Sudden Strike - get around immunity?

[Endril_69]

I'm in need of some help. I'm making a level 14 ninja, and the only way I can see him being useful in combat is making a few sudden strike attacks a round. The problem is about half of the enemies are likely to be immune to it, due to items, spells, or creature type. An easy answer to this would be an item like deathstrike bracers, but RAW, they only work for sneak attack, not sudden strike. I've looked all over the MIC, Complete Adventurer, and Complete Scoundrel, but I can't find anything that allows sudden strike to get around crit immunities. Do any of you know of a RAW way around it?

By the way, I'm limited to these books:
Player'sHandbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Miniatures Handbook
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Magic Item Compendium
Spell Compendium
Cityscape
Dungeonscape
Frostburn
Sandstorm
Draconomicon
Eberron Campaign Setting [non-setting specific feats & monk abilities only]
Player's Handbook 2 [base classes only]
Drow of the Underdark
Monster Manual 2
Monster Manual 3
Races of Destiny
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Races of the Wild
Dragon Compendium
Heroes of Battle [base classes only]
Heroes of Horror [base classes only]
Libris Mortis
Eberron Campaign Setting [psionic abilities only]
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Complete Psionic
Player's Handbook 2
Dungeon Master's Guide 2
Complete Champion
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Tome of Battle

[Gruftzwerg]

If you have access to UMD, there are some niche spells that suppress immunities based on type.

e.g. Spark of Life (spell compendium) lets an undead behave like a living creature and suppresses most undead immunites.

I think there is also an option for constructs, but I'm not really sure on this.. can't remember atm..

[Nihilarian]

If you have access to UMD, there are some niche spells that suppress immunities based on type.

e.g. Spark of Life (spell compendium) lets an undead behave like a living creature and suppresses most undead immunites.

I think there is also an option for constructs, but I'm not really sure on this.. can't remember atm..Golem Strike, Vine Strike and Grave Strike are swift action first level spells from various spell lists that strip immunity from a relevant creature for 1 round. They're probably all in Spell Compendium

[Endril_69]

Golem Strike, Vine Strike and Grave Strike are swift action first level spells from various spell lists that strip immunity from a relevant creature for 1 round. They're probably all in Spell Compendium

"This spell applies only to sneak attack damage." I don't think that would work on Sudden Strike RAW. I'm wondering if it was an oversight, or if they really don't want ninjas doing damage in half their encounters. The DM(s) may be house ruling Sudden Strike to benefit from items/spells the same way Sneak Attack does. If that happens, Deathstrike bracers seem like a good solution.

[tyckspoon]

"This spell applies only to sneak attack damage." I don't think that would work on Sudden Strike RAW. I'm wondering if it was an oversight, or if they really don't want ninjas doing damage in half their encounters. The DM(s) may be house ruling Sudden Strike to benefit from items/spells the same way Sneak Attack does. If that happens, Deathstrike bracers seem like a good solution.

Yeah, the easiest approach here is to get a minor allowance from your DM to have Sudden Strike qualify for/benefit from the vast array of things that are written for Sneak Attack and Only Sneak Attack, because most books only ever reference themselves and the Player's Handbook so there's almost never an allowance for content that is 'like Core feature, but not named the same.' Other than that just about the only thing I know of that might work is from a book you don't have, has some other potentially showstopping requirements, and might not actually work:

Dragonfire Strike (Dragon Magic.) Requires being dragonblooded (so racial selection or another prereq feat to gain the subtype), works with Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, or Skirmish (because this is one of the very few books where they remembered that they had written non-core base classes and maybe some of them would like some support too!) Your precision damage can become fire damage, and if you do you also do +1d6 additional damage.

The part that might not work is it's not very clear, rules-wise, whether or not you still have be able to deal the (Sneak/Sudden Strike/Skirmish) damage in order to do this, or if you only have to qualify to make one regardless of whether your subject can actually suffer the damage, or if the feat allows you to deal regular energy damage or if it's now sneak-fire-damage and still subject to all the normal restrictions of Sneak/Sudden/Skirmish.

(When not attacking something with sneak immunity, it's basically just 'you get +1d6 Sneak damage' and it's fine.)

[Crake]

Yeah, the easiest approach here is to get a minor allowance from your DM to have Sudden Strike qualify for/benefit from the vast array of things that are written for Sneak Attack and Only Sneak Attack, because most books only ever reference themselves and the Player's Handbook so there's almost never an allowance for content that is 'like Core feature, but not named the same.'

This is also my recommendation.

[Saintheart]

If you have access to UMD, there are some niche spells that suppress immunities based on type.

e.g. Spark of Life (spell compendium) lets an undead behave like a living creature and suppresses most undead immunites.

I think there is also an option for constructs, but I'm not really sure on this.. can't remember atm..

Humanoid Essence and Greater Humanoid Essence.

[Gruftzwerg]

Golem Strike, Vine Strike and Grave Strike are swift action first level spells from various spell lists that strip immunity from a relevant creature for 1 round. They're probably all in Spell Compendium

As Endril_69 said, these would need some DM fiat to work. If the DM agrees these are the best (and lowest lvl) options.


Humanoid Essence and Greater Humanoid Essence.

Ebberon ... that's why I couldn't find it.. I was thinking about Spell Compendium, but yeah..
Thx for providing the spells I wanted to mention..^^

[Chronos]

Things that work for Sneak Attack already work for Sudden Strike. That's in Complete Adventurer somewhere.

[Darg]

Things that work for Sneak Attack already work for Sudden Strike. That's in Complete Adventurer somewhere.

It only says that sudden strike qualifies for things that sneak attack qualifies for, not that sudden strike benefits from things that benefit sneak attack.


An easy answer to this would be an item like deathstrike bracers, but RAW, they only work for sneak attack, not sudden strike.

Actually by RAW it would work for sudden strike.


Creatures with concealment, creatures without discernible anatomies, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are immune to sudden strikes.


When activated, deathstrike bracers allow you to use melee weapons to deal extra damage from critical hits and sneak attacks to constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, and undead as if they were not immune to such extra damage.

While the bracers are activated the creatures are treated as if they aren't immune to extra damage from critical hits. Though, you still have to deal with the "without discernible anatomies" part.

[Chronos]

Eh, "without discernible anatomies" is mostly just oozes and elementals, and neither of those is a particularly large fraction of enemies (especially not at level 14).