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SangoProduction
2023-07-20, 05:47 AM
I read a few of the nature sphere feats, and found them interesting. I don't remember if I covered them in my Spheres in Review or not, but I am looking for busy work until I can finally collapse into a pile of sleep.

Ratings:
0) Amazing. Top tier.
1) Good. You'd like it.
2) Not Good. Might take it.
3) Bad. Probably won't take it.



Formulae Geomancing (0): Wait what? This just gives you the Alchemist spell list? As a single feat? What? I'm reading this wrong, right?

Fertilize Nature (0): Most Plant and earth geomancing really love your concentration. Letting them freely persist for much of a combat is really nice.

Wildspeaker (0): Be able to speak with animals as a constant effect. And then gain 3 bonus abilities based on your other spheres. Entreat the Animals is really quite incredible. Alpha Presence can make trips through the woods substantially safer (in addition to being able to speak with animals), and Nature's Messenger is pretty cool.

Alloy Telekinesis (1): It gives a bonus attack (with recovered ore, which sucks) for just a +1 step to casting time, while also giving effective full BAB and CAM to damage.

Coastal Infusion (1): Assume that you are reliably near both land and a substantial body of water (...which is one hell of an assumption) and you get +2 CL to both water and earth geomancing.

Hemothermia (1): Smoldering Hemogloben does almost nothing. And its scaling is based on create, not alter - very different to fan the flame. Freeze Veins on the other hand causes them to be staggered, and take extra damage from falling prone, falling, or being hit by bludgeoning damage. And they can't take a 5 ft step. Nice.

Imbue With Nature (1): Spell Resistance getting you down? Well, blast away with 100% natural destructive blasts. Order now for a life time supply of essential oils.

Luminous Flame (1): Huh. This lets you maintain Affect Fire and a Bright Glow light effect as the same action... I may be wrong but that sounds build-enabling.

Mage of Ice and Rime (1): Each of the altered effects are relative bangers, in addition to cold resistance. Especially when you're actually in an icy campaign.

Primal Blast (1): Single-stats your destructive blasts (aka uses only casting ability modifier, not Dex), with some bonus damage sprinkled in as well. The best shapes don't use attack rolls though... Ignore that!

Sylvan Necromancy (1): Thematically? I love raising dead plants to fight for you. And you can probably find those a lot easier and with less controversy than a bunch of zombies. And if given reasonable care, the walking dead trees can look practically like treants without leaves, which are not uncommon depictions.

World In Miniature (1): Effectively the Create Element talent, but uses casting time instead of spell points. But they also make your extradimensional pockets better defined.

Alloy Creation (2): If Creation was your off-sphere, and Nature (metal) was your primary... first off, what's wrong with you, but it might work.

Alloy Enhancement (2): Action economy in exchange for 1 spell point. Neat. Now you just need a metal geomancing that you actually care about.

Fan the Flames (2) Does nothing until caster level 3. But from that point on, every about 2.5 levels adds +1d6 damage to the blast... around 1 bonus damage per level. Potentially an additional bonus damage per level, per round, for a spell point. Meh.

Smolder Resin (2): Teeny bit of bonus fire damage on pummel.

Spirit Form (2): Given that you've got 2 decently long-duration effects in the Spirit and the shapeshift... the action economy efficiency wouldn't seem to matter?

Terrain Strider (2): +4 to save against nature sphere abilities from a package you possess. Honestly, really specific. Especially if the campaign is not expressly Spheres of Power.

Steam Geomancing (3): Fire / Cold damage deals half one and half the other... That's unironically interesting, even if underwhelming. (This just isn't the damage sphere.)

Supernatural Elements (3): Lets you change the damage type of the sphere's damage... Again, not a particularly damaging sphere.

Material Infusion (3): Lets you blast silver spoons at your werewolf. Why wouldn't you just use this feat to grab a better destructive blast? No idea. I don't know how metal package manages to disappoint at every turn.

Terrain Focus (3): It's the Favored Enemy type of deal, where it's nice (in fact very nice) if you know that your campaign is super specific to a type of terrain. Oh and it requires Terrain Casting, which I despise on an RP grounds.

Water Manipulator (3): I see actually no point to the Water Creature fey blessing. And thus this feat. I don't think this feat actually really does anything to it, with similar durations and all.


March of the Treants (?): Letting trees uproot and move? Completely indeterminant value. Legitimately. For Pummel's purposes maybe good, not necessary, or even outright detrimental, depending on circumstances and DMs. Moving trees around is fun though, on an RP side.

Nizaris
2023-07-20, 10:19 AM
I will never not sing the praises for Master of Ice and Rime if for no other reason than the Nature's Weapon upgrade. I make a ton of use of it in the current spheres campaign I'm in, disarmed or weapon sundered by a SoM enemy? Make a new one. In a social situation where I can't carry a weapon into? A weapon is always a free action away. No need to spend the move action switching to a ranged weapon against flying enemies, free loaded heavy crossbow every round. On a full CL gish build, I can avoid spending money on upgrading a weapon since it improves on its own, slightly behind on the enhancement bonus compared to martials that buy a +3 while I'm on a +2, but I can upgrade my belt and other core items faster with the gold I've saved and I get bonus cold damage to boot.

Everything else the feat does is just a really nice bonus.

Ramza00
2023-07-20, 10:38 AM
Does these feats change in power if one is doing the Frostweaver Spec / Archetype for Incantater? (Or it’s elemental variants)

SangoProduction
2023-07-20, 12:32 PM
Does these feats change in power if one is doing the Frostweaver Spec / Archetype for Incantater? (Or it’s elemental variants)

I looked at them in a total vacuum.

Rynjin
2023-07-20, 12:51 PM
I read a few of the nature sphere feats, and found them interesting. I don't remember if I covered them in my Spheres in Review or not, but I am looking for busy work until I can finally collapse into a pile of sleep.

Ratings:
0) Amazing. Top tier.
1) Good. You'd like it.
2) Not Good. Might take it.
3) Bad. Probably won't take it.



Formulae Geomancing (0): Wait what? This just gives you the Alchemist spell list? As a single feat? What? I'm reading this wrong, right?
[B]

Haven't looked over the rest yet, but this one isn't QUITE as nuts as it sounds. It's essentially the Spellbook Mastery (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/spellcrafting#:~:text=Spellbook%20Mastery,-Prerequisites%3A%20Spellcrafting%2C%20casting&text=You%20may%20attempt%20to%20cast,happens%2C%20 chosen%20by%20the%20GM.) Feat but you can't do it spontaneously.

Ramza00
2023-07-20, 04:35 PM
I looked at them in a total vacuum.
Fair, but I was asking from the non fair perspective :smallamused: for I have never investigated Nature seriously or the feats. Feels too much Avatar the Last Airbender so it has not caught my eye, even if I do like the fair-y 🧚

SangoProduction
2023-07-20, 05:20 PM
Fair, but I was asking from the non fair perspective :smallamused: for I have never investigated Nature seriously or the feats. Feels too much Avatar the Last Airbender so it has not caught my eye, even if I do like the fair-y 🧚

I keep meaning to work with that archetype. And I even had a character in the works that used it. But when I keep thinking that "Wow, I am giving up so many talents for this," It's really just actually really rather annoying. Like maybe I'd play it if I were level 10, and had a relatively narrow character concept, so I had all the talents I could want, then I might be tempted to use the archetype. Even though I can play non-Incanters just fine, accepting that I am not getting the bonus talents. Just, playing an archetype that loses those talents as the class feels awful.

I'm not noticing any explicitly synergistic with the class.

Ramza00
2023-07-21, 04:04 PM
My brain is tired and I need to work with the actual build that will see play with its magic items. 🪄 yet let’s play and think this out

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A Sphere Witch 1 / Sphere Wizard 1 followed by 18 levels of Sphere Arcanistthe craftsmanwould be interesting with Formulae Geomancing

reflavor it as natural alchemyof the universe and taping into the Tarot // 22 divine letters of God / Thoth. Instead of drinking potions you are enchanting oneself with the magic runes of the universe learned from Spell Tomes. Throw on some quick study and moldable talents and all that sphere goodness. The reason why to Reflavor Alchemist as a Tarot Card user is it flavors so well with the Fate Sphere motifs and Time / Life Magic. 🤔 (see below for more)

Your Arcanist formulae are at hd 011st, 032nd, 063rd, 094th, 125th, 156th if you make your sphere wizard spec be Nature and thus you cast your caster level 1 plus your HD. Aka you are not that far behind a Vanican wizard or sorcerer with spell access even if they are casting more spells per day. At the same time you are a high caster spheres.

Boro Beads work with Formulae Geomancing, and the first three exploits for any sphere arcanist be quick study, wild secret, and craft wondrous item so one should be making items and boro beads as soon as possible. The 2nd level Alchemical Allocation formulae allows for 2 Spell points to duplicate any 1st to 3rd level Vanican potion on you and the 4k boro bead (which you craft for 2k) allows one to make those potions into wondrous items.

One downside of Sphere Arcanist is you have less talents per day compared to a Sphere Wizard, Witch, Incanter, etc. Well a Formulae Geomancer can do contextual formulae’s but also buffs and allowing your Arcanist to make by with 1/2 HD Moldable Talents and 1/2 HD Casting Talents. The buffs remain even if you swap out your Moldable talents for they are paid by Formulae Geomancing feat.


Ritual Caster those 4 feats, or going Bokor is long term stronger in spell levels 5 and 6 aka level 10+ but the nice thing is this is playable at level 1 to 15 in an elegant fashion.




Likewise with Legend of the Spheres (play test) one can easily get Wizard Scrolls for 2 faction talents access (base faction and then the scroll supply Talent), Wizard Scrolls allow you to teach yourself formulae if that formulae is both Wizard and Alchemist. Likewise one can use those Wizard Scrolls to do things, and while SoG does this without LoS one can trade half one’s magic talents for SoG talents. Or one can do the Skillful faction (or both) and get Fomulae books that way and have access to the Bard scroll list not the Wizard one

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This is an elegant Thoth / Hermetic AlchemistHermes three times blessed… Hermes Trismegistus build like all those Renaissance Nerds of Yore. ☤

Seerow
2023-07-21, 04:14 PM
Alloy Enhancement (2): Action economy in exchange for 1 spell point. Neat. Now you just need a metal geomancing that you actually care about.


Are we just pretending Reforge Mastery does not exist as a talent? Give a weapon +1-3 crit threat range, or +5-15 ft of reach (?!) is honestly a pretty bonkers buff. There's a few pretty good enhance talents to place on weapons, this would be a pretty nice combo for anyone trying to do a subtle-magic style Mage Knight.

Ady
2023-08-14, 12:30 AM
...Terrain Casting, which I despise on an RP grounds.

As a huge fan of spheres who likes Terrain Casting specifically because of its worldbuilding function, I'm curious what your experience with it is that led you to this opinion. 🤔

SangoProduction
2023-08-14, 12:52 AM
As a huge fan of spheres who likes Terrain Casting specifically because of its worldbuilding function, I'm curious what your experience with it is that led you to this opinion. 🤔

I personally just hate the idea of leaving behind functionally permanent areas of devastation. If it was like a week or a month's devastation, sure. That's a bit excessive, but at least there's a chance that by the end of the campaign, it would heal over. But a year?
Mechanically, it just means you move every turn. And if you have a means of 10-ft stepping, or otherwise moving without using your action, it's functionally not a drawback. So, I don't really like it on a mechanical level either. But the big thing is just the RP. I only took it once on a "bloodbender" in an evil campaign. Didn't make much of an impact, but I just don't like it.

thethird
2023-08-14, 03:29 AM
Sylvan Necromancy (1): Thematically? I love raising dead plants to fight for you. And you can probably find those a lot easier and with less controversy than a bunch of zombies. And if given reasonable care, the walking dead trees can look practically like treants without leaves, which are not uncommon depictions.

Sylvan Necromancy is great. What's a limiting factor for necromancers everywhere? Corpse availability.

What does the first sentence of Sylvan Necromancy read? You can use your (plant) geomancing abilities on corpses instead of plants.

Create Nature (plant) normally creates a tree. Now can it be used to create a corpse? Maybe? You aren't technically using create nature on a plant, you are just creating the plant. But you can create trees. Cut those trees down and you get dead trees. That you can reanimate.

How many undead do you want?

Note that the stats of an animated object are determined by its size, so being able to create bigger trees will mean stronger undead. Can you use corpse manipulation on a dead tree? Is a dead tree a corpse? Yes? Then you can make it bigger, and reshape it however you like, wooden skeletal dryads? A wooden duck?

vasilidor
2023-08-15, 03:42 AM
There is no rounding on Formulae Geomancy and the requirements for the alchemist formula so you get level 1 stuff at level 3, level 2 at 6 etc.. And it says that you need an alchemist book, So it would seem that you are limited by what you have in the book, without having the ability of learning formulae automatically. Each preparation requires a spell point to use.

As far as costs go, you need to have 3 geomancy packages and must be a full caster for the nature sphere. Not much for what you are getting. Heck of a lot of versatility here.

Ady
2023-08-31, 02:01 PM
I personally just hate the idea of leaving behind functionally permanent areas of devastation. If it was like a week or a month's devastation, sure. That's a bit excessive, but at least there's a chance that by the end of the campaign, it would heal over. But a year?
Mechanically, it just means you move every turn. And if you have a means of 10-ft stepping, or otherwise moving without using your action, it's functionally not a drawback. So, I don't really like it on a mechanical level either. But the big thing is just the RP. I only took it once on a "bloodbender" in an evil campaign. Didn't make much of an impact, but I just don't like it.

That's fair. It's true that it lasting a year is drastic, and it might be fitting to reduce that for the drawback base. I think the worldbuilding part of it comes if the GM has NPCs that use it and has areas and battlefields covered in drained terrain. Due to the large amount of drawback feat support, it can allow it to be used as an offensive tool with devastating ecological impact. Much like other Drawbacks like Area Bound, it functions as an explanation for how magic works in the world and not just for players.

In general, if you play with Drawbacks in a mixed campaign with spheres and non-spheres, or a campaign where the GM doesn't really think about the drawbacks, a lot of them end up being rather inconsequential, but that's not necessarily an indicator of their worldbuilding potential.