What reason could a Mind Flayer colony get involved with lycanthropy?

[ratidae]

Recently I ended a campaign centered around lycanthropy where a few lycantropes were acidentally let loose and wild, in the same world with other players I hinted towards mindfalyers starting to make a presence in the world. I was asking myself could there be a reason for mindflayers to get involved with lycanthropy? Maybe even get infected? My idea being to mix both things for the next campaing. Like a colony becoming infected or something along the lines.

[No brains]

Here's a weird place where mind flayers and lycanthropy could intersect: the nature of diseases and moon-based curses in the Astral Plane.

Githyanki, the enemy of the mind flayers, are known for short violent night raids on surface communities. Assuming a githyanki was attacked by a lycanthrope, it may never know because the githyanki's main weapons, silver swords and arcane magic, make a lycanthrope just as easy of a target as any other humanoid. And since githyanki aren't afraid of melee and can live for years at a time on the Astral Plane in communities where they have relatively scare access to curative magics, this means that there is likely an undiagnosed epidemic of githyanki lycanthropes.

Because they're smart about weird subjects like this, mind flayers may be interested in lycanthrope distribution as an indicator of githyanki activity. Githyanki are normally impossible to track due to their innate Nondetection spells, but a githyanki overcome by lycanthropy might go 8 hours without refreshing its ability and thus leave itself open to detection, then capture, and then interrogation by mind flayer colonies. One idiot wolf dashing through the woods might possess secrets that could give the mind flayers an edge in their alien war. And because githyanki can be cruel and calculating about the weaknesses a diseased deserter could bring to their plans, you might see one of their astral skiffs throwing grenades at a normal looking dog like the opening of The Thing.

[Boverk]

Experimentation? The Mind Flayers have a history of that I believe, and this could be the latest avenue they are pursuing. Trying to build a better foot soldier for the always upcoming takeover of the universe.

Could be looking to make them more controllable for their armies or more wild and aggressive to let loose in enemy controlled areas to sow discord and cause trouble.

[Temperjoke]

...Are mindflayers immune to lycanthropy? They could have eaten the brain of someone with it, after all.

[Grim Portent]

...Are mindflayers immune to lycanthropy? They could have eaten the brain of someone with it, after all.

Traditionally they are immune due to creature type. Aberrations can't become lycanthropes, because only humanoids and giants can, and in 5e I'm not sure giants can anymore either.

Doesn't mean they wouldn't want to experiment with the limits and boundaries. What happens when you implant a tadpole into a lycanthrope while it's in hybrid form and so on. You wouldn't get a proper mindflayer, but they do have all those weird slave caste offshoots born from improper hosts.

[Brookshw]

Experimenting with lycanthropy to find a way to make themselves werehumans to better disguise themselves and infiltrate societies.

[Millstone85]

Doesn't mean they wouldn't want to experiment with the limits and boundaries. What happens when you implant a tadpole into a lycanthrope while it's in hybrid form and so on. You wouldn't get a proper mindflayer, but they do have all those weird slave caste offshoots born from improper hosts.The typical 5e lycanthrope counts as "humanoid (human, shapechanger)" regardless of form (MM p208-211) and other humanoids can become lycanthropes as well (MM p206). The requirement for proper ceremorphosis has also been extended to any humanoid host (VGtM p72). Sot it seems you can already go crazy with combinations, like an illithid made from a dragonborn werewolf.


Experimenting with lycanthropy to find a way to make themselves werehumans to better disguise themselves and infiltrate societies.And then there are reverse lycanthropes, like the jackalwere (MM p193), which could provide an even more direct path to this disguise.

[Eldan]

My first thought was actually "distraction". They seeded a local forest with werewolves to keep the local paladin order busy for a few weeks while they engage in their evil plan, or similar.

If you want the mind flayers infected, what about a mutated form of the disease that acts on mindflayers? There's a lot of wild mindflayer-like fauna, maybe an infected mindflayer just turns into a huge sized tentacle abomination that rampages around.

[Unoriginal]

Taking a page out of Bloodborne:

There is an Elder Evil connected to the Moon, and the Mind Flayers think connecting the minds of enough Moon-influenced creatures will let them contact and summon it.

There could be a lot of groups using various methods to try to accomplish that:

-Group A thinks the lycanthropes' bodies matter, so they connect a lot of them with psionic transfer cables.

-Group B thinks only the brains matter, so they have been turning lycanthropes into Brains-in-a-Jar

-Group C thinks only the psionic potential matters, so they are grabbing all the psions they can and infecting them with lycanthropy

-Group D agrees with C, but not with the method. They teach the infected psions a way to steal their preys' psionic powers, and make them fight, under the reasoning eventually one will have all of their defeated foes' psionics

-Group E thinks A is correct, the body is important. So they are tryong to graft many lycanthropes' brains into one lycan's head.

-Group F thinks only the Illithid Hive Mind can handle such a task,, so they are trying to make lycanthropes into Mind Flayers or to make the curse ablr to affect them

-Group G thinks F is foolish and that letting the curse into Illithids' minfs and bodies will lead to disaster. They are experimenting with other Hive Minds, like the Myconid one or the Cranium Rat one.

-Group H is a Mind Flayer Arcanist who fled one of the groups above and who want to prove magic will manage to contact the Elder Evil while psionic methods fail. They have been getting in touch with magic users of other species to try and achieve that.

Etc, etc.

[Millstone85]

maybe an infected mindflayer just turns into a huge sized tentacle abomination that rampages around.A bit like a thoon hulk, except with the ability to hulk in as well as hulk out.

And perhaps a third form that resembles a neothelid or an illithidae.

[JackPhoenix]

To play a devil's advocate for a bit: Why would the two have to be involved? The players apparently finished campaign featuring lycanthropes (the exact extent isn't apparent from the OP), why have them fight lycanthropes again? Focus on something else, not everything need to be connected. Sure, there may be other lycanthropes lurking in the woods, but mind flayers don't neccessarily have to care about that. After all, they can't suck their brains out, as their tentacles are neither silvered or magical, and the periodic transformation (and the same damage immunity) likely won't lend itself to successful ceremorphosis. If anything, they may be interested in exterminating the lycanthropy to stop it from infecting the rest of their potential food/hosts.

[Millstone85]

After all, they can't suck their brains out, as their tentacles are neither silvered or magicalI am now picturing tentacle silverware.


the periodic transformation (and the same damage immunity) likely won't lend itself to successful ceremorphosis.Ah now yes, good point, it would be difficult to equip the tadpole for its fight against the lycanthrope's brain.


If anything, they may be interested in exterminating the lycanthropy to stop it from infecting the rest of their potential food/hosts.Like protecting livestock from wolves.

[Sigreid]

Mind flayers eat brains, lycanthropes eat the rest. Seems like a perfect pairing.

[Chronos]

Two rules I would set for using mindflayers in a campaign:

1: Mindflayers are involved in everything they know of. And they know of everything.
2: Never explain anything involving mindflayers.

About the only thing that's known about mindflayers is that they have grand, all-encompassing plans. But what those plans are is knowable only to the mindflayers.

[Reathin]

Lycanthropy makes even a weak and untrained person into a potential dangerous threat, while simultaneously inducing paranoia in a community hit by it. This makes it useful for disruption, sabotage and wearing down a dangerous region if needed.

On a less practical note, maybe the brains of the transformed have a totally different taste to the Mindflayers; all the cognition of a humanoid, overlayed with the sheer intensity of a wrathful beast isn't something they can normally enjoy, and it might become a delicacy among them (perhaps a dangerous one, the equivalent of hard drugs to the Ilithid?)

[KorvinStarmast]

Experimenting with lycanthropy to find a way to make themselves werehumans to better disguise themselves and infiltrate societies. The doppelgangers called, and want a quiet word. :smallfurious:

To play a devil's advocate for a bit: Wins thread.

Two rules I would set for using mindflayers in a campaign:

1: Mindflayers are involved in everything they know of. And they know of everything.
2: Never explain anything involving mindflayers.

About the only thing that's known about mindflayers is that they have grand, all-encompassing plans. But what those plans are is knowable only to the mindflayers. +5.

Lycanthropy makes even a weak and untrained person into a potential dangerous threat, while simultaneously inducing paranoia in a community hit by it. This makes it useful for disruption, sabotage and wearing down a dangerous region if needed. Lycanthropes have a lot of narrative value, and are used best (IME) as a plot device.

[Millstone85]

On a less practical note, maybe the brains of the transformed have a totally different taste to the Mindflayers; all the cognition of a humanoid, overlayed with the sheer intensity of a wrathful beast isn't something they can normally enjoy, and it might become a delicacy among them (perhaps a dangerous one, the equivalent of hard drugs to the Ilithid?)Things like their architectural tastes and sense of fashion are supposed to change depending on their diet. The iconic illithid is likely from a colony that preys mostly on the drow.

A colony addicted to lycanthrope brains could develop some manner of savage/primal outlook while being otherwise normal illithids.


The doppelgangers called, and want a quite word. :smallfurious:Now what happens when a changeling goes through ceremorphosis...

[KorvinStarmast]

Now what happens when a changeling goes through ceremorphosis... Head explodes? :smallconfused:

[Millstone85]

Head explodes? :smallconfused:Or maybe just an illithid who can disguise itself as other illithids. Little more than party trick when you are among telepaths.

[Temperjoke]

The fact that you just ended a campaign involving lycanthropy could actually lead to some interesting character development by involving lycanthropes and mind flayers. Your players are used to the lycanthropes being the bad guys, right? What if suddenly your party was presented a different view? A group of lycanthropes being horrifically experimented on by mind flayers? The mind flayers could be trying to find a way to create an illithid version of the curse, where it creates more mind flayers as opposed to needing tadpoles? Or trying to isolate what gives lycanthropes their immunities to a lot of regular weapons?

Either way, now your party has to deal with the idea that the group they've been slaughtering are now the victims in need of rescuing.

[verbatim]

On a less practical note, maybe the brains of the transformed have a totally different taste to the Mindflayers; all the cognition of a humanoid, overlayed with the sheer intensity of a wrathful beast isn't something they can normally enjoy, and it might become a delicacy among them (perhaps a dangerous one, the equivalent of hard drugs to the Ilithid?)

iirc the vampiric mindflayer statblock in Van Richten's is all about animalistic savagery, could easily be reflavored as "this is what happens to a Mindflayer when they eat a werewolf brain".

[Dr.Samurai]

Recently I ended a campaign centered around lycanthropy where a few lycantropes were acidentally let loose and wild, in the same world with other players I hinted towards mindfalyers starting to make a presence in the world. I was asking myself could there be a reason for mindflayers to get involved with lycanthropy? Maybe even get infected? My idea being to mix both things for the next campaing. Like a colony becoming infected or something along the lines.
Sure. I think, to keep it simple, some people get bit, those people are cursed with lycanthropy and will transform into a were-creature at the rise of the next full moon. In that time, they are captured by mind flayers and subjected to ceremorphosis.

The tadpole devours the brain and takes over the body, but does not cure the lycanthropy. You then have a new mind flayer that, at the next full moon, transforms into something. What exactly? I don't know. In 3.5 Monsters of Madness they introduced illithidae, mind flayer type fauna. There's some tentacly hound type creatures there. Could be a mix of wolf and illithid, with a hybrid form of course.

If this new creature has a strain of lycanthropy that can infect aberrations, the mind flayers are in trouble and may need the help of the PCs to avoid being wiped out.

EDIT: This new flayer-werewolf could have a new psychic strain of lycanthropy. If it stuns someone with its Mind Blast, it infects them with a psychic disease that basically turns them into a rabid rage zombie.

[Chronos]

Quoth Dr.Samurai:

If this new creature has a strain of lycanthropy that can infect aberrations, the mind flayers are in trouble and may need the help of the PCs to avoid being wiped out.
The flip side of mindflayers being so alien and unknowable is that it's almost impossible to empathize with them. Tell any group of players "The mindflayers need help or they'll be wiped out", and they'll say "Good riddance". Heck, tell them "The mindflayers need help or the entire multiverse will be wiped out", and they'll say "Yeah, right, that's just what they want us to think, we're not falling for that one".

[Unoriginal]

The flip side of mindflayers being so alien and unknowable is that it's almost impossible to empathize with them. Tell any group of players "The mindflayers need help or they'll be wiped out", and they'll say "Good riddance". Heck, tell them "The mindflayers need help or the entire multiverse will be wiped out", and they'll say "Yeah, right, that's just what they want us to think, we're not falling for that one".

I mean, the Mind Flayers aren't just alien, they are vicious imperialists who treat humanoids like cattle and who only reproduce by parasiting sapient species.

A number if people in the D&D world may be willing to help individuals who broke away from the Elder Brains' society, but helping the Elder Brains' society? Even gods of compassion would take a pause at that.

[Dr.Samurai]

All true.

The idea isn't really to make mind flayers sympathetic or anything. More like... ravenous werewolf mind flayers are worse than normal mind flayers, and if the colony is left to be cursed into these new creatures, the surface world will face a far greater threat.

It all depends on what the DM wants to do with this. If the Elder Brain is infected, could it impact their Creature Sense/Sense Thoughts ability to turn everyone in 5 miles into rage zombies? I don't know. Just giving out ideas for the OP to consider.

After the were-illithid threat is addressed, go back to hacking off mind flayer tentacles! You can imagine the last mind flayer-werewolf being killed, and then the normal illithids and the PCs are standing there, catching their breaths, and turn to look at each other, each thinking one of:

"Okay, time to enslave these useful cattle"

or

"Okay, time to eradicate these remaining squid-faces"

[KorvinStarmast]

The fact that you just ended a campaign involving lycanthropy could actually lead to some interesting character development by involving lycanthropes and mind flayers. Your players are used to the lycanthropes being the bad guys, right? What if suddenly your party was presented a different view? A group of lycanthropes being horrifically experimented on by mind flayers? The mind flayers could be trying to find a way to create an illithid version of the curse, where it creates more mind flayers as opposed to needing tadpoles? Or trying to isolate what gives lycanthropes their immunities to a lot of regular weapons?

Either way, now your party has to deal with the idea that the group they've been slaughtering are now the victims in need of rescuing.
As a DM, I approve of this concept. Nice thinking.

iirc the vampiric mindflayer statblock in Van Richten's is all about animalistic savagery, could easily be reflavored as "this is what happens to a Mindflayer when they eat a werewolf brain". Not a bad idea, but since I won't be running as a DM in that setting, ever, I likely won't use it.

The flip side of mindflayers being so alien and unknowable is that it's almost impossible to empathize with them. Tell any group of players "The mindflayers need help or they'll be wiped out", and they'll say "Good riddance". Heck, tell them "The mindflayers need help or the entire multiverse will be wiped out", and they'll say "Yeah, right, that's just what they want us to think, we're not falling for that one". Yep.

I mean, the Mind Flayers aren't just alien, they are vicious imperialists who treat humanoids like cattle and who only reproduce by parasiting sapient species. A number if people in the D&D world may be willing to help individuals who broke away from the Elder Brains' society, but helping the Elder Brains' society? Even gods of compassion would take a pause at that. Not to mention their "lovecraftian horror" style origins in EGG's brain.

[RustyDemiGod]

People contaminated with eldritch blood spawning a plague of beasts….wait that’s Bloodborne

[JLandan]

Perhaps an illithid unknowingly chomps a brain infected with lycanthropy and becomes an abomination within the colony. The raging were-beast may be immune to any usual mindflayer abilities and it runs rampant and then disappears. No illithid is suspect because the creature is unaware of its own curse. The elder brain must seek outside help to eliminate the monster among monsters. There just happens to be a group of adventurers who have recently proven their skill in werewolf elimination. Through coercion or persuasion (or even just plain money) the elder brain wishes to negotiate said party's services. A werewolf hunt amongst a mindflayer colony. Only in D&D.

[Mastikator]

Not gonna lie, a mindflayer with immunity to non-magical non-silvered B/P/S is a bit more terrifying than a standard mindflayer. And if it is no longer a part of the hive (a hive that is paranoid and secretive) and instead going on a hunger-driven rampage would be a significant threat to the common folk of the land.