PhoenixPhyre
2023-07-19, 07:20 PM
As part of my 5e overhaul, I'm looking at fleshing out and giving more color to the rules around perception (hearing, seeing, light, etc). At this stage, I'm more looking to clarify those rules rather than drastically change them. For the purposes of this thread, the other relevant rules are fairly stock and changes are irrelevant. These particular ones don't depend on the rest of the overhaul.
One change is changing "light" to "illumination" and separating darkness and heavily obscured areas.
Darkness creates an area where normal vision is impossible. It is as if it is heavily obscured, but one can see an illuminated object across any reasonable distance of darkness (whereas heavy obscuration blocks vision through the affected area).
I'm also giving a rule of thumb "how far can you see" table:
Generally, creatures with human-like vision can see brightly-illuminated creatures and objects from a substantial distance (assuming nothing blocks their sight). A rule of thumb is that creatures and objects are visible and recognizable at the following distances based on their size, assuming normal contrast with the background (ie not camouflaged):
\textbf{Size} & Visible at...
Objects smaller than 6 in x 6 in & 25 ft
Objects smaller than 1 ft x 1 ft & 50 ft
Tiny creatures & 100 ft
Small creatures or objects & 400 ft
Medium creatures or objects & 1/3 mile
Large creatures or objects & 1 mile
Huge+ creatures or objects & 2 miles
Mountains, the sun, etc & any (horizon limited)
Dim illumination or low-contrast backgrounds reduce the distance by at least half, stacking. So a small creature, dimly illuminated and against a low-contrast background or camouflaged, might only be visible out to 100 ft.
As a rule of thumb, a candle flame in the darkness can be seen (obstructions allowing) for at least 1.5 miles. Larger fires can be seen from further away, limited mostly by the horizon (about 4 miles if standing at ground level).
Adventurers can see the significant terrain features of the land about 2 miles from where they are, more if they high up (as much as 10 miles) or less if the area is heavily forested (as little as a few dozen feet).
This assumes that tiny creatures are roughly the same size as a housecat. Smaller ones are generally not considered objects or creatures of relevance, but would fit under the top two categories if they happened to be for some purpose. Note: Wildshape does not exist in this overhaul. And you can't summon an individual spider or other smaller-than-housecat creature via spells (in this overhaul).
And the limits for detection are more about recognition, rather than brute-force optic limits. You can resolve a medium-sized creature from a darn long way. But figuring out that it's a person? Much harder. And what matters 99% of the time.
Blindsight: now explicitly counts as vision.
For most humanoid (and similar) creatures, hearing is best at detecting \textit{presence and direction}, but not \textit{location} of creatures, and gives very little information about what they are doing. Background noise also plays a significant role in preventing hearing. As a rule of thumb, a Tiny or larger creature's movement produces enough noise to be audible out to at least 30 feet under normal conditions. If you cannot see the creature but can hear it, interactions that require pinpointing them are at disadvantage. If you can neither see nor hear the creature, they are hidden and you must guess their location (automatically failing any attempt to interact if you guess wrong). To prevent being heard within the normal hearing range, you need to have succeeded at a Hide attempt.
\textbf{Noise} & \textbf{Audible Distance }
Whispering or slow movement & 30 ft
Conversation or normal movement & 60 ft
Combat & 100 ft
Shouting, unamplified concerts, loud spells & 300 ft
Amplified concerts, explosions, thunder & 1 mile
Substantial background noise (noise at least two steps higher) generally moves the distance down one step. So fighting during a rock concert would be audible out to 60 ft (instead of 100 ft). If this would reduce the audible distance below 30 ft, cut the distance in half instead. Creatures with advanced hearing such as dogs, cats, bats, etc. can generally hear and locate sounds at double the distance or more.
\begin{DndComment}{Commentary}
This is fairly generous for those doing the perceiving. Adventurers and the foes they face are exceptional. If you're trying to get around normal commoners, trying to adjudicate such things too precisely can be more trouble than its worth and you should generally just use a Dexterity(Stealth) check instead.
The ranges here are more about the distance you can make out what's being said or discern the nature of the sound, rather than simply perceive that there is sound.
In indoor/underground conditions, sounds can generally be heard from further away but become muffled/indistinct sooner. So it's a tradeoff not considered here. If the echoes are particularly strong, increase the range by a step. If it's an absorbent area, decrease them by a step.
\end{DndComment}
For humanoid creatures, smell is even worse than hearing. You can detect, but not localize, exceptionally stinky creatures from a large distance as long as you're downwind. If you're upwind, you cannot detect anything. Smell is generally most useful for tracking creatures or detecting the presence of creatures (after which you use other senses).
Some creatures with exceptional olifactory capabilities (like bloodhounds) are capable of tracking even low-scent targets a very long distance.
One change is changing "light" to "illumination" and separating darkness and heavily obscured areas.
Darkness creates an area where normal vision is impossible. It is as if it is heavily obscured, but one can see an illuminated object across any reasonable distance of darkness (whereas heavy obscuration blocks vision through the affected area).
I'm also giving a rule of thumb "how far can you see" table:
Generally, creatures with human-like vision can see brightly-illuminated creatures and objects from a substantial distance (assuming nothing blocks their sight). A rule of thumb is that creatures and objects are visible and recognizable at the following distances based on their size, assuming normal contrast with the background (ie not camouflaged):
\textbf{Size} & Visible at...
Objects smaller than 6 in x 6 in & 25 ft
Objects smaller than 1 ft x 1 ft & 50 ft
Tiny creatures & 100 ft
Small creatures or objects & 400 ft
Medium creatures or objects & 1/3 mile
Large creatures or objects & 1 mile
Huge+ creatures or objects & 2 miles
Mountains, the sun, etc & any (horizon limited)
Dim illumination or low-contrast backgrounds reduce the distance by at least half, stacking. So a small creature, dimly illuminated and against a low-contrast background or camouflaged, might only be visible out to 100 ft.
As a rule of thumb, a candle flame in the darkness can be seen (obstructions allowing) for at least 1.5 miles. Larger fires can be seen from further away, limited mostly by the horizon (about 4 miles if standing at ground level).
Adventurers can see the significant terrain features of the land about 2 miles from where they are, more if they high up (as much as 10 miles) or less if the area is heavily forested (as little as a few dozen feet).
This assumes that tiny creatures are roughly the same size as a housecat. Smaller ones are generally not considered objects or creatures of relevance, but would fit under the top two categories if they happened to be for some purpose. Note: Wildshape does not exist in this overhaul. And you can't summon an individual spider or other smaller-than-housecat creature via spells (in this overhaul).
And the limits for detection are more about recognition, rather than brute-force optic limits. You can resolve a medium-sized creature from a darn long way. But figuring out that it's a person? Much harder. And what matters 99% of the time.
Blindsight: now explicitly counts as vision.
For most humanoid (and similar) creatures, hearing is best at detecting \textit{presence and direction}, but not \textit{location} of creatures, and gives very little information about what they are doing. Background noise also plays a significant role in preventing hearing. As a rule of thumb, a Tiny or larger creature's movement produces enough noise to be audible out to at least 30 feet under normal conditions. If you cannot see the creature but can hear it, interactions that require pinpointing them are at disadvantage. If you can neither see nor hear the creature, they are hidden and you must guess their location (automatically failing any attempt to interact if you guess wrong). To prevent being heard within the normal hearing range, you need to have succeeded at a Hide attempt.
\textbf{Noise} & \textbf{Audible Distance }
Whispering or slow movement & 30 ft
Conversation or normal movement & 60 ft
Combat & 100 ft
Shouting, unamplified concerts, loud spells & 300 ft
Amplified concerts, explosions, thunder & 1 mile
Substantial background noise (noise at least two steps higher) generally moves the distance down one step. So fighting during a rock concert would be audible out to 60 ft (instead of 100 ft). If this would reduce the audible distance below 30 ft, cut the distance in half instead. Creatures with advanced hearing such as dogs, cats, bats, etc. can generally hear and locate sounds at double the distance or more.
\begin{DndComment}{Commentary}
This is fairly generous for those doing the perceiving. Adventurers and the foes they face are exceptional. If you're trying to get around normal commoners, trying to adjudicate such things too precisely can be more trouble than its worth and you should generally just use a Dexterity(Stealth) check instead.
The ranges here are more about the distance you can make out what's being said or discern the nature of the sound, rather than simply perceive that there is sound.
In indoor/underground conditions, sounds can generally be heard from further away but become muffled/indistinct sooner. So it's a tradeoff not considered here. If the echoes are particularly strong, increase the range by a step. If it's an absorbent area, decrease them by a step.
\end{DndComment}
For humanoid creatures, smell is even worse than hearing. You can detect, but not localize, exceptionally stinky creatures from a large distance as long as you're downwind. If you're upwind, you cannot detect anything. Smell is generally most useful for tracking creatures or detecting the presence of creatures (after which you use other senses).
Some creatures with exceptional olifactory capabilities (like bloodhounds) are capable of tracking even low-scent targets a very long distance.