Permanency and character death.

[Yogibear41]

If a character who has made multiple permanent spells via permanency dies, and is subsequently raised, do their permanent spells remain intact or are they discharged?

[icefractal]

In general, spells don't end when the caster dies, even for non-permanent ones.

[Chronos]

How else could you get an ancient long-abandoned dungeon with permanent spell effects still in it?

[sleepyphoenixx]

I don't know of any RAW regarding permanency specifically, but at least contingent spells explicitly stay around after death.

Personally i'd rule it that as long as they have something to attach to (as in, your corpse is mostly intact) the spells remain, but if you get disintegrated the spells are gone too.
That's just what makes sense to me though.

[MonochromeTiger]

Permanency persists after death, it's kind of part of the name. As long as nothing directly counteracts the spell effect it keeps going indefinitely independent of the caster and without needing their assistance to maintain it.

It might be easiest to think of it this way. if a normal item has a spell put on it and permanency used it's effectively a magical item without the usual effects like enhancement bonus, it is (insert mundane item here) of X spell effect. To make it a mundane item again you'd need to remove the magical property directly or destroy the item just like you would with a +1 sword, killing the blacksmith who made it or the Wizard that enchanted it doesn't make the sword stop being magically sharp it just means they aren't going to be going around making more +1 swords.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It might be easiest to think of it this way. if a normal item has a spell put on it and permanency used it's effectively a magical item without the usual effects like enhancement bonus, it is (insert mundane item here) of X spell effect. To make it a mundane item again you'd need to remove the magical property directly or destroy the item just like you would with a +1 sword, killing the blacksmith who made it or the Wizard that enchanted it doesn't make the sword stop being magically sharp it just means they aren't going to be going around making more +1 swords.

Permanent duration spells (including Permanency) are still spells and get removed by dispel, not actual magic items that only get suppressed for a few rounds.

Also going by your analogy it'd be less killing the blacksmith and more sundering the sword, which would definitely remove the magic. But people aren't swords and permanent spells aren't magic items.

[MonochromeTiger]

Permanent duration spells (including Permanency) are still spells and get removed by dispel,

Which is what I said. "Remove the magical property directly" was referring to dispelling it. That cancels out the spell, the magical item comparison was strictly for thinking of it in terms of duration.

"Effectively" and "actually" are different. It is "effectively" like a magic item in that the effect is permanent and will continue on long after the caster is dead provided nothing directly removes it. It isn't "actually" a magic item because it's a spell on something that can be removed rather than the item itself being magical, but in the context of duration it can be thought of similarly. Because both keep up the magical effect until directly acted upon.


not actual magic items that only get suppressed for a few rounds.

I am aware.


Also going by your analogy it'd be less killing the blacksmith and more sundering the sword, which would definitely remove the magic. But people aren't swords and permanent spells aren't magic items.

Going by my analogy killing the caster who did the permanency spell and killing the blacksmith are pretty much the exact same result. They can't make more but it does nothing to the thing they made already. The analogy was for the original question, whether or not the death of the caster removes the permanency effect. It doesn't. The analogy was not for how to actually remove the effect.

Perhaps I phrased it badly? I thought I had clearly separated those points but apparently it didn't come across that way. If so I apologize for not properly conveying what I was trying to say. Could've heard it in a way that felt less like someone is trying to call me out but hey that's the internet.

[Chronos]

Are we talking specifically about permanent spells cast on the person? In that case, the answer is still that they're permanent, but the person being dead is likely to make many of them irrelevant (a corpse won't get much benefit from a permanent Detect Magic, for instance).

[Telonius]

The duration of the Permanency (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm) spell is Permanent (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration):


Permanent
The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.


So when does the effect end? Dispel Magic is one way of ending the effect. Personally I would rule that destroying the target of the spell would end the effect as well. For example, destroying an item affected by a Permanency'd Animate Objects would end the Permanency effect. You'd just have a broken item, and detect magic wouldn't ping. Otherwise you'd keep having new animated shrapnel each time you break the thing. Similar thing for spells cast on creatures. If the creature is killed (or destroyed), it would end the effect.

[Chronos]

"Killed" and "destroyed" are not necessarily the same thing for a creature. I think that I would rule that "destroyed" would be at the same point as when the corpse is not "mostly intact", for the distinction between Raise Dead and Resurrection.

[spectralphoenix]

If, while under the effect of a spell that depends on type
(such as hold person), my character is transformed into a
different creature type by polymorph*, does the spell’s
effect remain?
Yes. A spell only checks to see if you are a legal target
when it is cast. If you become an illegal target later (such as via
the polymorph spell), the spell remains in effect.


While the FAQ is not necessarily RAW, I would say that this ruling means that yes, the spells stay on. Even if you become an invalid target by becoming a dead body rather than a creature, that doesn't end the spell.

That said, this is kind of a fuzzy point in the rules and applying it rigorously can lead to some weirdness, so I wouldn't be surprised if individual DMs see it differently.

[Jack_Simth]

If a character who has made multiple permanent spells via permanency dies, and is subsequently raised, do their permanent spells remain intact or are they discharged?

From my perspective, depends:
1) Are the spells on the person going through Death's revolving door, or are they elsewhere?
a) If elsewhere, then they remain intact.
b) If on the person, continue processing.
2) Is it the same body?
a) If yes, then they remain intact.
b) If no, continue processing.
3) Is the spell on the body or the soul?
a) If "soul," then yes, they remain intact.
b) If "body," (and keep in mind, you passed 2 via b to get here), then effectively no - the spell is on the original body, not the new one.