Need help demonproofing my aberrant mind sorcerer

[Magicspook]

Hi folks,

I am currently levelling my aerrant mind sorcerer from level 11 to 13. Next session, we'll head to hell (homebrew setting, so all demons and devils and homebrew are possible encounters). Since everybody and their mother has magic resistance in the lower planes, I am gonna need to demonproof my build.

Problem is, ALL my spells are saving throw spells, and all of them deal psychic damage (I replaced all the eldritch horror elements from my subclass with psychic spells like synaptic static and tasha's mind whip). The only spell that I have that doesn't require a saving throw is telekinesis. Looking at the spell list, there are very few good attack spells, and none of them deal psychic damage. It's a hard line for me that all my abilities must be telepathic or telekinetic abilities (you know the archetype)
EDIT: I do have greater invisibility, so I have a reliable way to get advantage on attacks, truesight notwithstanding

Luckily, I do have some wiggle room. I can choose a feat (currently have my eye on fey touched for misty step and command), I gain 7th level spells and I can swap 2 spells, get one new one and swap 2 subclass spells. Tasha's also allows me to swap one metamagic if need be. Furthermore, my spellcasting stat is already 20 so my spellsave DC will be 18.

Got any advice on how to build my character to not be useless in hell?

[RazorChain]

Psychic damage is great in hell as most Devils have resistance or immunity to most energy spells and poisons.

Maybe you should focus on buffing or using spells that affect multiple creatures as some of them are bound to fail their saves regardless of magic resistance

[Unoriginal]

Hi folks,

I am currently levelling my aerrant mind sorcerer from level 11 to 13. Next session, we'll head to hell (homebrew setting, so all demons and devils and homebrew are possible encounters). Since everybody and their mother has magic resistance in the lower planes, I am gonna need to demonproof my build.

Problem is, ALL my spells are saving throw spells, and all of them deal psychic damage (I replaced all the eldritch horror elements from my subclass with psychic spells like synaptic static and tasha's mind whip). The only spell that I have that doesn't require a saving throw is telekinesis. Looking at the spell list, there are very few good attack spells, and none of them deal psychic damage. It's a hard line for me that all my abilities must be telepathic or telekinetic abilities (you know the archetype)
EDIT: I do have greater invisibility, so I have a reliable way to get advantage on attacks, truesight notwithstanding

Luckily, I do have some wiggle room. I can choose a feat (currently have my eye on fey touched for misty step and command), I gain 7th level spells and I can swap 2 spells, get one new one and swap 2 subclass spells. Tasha's also allows me to swap one metamagic if need be. Furthermore, my spellcasting stat is already 20 so my spellsave DC will be 18.

Got any advice on how to build my character to not be useless in hell?

Could you post your whole PC?

As in, stats, features you chose, equipment, current spell list, etc

[J-H]

A quick check says most of them have darkvision 120', and magical darkness doesn't impede their sight. Consider cloud spells like Fog Cloud, and its damaging older cousin, Stinking Cloud. Both block vision, and thus inhibit teleportation and ranged attacks. Fog Cloud can be upcast to be huge.
Insect Swarm also causes disruption to vision, in addition to doing some damage.

Magic missile pretty much always works.

Spread out your cantrip choices so you can do some reliable base damage no matter what they resist, or use ones with good riders. Acid Splash is multi-target, Ray of Frost to slow enemies down, and is an attack roll, etc. Toll the Dead is still good, as necrotic resistance may not be present, except that it gives a saving throw.

[KorvinStarmast]

Need help demonproofing my aberrant mind sorcerer Convince another player in the party to play paladin or cleric. :smallwink:


levelling my aberrant mind sorcerer from level 11 to 13.

Problem is, ALL my spells are saving throw spells, and all of them deal psychic damage (I replaced all the eldritch horror elements from my subclass with psychic spells like synaptic static and tasha's mind whip). IIRC, those both have riders on a failed save, so good choices.

The only spell that I have that doesn't require a saving throw is telekinesis.
Great spell. Have you considered wall of force as a battlefield control spell? No saving throw.

If you are allowed to swap a cantrip, is toll the dead on your cantrip list?
While some demons are resistant to necrotic, I don't think many devils are.


Luckily, I do have some wiggle room. I can choose a feat (currently have my eye on fey touched for misty step and command) Great feat, I've got it on my warlock and have not regretted it.

, I gain 7th level spells and I can swap 2 spells, get one new one and swap 2 subclass spells.
Prismatic Spray. :smallbiggrin: It's great against groups, but there is a bit of RNG in terms of the effects maybe being resisted ...

my spellcasting stat is already 20 so my spellsave DC will be 18.

Not sure how your pace of combat tends to be, but if you hit them with mind sliver first, their saving throws get dropped for the next spell cast. Even if a demon or devil has magic resistance/adv on saves, with your high Spell Save DC that 1d4 malus is handy.

Might be a good tactic versus single monsters that you need to neutralize.

What magic items do you have?

[Sigreid]

What will be best depends somewhat on the mission. Why is your group going? Is it a stealth mission? Diplomacy? Search and destroy?

[RogueJK]

General considerations for a spellcaster who knows they're going to be fighting demons/devils:

A) Skip standard elemental damage spells. Demons and devils will frequently be resistant/immune to fire, cold, acid, poison, and lightning. Thunder is potentially more effective. Radiant, necrotic, force, or psychic are even better.

B) Have some attack roll spells, or at least some "save for half damage" spells. Your enemies will have Magic Resistance, plus typically decent stats, which means "save or suck"/"all or nothing" spells frequently won't land. Without having access to your whole spell list, it's hard to say how well you have this covered already. (You mentioned Synaptic Static, which is a very solid choice since it does psychic damage, it does half damage on a save, plus it is an AoE so there's a greater chance per casting of at least some of the enemies in the group failing their save and taking full damage - plus the rider.)

This extends to cantrips too, so you have a resourceless option for turns when you don't want to burn another spell slot. Since you gain an ASI at 12, using the TCoE Sorcerer ability "Sorcerous Versatility" you can swap out an existing cantrip for something else. So if you don't already have an attack roll cantrip that does other-than-elemental damage, swap one of your cantrips for Chill Touch. It's an attack roll, and it does necrotic damage. Perfect for attacking demons/devils.

As mentioned, there's a bit of a dearth of straight up attack roll spells for Sorcerers outside of cantrips. And considering your cantrips are already going to be doing 3 dice, I wouldn't bother with a low level single target attack roll spell like Chromatic Orb. But it could be worth picking up at least one higher level spell that involves attack rolls, such the 7th level Crown of Stars, which does Radiant damage on a successful attack roll, allows you to repeat the attacks over several turns, and most importantly is not a Concentration spell and it lasts 1 hour. A summoning spell like Summon Aberration, Summon Draconic Spirit, Animate Objects, or Bigby's Hand would also fit this category, since they summon minions who make attack rolls. Wall of Light is also a consideration, combining save-for-half initial radiant damage with a repeatable attack roll radiant damage option in subsequent turns.

So for example, in a big combat you could be Concentrating on a Summoned Aberration Beholderkin doing 1d8+6 ranged psychic damage, firing bonus action Crowns of Stars blasts for 4d12 ranged radiant damage, and launching 3d8 ranged necrotic damage Chill Touches using your action. All three damage sources involve ranged spell attacks, and all three deal damage types that the demons/devils won't be resistant/immune to, and all three can be launched from up to 120' away. If all three attack rolls land, you can be laying down an average of 50 damage per turn.

C) Have some other combat spells that don't rely on saves or damage. Buffs for teammates like Haste or Protection from Energy are good options here. Or spells that create walls, or areas of difficult terrain, are good for non-flying enemies.




Magic missile pretty much always works.

Except it's not available to Sorcerers...

[Magicspook]

Psychic damage is great in hell as most Devils have resistance or immunity to most energy spells and poisons.

Maybe you should focus on buffing or using spells that affect multiple creatures as some of them are bound to fail their saves regardless of magic resistance
Thank you! I do have some AOE spells (synaptic static, tasha's mind whip, slow, and catapult) and I have greater invisibility, which I could potentially cast on the elven accuracy rogue for max mayhem. Maybe I should also add haste, and I could potentially replace command (from fey touched) with bless!


Could you post your whole PC?

As in, stats, features you chose, equipment, current spell list, etc

sure thing! Here is my 11th level sheet plus the 13th level sheet that I amde before I realised I needed additional pylons demon-slaying capability
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iuHG2XeXMOeVmoweScbuoyZ2ljvD1spn/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YWyJxTrbgMx1MzBoMzSJgtkYWitUlrqV/view?usp=drive_link

The basics if you don't wanna sift through my char sheet:
homebrew race system, so no PHB race
lvl 13 aberrant mind sorcerer which uses int instead of charisma (with DM permission)
heightened, twinned and quickened spell metamagics
fade away and telekinetic feats, and I'm considering taking fey touched
ring of mind shielding for roleplay purposes, but its effects heavily overlap with my subclass features
cantrips: mind sliver, mage hand, mending, message, true strike, prestidigitation, friends, [1 unassigned cantrip]
1st level: comprehend languages, dissonant whispers, catapult, shield, command
2nd level: calm emotions, detect thoughts, blindness/deafness, mind spike, tasha's mind whip, misty step
3rd level: enemies abound, sending, slow
4th level: charm monster, locate creature, greater invisibility, raulothym's psychic lance
5th level: synaptic static, modify memory, dominate person, telekinesis
6th level: mental prison
7th level: etherealness, reverse gravity



A quick check says most of them have darkvision 120', and magical darkness doesn't impede their sight. Consider cloud spells like Fog Cloud, and its damaging older cousin, Stinking Cloud. Both block vision, and thus inhibit teleportation and ranged attacks. Fog Cloud can be upcast to be huge.
Insect Swarm also causes disruption to vision, in addition to doing some damage.

Magic missile pretty much always works.

Spread out your cantrip choices so you can do some reliable base damage no matter what they resist, or use ones with good riders. Acid Splash is multi-target, Ray of Frost to slow enemies down, and is an attack roll, etc. Toll the Dead is still good, as necrotic resistance may not be present, except that it gives a saving throw.
The thing is, none of those spells really fit my character. See above for m current spell list. As you can see, none of them involve slingining glowing bolts of magic at people. I am open to taking the transmuted spell metamagic and reflavouring an existing spell, but only if I have to.

Thanks for the suggestions though!


Convince another player in the party to play paladin or cleric. :smallwink:

IIRC, those both have riders on a failed save, so good choices.

Great spell. Have you considered wall of force as a battlefield control spell? No saving throw.

If you are allowed to swap a cantrip, is toll the dead on your cantrip list?
While some demons are resistant to necrotic, I don't think many devils are.

Great feat, I've got it on my warlock and have not regretted it.

Prismatic Spray. :smallbiggrin: It's great against groups, but there is a bit of RNG in terms of the effects maybe being resisted ...

Not sure how your pace of combat tends to be, but if you hit them with mind sliver first, their saving throws get dropped for the next spell cast. Even if a demon or devil has magic resistance/adv on saves, with your high Spell Save DC that 1d4 malus is handy.

Might be a good tactic versus single monsters that you need to neutralize.

What magic items do you have?

Thanks for suggesting wall of force! I missed that one, and it fits okay with my character. Whelp, not a sorcerer spell and not one I can take with my subclass feature either. Considering toll the dead: it's another saving throw. If I'm gonna force a devil to make a saving throw, I wanna do a lot more damage than 3d12 to it.

Regarding mind sliver: Indeed, my tactic against a previous demon was to mind sliver it for the bonus 1d4 subtraction, and then to blast it with a quickened heightened psychic lance. It was hella expensive in terms of sorcery points though, so I can only really keep that up for 2 rounds or so. And the DM is going to come up with some demon corruption mechanic when we rest, so I'd rather not have to whine for a long rest after every combat.


What will be best depends somewhat on the mission. Why is your group going? Is it a stealth mission? Diplomacy? Search and destroy?

We are a diverse party and we have various reasons for going. We are a 'bad guy' party of elf special agents with various alignments ranging from lawful evil to neutral good, with the purpose of destroying the human empire. One player wants to free his beloved (a previous enemy) from a demonic curse that forces her to try and kill him. This is also a group objective, since we are 'collecting dreams' for an allied archfey by basically fulfilling them, and one of the dreams on our shopping list is a dream of love. Two other players (inluding me) are merely passing through hell on our way to the plains of asphodel, because we want to talk to dead NPCs (one of which we killed ourselves, oops). I believe there are more motivations for our journey but I cannot remember right now.

So we are not assaulting hell by any means, and we have very little beef with most demons at this point (except the one that made a contract with our player's love interest). In fact, we just killed an angel two sessions ago so we will probably get some credit for that. However, I do not know the level of hostility we can expect to find in hell. But I cannot rule out that we will talk more than fight our way though.

[Sigreid]

Thank you! I do have some AOE spells (synaptic static, tasha's mind whip, slow, and catapult) and I have greater invisibility, which I could potentially cast on the elven accuracy rogue for max mayhem. Maybe I should also add haste, and I could potentially replace command (from fey touched) with bless!



sure thing! Here is my 11th level sheet plus the 13th level sheet that I amde before I realised I needed additional pylons demon-slaying capability
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iuHG2XeXMOeVmoweScbuoyZ2ljvD1spn/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YWyJxTrbgMx1MzBoMzSJgtkYWitUlrqV/view?usp=drive_link

The basics if you don't wanna sift through my char sheet:
homebrew race system, so no PHB race
lvl 13 aberrant mind sorcerer which uses int instead of charisma (with DM permission)
heightened, twinned and quickened spell metamagics
fade away and telekinetic feats, and I'm considering taking fey touched
ring of mind shielding for roleplay purposes, but its effects heavily overlap with my subclass features
cantrips: mind sliver, mage hand, mending, message, true strike, prestidigitation, friends, [1 unassigned cantrip]
1st level: comprehend languages, dissonant whispers, catapult, shield, command
2nd level: calm emotions, detect thoughts, blindness/deafness, mind spike, tasha's mind whip, misty step
3rd level: enemies abound, sending, slow
4th level: charm monster, locate creature, greater invisibility, raulothym's psychic lance
5th level: synaptic static, modify memory, dominate person, telekinesis
6th level: mental prison
7th level: etherealness, reverse gravity



The thing is, none of those spells really fit my character. See above for m current spell list. As you can see, none of them involve slingining glowing bolts of magic at people. I am open to taking the transmuted spell metamagic and reflavouring an existing spell, but only if I have to.

Thanks for the suggestions though!



Thanks for suggesting wall of force! I missed that one, and it fits okay with my character. Considering toll the dead: it's another saving throw. If I'm gonna force a devil to make a saving throw, I wanna do a lot more damage than 3d12 to it.

Regarding mind sliver: Indeed, my tactic against a previous demon was to mind sliver it for the bonus 1d4 subtraction, and then to blast it with a quickened heightened psychic lance. It was hella expensive in terms of sorcery points though, so I can only really keep that up for 2 rounds or so. And the DM is going to come up with some demon corruption mechanic when we rest, so I'd rather not have to whine for a long rest after every combat.



We are a diverse party and we have various reasons for going. We are a 'bad guy' party of elf special agents with various alignments ranging from lawful evil to neutral good, with the purpose of destroying the human empire. One player wants to free his beloved (a previous enemy) from a demonic curse that forces her to try and kill him. This is also a group objective, since we are 'collecting dreams' for an allied archfey by basically fulfilling them, and one of the dreams on our shopping list is a dream of love. Two other players (inluding me) are merely passing through hell on our way to the plains of asphodel, because we want to talk to dead NPCs (one of which we killed ourselves, oops). I believe there are more motivations for our journey but I cannot remember right now.

So we are not assaulting hell by any means, and we have very little beef with most demons at this point (except the one that made a contract with our player's love itnterest). In fact, we just killed an angel two sessions ago so we will probably get some credit for that. However, I do not know the level of hostility we can expect to find in hell. But I cannot rule out that we will talk more than fight our way though.
Then I might suggest enhance attribute, uses on charisma; and treat it like mostly a diplomacy mission. Build relationships more than you pick fights.