it's a worthwhile investment for druids too if you can spare the ranks.
And if you can manage a DC 50 heal check you can heal as if you'd given long-term care for a day for 6 people in an hour, once per day.

Also Blessed Bandages only cost 10gp. No need to reserve a spell slot for something that hopefully shouldn't come up that often.

[Thunder999]

I don't think Dawn actually does age well, it's great vs Sleep spells at low level, but once you outlevel that there's not much that actually inflicts sleep as a condition, and nonlethal is almost entirely limited to NPCs trying to take the party alive for some reason, which you can easily go an entire campaign without seeing.

[noce]

I don't think Dawn actually does age well, it's great vs Sleep spells at low level, but once you outlevel that there's not much that actually inflicts sleep as a condition.

But most players continue to sleep every day, and ambushes can be rarer but always a possibility.
In our campaign, for example, most epiphanies happen at night when a misterious figure (ally, enemy, or neither) appears to the player keeping watch. Dawn can help strike fast if you don't trust said figure.

[Prime32]

No lightBoVD creates darkness more intense than the darkness spell, and its inability to foil darkvision can turn into a benefit if you have darkvision and your opponents don't.

Launch bolt and launch item give you a long-range attack, and can be Quickened to act as a pseudo-flurry.

Combining summon instrument with fine-tuningS&S grants you access to a masterwork pipe organ without having to carry it around, which lets you maintain up to three bardic music effects at once.

[Anthrowhale]

I'd swap dawn for cure minor.
Dawn has the virtue of preventing a lethal condition (helplessness) when it's applicable. W.r.t. stabilization, it seems like the L1 spells are _much_ better at hitpoint recovery, so you are already going to have one of those, making cure-based stabilization already covered.


Edit: Oh wait create water isn't on the list? That spell is pretty great. It's a lot of water you're conjuring, and the result is a pretty versatile spell.
What would you alternate with?


No lightBoVD creates darkness more intense than the darkness spell, and its inability to foil darkvision can turn into a benefit if you have darkvision and your opponents don't.
At level 1, it's more typically the reverse, and at higher levels, just about everyone has darkvision. Given this, Fire Eyes seems superior.


Launch bolt and launch item give you a long-range attack, and can be Quickened to act as a pseudo-flurry.

Using a crossbow to launch a bolt seems entirely adequate. Launch Item has some potential utility, but what's the scenario where you replace one of the above?


Combining summon instrument with fine-tuningS&S grants you access to a masterwork pipe organ without having to carry it around, which lets you maintain up to three bardic music effects at once.
A Pipe Organ is probably bigger than a two-handed instrument.


I don't think Dawn actually does age well, it's great vs Sleep spells at low level, but once you outlevel that there's not much that actually inflicts sleep as a condition...
In core there is Deep Slumber (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deepSlumber.htm) (sleep with 10HD limit) and symbol of sleep (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolOfSleep.htm). Out of core there is Hiss of Sleep which has no HD limit.

[eggynack]

Dawn has the virtue of preventing a lethal condition (helplessness) when it's applicable. W.r.t. stabilization, it seems like the L1 spells are _much_ better at hitpoint recovery, so you are already going to have one of those, making cure-based stabilization already covered.
Using an actual spell for combat healing kinda sucks. Even without cure minor available, I'd still be highly unlikely to prep CLW or lesser vigor. They're just not particularly worth a first level slot, and cure minor is worth a zeroth level slot, so the latter is the superior option.


What would you alternate with?

I dunno, folks are apparently skeptical of read magic?

[Chronos]

Quoth noce:

But most players continue to sleep every day, and ambushes can be rarer but always a possibility.
In which case you can just yell, so the spell is irrelevant. And yes, there are sleep effects at higher levels, but they're quite uncommon.

[Metastachydium]

Ah, my very favourite subject!


In core there is Deep Slumber (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deepSlumber.htm) (sleep with 10HD limit) and symbol of sleep (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolOfSleep.htm).

And Pixie sleep arrows; and Brass Dragon breath; and Beholder(kin) eye rays.


Out of core there is Hiss of Sleep which has no HD limit.

Plus Melf's Slumber ArrowsCM, Sleep MoteSand, Endless SlumberCM and other stuff (including Polymorph-based methods).

[aglondier]

In our current campaign the three most used cantrips are Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, and Mending.

Mending has proven to be an excellent choice considering the amount of equipment and scenery damage we rack up...

[RexDart]

In our current campaign the three most used cantrips are Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, and Mending.

Mending has proven to be an excellent choice considering the amount of equipment and scenery damage we rack up...

In written adventures, I've seen a non-trivial number of things meant to be rather significant obstacles, but the writer apparently forgot about Mending.

[Anthrowhale]

In written adventures, I've seen a non-trivial number of things meant to be rather significant obstacles, but the writer apparently forgot about Mending.

Would you say that Mending is more important at high levels or low levels? My initial thought here was that mundane things are generally cheap, but if you are running into plot-device related applications, maybe not.

[Vizzerdrix]

I've never needed Dawn. Even with night time ambushes. I have used cure minor early on to stabilize downed party members and later on as a gateway spell to pick up spontaneous healer.

Caltrops is a handy bit of early BFC. It can get down right silly later on with meta magics.

[RexDart]

Would you say that Mending is more important at high levels or low levels? My initial thought here was that mundane things are generally cheap, but if you are running into plot-device related applications, maybe not.

The example that sticks in my mind was in a ~10th level adventure. IIRC we found a broken iron key, or a gear that was part of a mechanism or somesuch, details are hazy in my memory, that apparently was intended to be a problem. (You can't use the key, so you have to figure out some other way to get past the door.) But the item wasn't complex, and it was a clean break, so there was no obvious reason why Mending wouldn't work.

One thing I'm not clear on in retrospect is whether we all might have overlooked the "Target: One object of up to 1 lb." bit, which I had myself forgotten until looking it up just now. I seem to remember the item being bigger than that.

[Fero]

Would you say that Mending is more important at high levels or low levels? My initial thought here was that mundane things are generally cheap, but if you are running into plot-device related applications, maybe not.

Mending opens a number of useful tricks that can remain useful 1-20. For example, you can use it to hide things in a hollow statue by breaking the statue open, and then mending it closed.

[Fero]

I've never needed Dawn. Even with night time ambushes. I have used cure minor early on to stabilize downed party members and later on as a gateway spell to pick up spontaneous healer.


I also find Dawn to be am odd inclusion. It is useful, but not neccesary when it's niche situation comes up. I can see using it if my DM likes nighttime ambushes. However, in that case I would probably start using Alarm by mid levels, obviating the need for Dawn. I can't say it is a spell that I would always consider.

[noce]

I also find Dawn to be am odd inclusion. It is useful, but not neccesary when it's niche situation comes up. I can see using it if my DM likes nighttime ambushes. However, in that case I would probably start using Alarm by mid levels, obviating the need for Dawn. I can't say it is a spell that I would always consider.

Alarm is not a Druid spell.

The fact is that Dawn is the only swift cantrip ever printed, and it's something.
There are cases where you could cast a healing spell, but it's often a standard action or at least a waste of a higher level spell slot.
There are cases where you could just yell, but trust me, my dwarven fighter with -7 to listen and spot had a hard time passing the check: keep in mind that "A sleeping character may make Listen checks at a -10 penalty."

Dawn has a very minor opportunity cost, with a cantrip slot and a swift action you can be sure to always be able to awake nearby friends, with 100% accuracy.

EDIT: I almost forgot it saved our lives against a band of Fiend Folio Jackalweres!

[Anthrowhale]

Dawn is clearly controversial with proponents and opponents. But, maybe there are easier targets amongst the current top 10?

Message is obsolete once Telepathic Bond is available making it only useful for half the game.

Acid Splash requires riders to do anything interesting and there are certainly better (although higher level) spells to apply riders to.

Read Magic eventually becomes obsolete since Spellcraft can largely replace it.

[Thunder999]

I'm not quite sure Message is obsolete with Telepathic Bond.
Telepathic Bond has its advantages, but a 5th level slot is a pretty high cost to pay for what's a fairly minor utility most of the time.

[Anthrowhale]

I'm not quite sure Message is obsolete with Telepathic Bond.
Telepathic Bond has its advantages, but a 5th level slot is a pretty high cost to pay for what's a fairly minor utility most of the time.

This may depend on whether or not you are ready to go with a permanency plunge. I realize some people are afraid to shed XP, but since XP is merely quadratic in level and exponential in ECL mismatch with a doubling over 2-3 levels, spent XP tend to come back very quick.

[Fero]

Dawn is clearly controversial with proponents and opponents. But, maybe there are easier targets amongst the current top 10?

Message is obsolete once Telepathic Bond is available making it only useful for half the game.

Acid Splash requires riders to do anything interesting and there are certainly better (although higher level) spells to apply riders to.

Read Magic eventually becomes obsolete since Spellcraft can largely replace it.

Re: Message--> I concur with the above that a lvl 5 slot is a huge opportunity cost to replace the utility of this cantrip.

Re: Acid Splash, I agree that this cantrip largely needs riders to be useful but do not agree that higher level spells are better vehicles for those riders. To the contrary, Acid Splash is one of the few cantrips that a player can focus a build around. The low level and SR "no" make this a compelling choice for a variety of damage linked MM. Similarly, the low level and touch attacks make this a potent tool for sneak attack builds. That said, I can see removing the spell. It is very powerful, but only for the narrow band of builds that can make use of it.

Re: Read Magic, this is an odd one. On one hand, it is more or less neccesary to wizards for a big stretch of the game. On the other hand, it is seldom useful to memorize, except during downtime, or to learn (wizards know it automatically). Would you feel comfortable removing from the list but adding it as an honorable mention?

[AnonJr]

Keep in mind that Acid Splash does at least have uses outside of combat too. If you need to melt/break something it's not bad for taking out a lock, or destroying a letter after you've read it, etc.

[Anthrowhale]

Ok, let's try swapping Summon Holy Symbol for Mending.

The logic here is that (a) Mending is much more generally useful and (b) you may be able to cobble together and/or mend a holy symbol even in a capture situation.

[Thunder999]

You're not breaking much with Acid Splash, your best case scenario is still only 1d3 damage.

[AnonJr]

You're not breaking much with Acid Splash, your best case scenario is still only 1d3 damage.

Didn't intend to suggest much more than a small object, just that it gives you more options than just combat/MM riders. It's been a fun cantrip to use to gum up a door to keep it from latching, destroy a message after receipt, etc.

[Fero]

Didn't intend to suggest much more than a small object, just that it gives you more options than just combat/MM riders. It's been a fun cantrip to use to gum up a door to keep it from latching, destroy a message after receipt, etc.

Does Hardness apply to Acid Damage?

[AnonJr]

Does Hardness apply to Acid Damage?

Had to double-check, lately I've been playing Psi Warrior/Duskblade beatsticks.


Energy Attacks
Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

[Fero]

Had to double-check, lately I've been playing Psi Warrior/Duskblade beatsticks.

So hardness applies b/c it is part of the "normal" damage calculation, right? If so Acid Splash will struggle to damage all bust the most fragile objects.

[sleepyphoenixx]

So hardness applies b/c it is part of the "normal" damage calculation, right? If so Acid Splash will struggle to damage all bust the most fragile objects.

That's what the "vulnerability to certain attacks" clause is for.

Vulnerability
The DM can rule that certain attacks are espe-
cially successful against some objects. Such
attacks deal double damage. Some might
even ignore the object’s hardness.

Some things (like Stonebreaker Acid) specify it, but it's mostly up to DM interpretation.

[Chronos]

On the Acid Splash question, Sonic Snap is also an option. The upsides compared to Acid Splash are that it doesn't need an attack roll, and it's a less-resisted damage type. The downsides are that it's only 1 damage instead of 1d3 (very seldom relevant, since almost all of what we care for is from the riders), it does allow SR, and because it doesn't need an attack roll, you can't use it with Sneak Attack.

It's one of those cases where the flexibility of a wizard over a sorcerer is good. A wizard who wants to use the Fell Drain Cantrip trick at CL 3 will want to use Sonic Snap as the base, because at that level, SR is quite rare, but missing, even on a touch attack, is still pretty easy. At high levels, though, if she's using a cantrip for that at all, she's more likely to have switched to Acid Splash, because touch attacks become much more reliable as you level up, and SR becomes more common.

I think we can definitely agree that Acid Splash is better than Ray of Frost, though, between SR: No and acid being usually a better damage type than cold. A rogue might still carry wands of both (they're cheap), just in case they fight a fire-subtype monster, but acid is definitely the first choice.

[Anthrowhale]

It's one of those cases where the flexibility of a wizard over a sorcerer is good.

In the wizard v sorcerer debate, it may be worth noting that a Strongheart Sorcerer can Fell Drain Sonic Snap at level 1 with Versatile Spellcaster. That's not sustainable over 4 encounters/day, but it is automatic death for anything with 1 hit dice, which is fairly common at level 1.

[Fero]

In the wizard v sorcerer debate, it may be worth noting that a Strongheart Sorcerer can Fell Drain Sonic Snap at level 1 with Versatile Spellcaster. That's not sustainable over 4 encounters/day, but it is automatic death for anything with 1 hit dice, which is fairly common at level 1.

Hopefully the character has enough ranks in Knowledge: Religion to know how wights work. . .

[Anthrowhale]

Hopefully the character has enough ranks in Knowledge: Religion to know how wights work. . .

You do kind of wonder if there are Teleport+Ghost Trap cleanup crews on call to clean up before these things get out of hand. Sort of "Center for Wight Control" instead of a "Center for Disease Control" where people get to roll their eyes at low level adventurers accidentally touching off apocalypse sequences.

[Fero]

You do kind of wonder if there are Teleport+Ghost Trap cleanup crews on call to clean up before these things get out of hand. Sort of "Center for Wight Control" instead of a "Center for Disease Control" where people get to roll their eyes at low level adventurers accidentally touching off apocalypse sequences.

This sounds like the premise for an awesome campaign.

[Chronos]

My favorite trigger for the Wight Apocalypse is a town that has, in the middle of its town square, a Holy Undead-Bane weapon on a pedestal, for use by anyone for defending the town if it ever comes under attack by undead. And then, one day, it's picked up by a level 1 commoner who happens to be evil..

[Fero]

I don't have all of the Dragon, but from a review of what I have:

Zap Trap (302)--> A permanent damaging ward on a level 0 spell. Likely opens all sorts of crazy combos.

Deftnes (302)--> Flat bonus on a skill check.

Footpad's Grace (302)→ Small untyped bonus to move Silently that lasts as long as you concentrate.

[Anthrowhale]

Zap Trap (302)--> A permanent damaging ward on a level 0 spell. Likely opens all sorts of crazy combos.

My imagination is failing?



Deftnes (302)--> Flat bonus on a skill check.

One skill check +2 (insight) is potentially worthwhile. We dropped Divine Insight from level 2 as it was not competitive with other L2 spells or the L1 skill boosters.

With that said, I'm not sure what I'd drop.



Footpad's Grace (302)→ Small untyped bonus to move Silently that lasts as long as you concentrate.
This seems useful but perhaps to niche?

[rel]

The trick with launch bolt is that it doesn't specify the size of arrow or bolt you launch. With eschew materials or a wand or something, you can conjure then launch a colossal crossbow bolt.

It's hardly game breaking, but yeeting a tree at someone is a neat trick.

[Fero]

Re Zap Trap: The trap explicitly can be put on any surface and triggers when touched. You can probably place a few on the cutting head of the Barbarian's Battle Axe or better yet, the fighter's shield. At 3" diameter a piece, you can fit maybe around 50 (?) on a medium shield. Use a ring of Mystic Lightning to increase the damage of each trap to 4d6+1 and shield bash for 50*(4d6+1) avg 750. Use Fell Enervate instead to inflict a bunch of negative levels. The ability to store magical riders indefinitely and trigger them easily is powerful for a level 0 spell.

Re Launch Bolt (and Launch Item): These are also good to build around. Reach+Chain+MM reducers let's you Launch up to 21 Bolts/Items with a fairly low level spell slot. Combine with Flame Arrows for even more fun.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

One fun thing about prestidigitation is that it can affect "1 cubic foot of material," but it doesn't mention the configuration thereof. It's not "1 foot cubed," just "1 cubic foot." Did you know that 1 cubic foot equals 1,728 cubic inches, which can be spread out in a very large square, or a big circle, both 1 inch deep? Or one with double the surface area if you reduce that further to 1/2 inch. And it's still 1 cubic foot, either way.

You can clean or color a very LARGE area if you spread that cubic foot out enough.

Also, the Clean Function™ can be used to dig through dirt at a decent pace, especially if you're using it to remove longer, thinner rectangles, or esoteric lattice shapes that skip over small cubes throughout its volume, and then use shovels to scoop up the much easier to remove debris left over.

[sleepyphoenixx]

One fun thing about prestidigitation is that it can affect "1 cubic foot of material," but it doesn't mention the configuration thereof.

Yes it does?

Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

A 1-foot cube is a cube with sides 1 foot long, not one cubic foot of material.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Yes it does?

A 1-foot cube is a cube with sides 1 foot long, not one cubic foot of material.Hmm. Good catch. I think that was a houserule for the last few games I played; granted, that was quite some time ago.

[Fero]

Yes it does?


A 1-foot cube is a cube with sides 1 foot long, not one cubic foot of material.

Do you happen to have a page # for this statement? It has come up before and I would like to know the RaW on this.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Do you happen to have a page # for this statement? It has come up before and I would like to know the RaW on this.

It's the rules text of the Prestidigitation spell, copied from the SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm).
Not sure on the page number in the PHB but it's not exactly hard to find.