Magical Girl class?

[Aotrs Commander]

I was idly browsing the Library of Metofitz last night, and I happened across the Magical Girl (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Magical_Girl) class. I am resisting the urge to immediately incorporate it on principle (because, frankly, the person who would want to play it most is me, and I am DM forever). But I wondered if anyone has either played one or seen one played and how it matches up.

[Rynjin]

Looking at it, my primary issue is that the core Transformation class feature is...really weak. Spending a Standard action to essentially do NOTHING only to set up an incredibly weak ranged attack for the a few turns down the road is awful. There are some interesting Power options, but even there some of the best ones like Signature Spell really make you wonder whether it's actually worth it to spend 2 Standard actions to cast a spell a few extra times per day.

Honestly everything AROUND that feature seems pretty good, but it seems like the optimal way to play Magical Girl is to never transform and instead use your Transformation rounds as fuel for abilities like Magus Arcana. Kinda sucks for the player, becaus ethe flavor of Magical Girl is "transform for all these cool powers", but the mechanics of the class are "Transform to do this one finishing move and then power down".

Honestly the class might be entirely fixed if Transformation worked like basically every other core "class buff" feature, being a Swift or Free action. It has some really interesting tricks but has a lot of "feelsbad" attached to it.

[Akal Saris]

I'll second Rynjin's comments: the class has excellent flavor, but is basically a worse version of the Magus.

I would suggest the following fixes:
a) Transformation is a swift action
b) Finishing Attack instead gives the option to add 2d6 (upgrading to 4d6, etc.) to the damage that you deal to a single opponent with a spell that round. If you target multiple opponents with a spell, or the spell targets the same opponent multiple times (such as scorching ray), you only add the damage one time.

Finally, you might want to check out the Vigilante's "Magical Child" archetype. It's an actual Paizo archetype based on the same concept :)

[SangoProduction]

There is nothing particularly wrong with it.
Of course, in a standard game, a standard action is too long. But that's kind of the joke of magical girls. No one actually fights during the stock animation sequence. So if you actually stuck to that principle, then it is as good as a non-action. But, if you actually did stick to it, everyone would be sick of it after a while, because it's just waiting. There's not even an animation that you've seen 50 times already.
So, yeah, I'd echo making it a swift action.

[emulord]

If you want the transformation to still take a long time but no one can do anything, Make it a full round action, but until the start of your next turn, All creatures in line of sight have to make a HARD will save, upon failing, suspend all durations of effects (Increase duration by 1 round, no additional effects or damage, skip damage this turn), they are Fascinated until the start of the Magical Girl's next round. This even affects normally immune creatures, like ones under mind blank, undead, golems, elementals...

Final bosses and real jerks can attack during the transformation, but everyone else including allies are just watching the show.

[Mnemius]

There's also the "Magical Child" archetype for the vigilante class. If I remember right, part of vigilante is decreasing the time it takes to swap roles. I was a bard in a Hells Rebel campaign with one.

[pabelfly]

There's also the "Magical Child" archetype for the vigilante class. If I remember right, part of vigilante is decreasing the time it takes to swap roles. I was a bard in a Hells Rebel campaign with one.

You can get the transformation down to a full-round action at 7th level and a swift action at level 13.

Magical Child is pretty decent. Unchained Summoner casting, a familiar, and the regular Vigilante goodies. When we did Pathfinder tiering we put it as a solid T3 class.

[Aotrs Commander]

It would appear (from here and reddit) that my initial impression was correct, it would need a bit of work (on both transformation and finishing move before you started) to bring up to spec.

(That is has spell combat but not the eldtrich archery version also seems a bit of a misstep in my opinion for a class which seems to want to be a fair bit ranged.)



But this was mostly idle speculation, anyway; I am definitely not bringing in at the moment (I have enough rules stuff and I am NEARLY KIND OF FINISHED1 that I don't want to make more work for myself right now for what would solely be a vanity project for my own kicks and giggles (since I won't ever get to have a magical girl character, regardless of mechanics used; certaintly not two, since I already desperately want to do the concept with Soulknife/Soulbow first anyway, sicne that was what kicked-off the last round of rules-stuff).

Not even with the hilarious thought of using the aforementioned class to make Evil!Centurions for some random boss fight. (Centurions was totally a magical girl show, you can't convince me it wasn't!)



1I can retire the Complete Psionic and XPH to my shelf, and hoepofully by next week even the PHBII (ToB already having gone)

[Remuko]

i can't remember the link to it but i think think the giant (ya know THE GIANT) made a class somewhere here that can be used for magical girls, tho i think it was more he-man/shazam inspired. maybe someone knows the link and can post it so you can see if you like that one better.

[Akal Saris]

Here's a link to that class: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Champion_(3.5e_Class)

I've built a few champion characters - it's a great concept overall if you want to play She-Ra, for example. I'll note that it's underpowered compared to Pathfinder classes - I would change its spell-casting to Inquisitor's progression+list, up the HD to a d10, and increase the energy resistance from 5 to 10, at a minimum.

[inuyasha]

The idea of playing a Magical Girl in your average D&D/PF game is kinda funny. I'm not really a fan of the vigilante, but considering how a transformation sequence is required to play one, I think a Bloodrager would make for a fun way to do it. Just go nuts and start clubbing people while tossing out bolts of fire and having Shield going

[Maat Mons]

Since someone mentioned Vigilante being able to change identities as a move or swift action at 12th level, I guess I’ll point out that the Splintersoul (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante/archetypes/vigilante-archetypes-paizo-inc/splintersoul-vigilante-archetype/) archetype gets that at 7th level instead. Unfortunately, Splintersoul isn’t compatible with Magical Child. The only spellcasting archetype Splintersoul is compatible with is Zealot (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante/archetypes/vigilante-archetypes-paizo-inc/zealot/). The only archetype Magical Child is compatible with, so far as I know, is Wildsoul (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante/archetypes/vigilante-archetypes-paizo-inc/wildsoul/). Growing feathered wings as part of your transformation would be on-brand for Magical Children.

[Bucky]

You can also implement a magical girl as a kineticist, with the transformed form being the defensive talent and the visual effects of elemental overflow; once prepared and suppressed, transformation can be an immediate action. It's not as strong an option as magical child, but it's there with no concessions compared to a baseline kineticist.

Although it's tactically questionable, a number of casting classes can prepare a standard-action transformation sequence that consists of dismissing Disguise Self.

[False God]

You could also use the Summoner with the Synthesist variant of your Eidolon being your armor, your magical girl outfit ala: "Is this a Zombie?" the more powerful you become, the cuter the outfit gets. The big downside is it's got a 1 minute summoning, though I think there's a spell that will allow you to summon it temporarily, with normal spellcasting times.

Elves have a favored class bonus that reduces casting time by 1 round/level. So after 9 levels it only takes 1 round to summon.

If you're content with wearing the outfit all the time, alright. You might consider asking your DM for a "wand/staff/magical implement of disguise" to allow you to effectively wear the eidolon-outfit all the time, and then switch off the disguise via the wand/staff/magical implement, ya know, with some spinning or whatever.

[Prime32]

Magical Child is a little... odd, in terms of actual abilities gained. Their transformation is just a disguise rather than a buff, and actively punishes you for using it in response to enemies. Plus the amount of emphasis on combat familiars. And then the picture is a knockoff of Akemi Homura, someone who doesn't disguise herself or have a personal familiar. Funnily enough, the vigilante talent Companion to the Lonely (building a morale pool through mundane interactions with your loved ones) would be pretty on-brand if not for the part where it requires sex.

In a standard PF game I'd go for something like a Paladin with the Chosen One (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Paladin%20Chosen%2 0One) and Redeemer (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Paladin%20Redeemer ) archetypes, and just find a magic item that lets you equip armor instantly. Though common tropes like "your attacks are only harmful to evil; most monsters are innocent people under a curse and beating them up cures them" would still need the cooperation of the DM at the campaign design stage. The idea of a depressed/desperate "fallen" magical girl who needs redemption is also a strongly-established thing, which lines up with paladin well.


There is nothing particularly wrong with it.
Of course, in a standard game, a standard action is too long. But that's kind of the joke of magical girls. No one actually fights during the stock animation sequence. So if you actually stuck to that principle, then it is as good as a non-action. But, if you actually did stick to it, everyone would be sick of it after a while, because it's just waiting. There's not even an animation that you've seen 50 times already.
So, yeah, I'd echo making it a swift action.
Most transforming heroes are at least implied to be transforming instantly, with the process slowed down for the audience's benefit. Especially magical girls, who'll often just switch in a flash of light if the choreography demands it. Or in high-budget series they can keep fighting as they transform, forming their outfit piecemeal (Kamen Rider Kuuga's first transformation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVcY5DfSw8k) has been homaged multiple times).

At the very least, if you want a kabuki-style hero who strikes dramatic poses while yelling about love and justice, you could throw in something like SoP's Gladiator sphere (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/gladiator) and let them transform as part of the action of using it.

[Morphic tide]

If you want the transformation to still take a long time but no one can do anything, Make it a full round action, but until the start of your next turn, All creatures in line of sight have to make a HARD will save, upon failing, suspend all durations of effects (Increase duration by 1 round, no additional effects or damage, skip damage this turn), they are Fascinated until the start of the Magical Girl's next round. This even affects normally immune creatures, like ones under mind blank, undead, golems, elementals...

Final bosses and real jerks can attack during the transformation, but everyone else including allies are just watching the show.
Suspending durations is a bit overcomplicated and makes it largely interchangeable with a Free Action, to say nothing of the issues with having multiple Magical Girls turning the turn order into swiss cheese. Attaching real value to the transformation sequence making it hard for enemies to exploit the "down" turn is a neat idea, though.


Funnily enough, the vigilante talent Companion to the Lonely (building a morale pool through mundane interactions with your loved ones) would be pretty on-brand if not for the part where it requires sex.
The amount of yuri-bait in these franchises is nigh incomprehensible, man.


Most transforming heroes are at least implied to be transforming instantly, with the process slowed down for the audience's benefit. Especially magical girls, who'll often just switch in a flash of light if the choreography demands it. Or in high-budget series they can keep fighting as they transform, forming their outfit piecemeal (Kamen Rider Kuuga's first transformation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVcY5DfSw8k) has been homaged multiple times).
You could almost manage this out of the Magus Spell Combat framework being used to gradually self-buff, though I doubt there's particularly appropriate pre-existing options.

[Rynjin]

Is it really even bait if they follow through? A lot of them do, eg. Sailor Moon.

[bekeleven]

Excellent. More entries to add to my magical girl classes index. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19521755&postcount=274)

[Prime32]

The amount of yuri-bait in these franchises is nigh incomprehensible, man.
Not even what I mean.

A big part of the magical girl formula is puberty metaphor, with a kid getting to take on a grownup role part time. The part-time is important; they still get to live as a normal girl, with all the benefits thereof.

The thing is, a magical girl is not an adult woman, just a little girl's idealised vision of one (basically a kid with increased agency, pretty clothes, etc.). It's ultimately a crutch to develop skills and experiences which will make her a strong, well-adjusted person in her normal life.

A magical girl "falls" when she no longer has a Muggle support network to go back to (e.g. because her family is dead, turned abusive, or is being held by the villains to force her to work for them). Her desperation generally makes her strong, but incapable of further growth. Destined to eventually be befriended/saved by the protagonist, who gets stronger as she grows more mature and develops new powers as she discovers her potential as a person.

I think mechanically this could be represented by giving the magical girl class a Nonlethal Strike ability, and some kind of resource pool that they can use to push their limits (as mentioned above). Falling causes you to lose both of these, as well as the ability to level up as a magical girl, but you still retain your other class features as long as your alignment remains non-evil.

[Rynjin]

At that point, you may as well just swap systems to Magical Burst (https://yarukizerogames.com/my-games/magical-burst/) lol.

(Fun system BTW.)

[Aotrs Commander]

I'll be honest, if I ever actually do the thing, it'll be much more Nanoha than anything else really, where it's less of a transformation and more just... Armour and getting to shout attacks that, like, shoot through the inside of starships.

Musing about the aforementioned class aside, if I am ever in a position to actually ever DO it (vanishingly remote, at this point, because it would require some else to ever be willing to DM, if not 3.Aotrs, Pathfinder) my first port of call would be Soulknife. (specifically, as gifted blade) using Soulbolt; or even potentially Armour Blade and taking Telekinetic Bolt as the first blade skill, depending on whether or not I choose to flavour the transformation as either just standard psionic powers (.e.g Internal Armour/Force Screen) or not.



(Though now the idea HAS been planted in my head, I am so totally going do a group of Evil!Not-Centurions using the same sort of logic as a proper Classed Enemy Boss Fight at some point...

Quick, what monster in PF has a name which rhymes with "man...")




Not even what I mean.

A big part of the magical girl formula is puberty metaphor, with a kid getting to take on a grownup role part time. The part-time is important; they still get to live as a normal girl, with all the benefits thereof.

The thing is, a magical girl is not an adult woman, just a little girl's idealised vision of one (basically a kid with increased agency, pretty clothes, etc.). It's ultimately a crutch to develop skills and experiences which will make her a strong, well-adjusted person in her normal life.

A magical girl "falls" when she no longer has a Muggle support network to go back to (e.g. because her family is dead, turned abusive, or is being held by the villains to force her to work for them). Her desperation generally makes her strong, but incapable of further growth. Destined to eventually be befriended/saved by the protagonist, who gets stronger as she grows more mature and develops new powers as she discovers her potential as a person.

I think mechanically this could be represented by giving the magical girl class a Nonlethal Strike ability, and some kind of resource pool that they can use to push their limits (as mentioned above). Falling causes you to lose both of these, as well as the ability to level up as a magical girl, but you still retain your other class features as long as your alignment remains non-evil.

Nah, not interested in any of that; as I say my formative magical girl series involved burly 1980s men in a 22-minute action movie, and then Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, so it's mostly about the stupidly overblow transformation sequences that never gets old and being able to shout attacks a lot.

Y'know exactly like what I did with Shikue Shinryu (Ryushin? I can never remember which way round his surbname is) who was just a net pastiche of Naruto as a series (class-wise, straight monk/cleric), with the emphasis on shouting "Eight Trigrams: Sixteen Palm Strike" whenever I cast Inflict Critical Wounds and "Wind Style! Rasen Shuriken!" for Destruction and stuff and the titualr character in particular, and thus never shutting up about "wanting to be a big hero some day!"

Yes, I am one those players.

I am fully justified - the DM of that party's current character's background was a straight-up parody of the into to Fresh Prince of Bel Air, and he does almost all of his talking in rhyme...

[Prime32]

Nah, not interested in any of that; as I say my formative magical girl series involved burly 1980s men in a 22-minute action movie, and then Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, so it's mostly about the stupidly overblow transformation sequences that never gets old and being able to shout attacks a lot.

Y'know exactly like what I did with Shikue Shinryu (Ryushin? I can never remember which way round his surbname is) who was just a net pastiche of Naruto as a series (class-wise, straight monk/cleric), with the emphasis on shouting "Eight Trigrams: Sixteen Palm Strike" whenever I cast Inflict Critical Wounds and "Wind Style! Rasen Shuriken!" for Destruction and stuff and the titualr character in particular, and thus never shutting up about "wanting to be a big hero some day!"

Yes, I am one those players.

I am fully justified - the DM of that party's current character's background was a straight-up parody of the into to Fresh Prince of Bel Air, and he does almost all of his talking in rhyme...
Well the idea of superpowered heroes who change clothes instantly and intimidate foes with their hammy speeches and posing goes back way further than that (to the local equivalent of panto), to the point where Sailor Moon was considered a wacky genre mashup for having magical girls do it. :smallbiggrin: Not much of it got exported beyond Power Rangers, but a bunch of stuff people call "anime tropes" is old.

Heck, the biggest Japanese media franchise of the 19th century had a prettyboy samurai with water powers fighting a gruff samurai with fire powers as they compete to collect eight magic orbs, only for them to learn that they're actually long-lost brothers and the fire guy's has been tricked into working for the reincarnation of a demon slain by their grandfather. The same demon who is the source of their powers, because the ghost of En no Gyoja (basically the Japanese equivalent of Merlin) screwed around with the timeline so that when the demon's previous incarnation showed up to corrupt their mother it fell in love with her instead. There was even a thriving market for pornographic fanart of that scene.
The first entry of this (very long) series only got translated into English last year, and there's a bunch of similarly-influential stuff which has never made it out of the country.

If you want kabuki-style heroes, take a look at Tenra Bansho Zero for inspiration. The whole game is structured like the players are actors in a kabuki play - the GM and/or the dice hand you a script for what you're supposed to do, but also about fifty ways to flip the table by doing something over-the-top instead. It's a very fast-paced game which includes mechanics for dying or turning evil in cool ways (without excluding the player), shoving too many bullets into your katana to overload it with soul energy, strangling a guy with that specially-bred centipede you were hiding in your cloak along, etc.

[Remuko]

Heck, the biggest Japanese media franchise of the 19th century had a prettyboy samurai with water powers fighting a gruff samurai with fire powers as they compete to collect eight magic orbs, only for them to learn that they're actually long-lost brothers and the fire guy's has been tricked into working for the reincarnation of a demon slain by their grandfather. The same demon who is the source of their powers, because the ghost of En no Gyoja (basically the Japanese equivalent of Merlin) screwed around with the timeline so that when the demon's previous incarnation showed up to corrupt their mother it fell in love with her instead...
The first entry of this (very long) series only got translated into English last year, and there's a bunch of similarly-influential stuff which has never made it out of the country.

yo they should make an anime out of that. id totally watch that. that sounds dope.

[ericgrau]

I was idly browsing the Library of Metofitz last night, and I happened across the Magical Girl (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Magical_Girl) class. I am resisting the urge to immediately incorporate it on principle (because, frankly, the person who would want to play it most is me, and I am DM forever). But I wondered if anyone has either played one or seen one played and how it matches up.

Don't forget how awesome of a villain it would make. Well, at least until your reach the eye-rolls. Maybe best for her to not be re-occurring. Or have something prepared to say when she flees, and after the PCs fight her again they'll want to make doubly sure she isn't re-occurring.