Loki Season 2 - First Trailer

[Palanan]

Just out:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dug56u8NN7g


It does look fun, apart from the inevitable appearance of at least one Kang, whom I could do without.

I'm pretty low on the MCU right now, but this might be a solitary bright spot. Obi-Wan K'Loki, you're my only hope....

[Errorname]

I've always had mixed feelings about Marvel's Loki as a character generally, but Loki was probably the best of the Disney+ shows. Low bar to clear, definitely not achieving it's full potential, but I at least bothered to keep up with it.

[gbaji]

Well. And it feels like they're trying to do the whole "Kang the Conquerer" bit as a background thing going on in phase5 (and honestly, a fair bit of multiverse stuff), but then also don't seem to be committing to it (like they did with Thanos and the infinity stones). It's possible that it'll line up and move in a solid direction at some point, but at least up until now, it's been kinda hard to see where they're going with any of this.

I'm hopeful that the second season of Loki will maybe shed some light. Maybe. Or just be another part of the build up stuff. I honestly think part of the problem with phase4/5 is that they seem to be "building towards something", but have like 3 or 4 very different "somethings". Each can be fun and interesting on their own, and maybe that's just how we're supposed to consume/enjoy it. Not sure.

But I did enjoy season one for its very Kirby-esque style, so I'll probably enjoy this one as well.

[Rodin]

Well. And it feels like they're trying to do the whole "Kang the Conquerer" bit as a background thing going on in phase5 (and honestly, a fair bit of multiverse stuff), but then also don't seem to be committing to it (like they did with Thanos and the infinity stones). It's possible that it'll line up and move in a solid direction at some point, but at least up until now, it's been kinda hard to see where they're going with any of this.

I'm hopeful that the second season of Loki will maybe shed some light. Maybe. Or just be another part of the build up stuff. I honestly think part of the problem with phase4/5 is that they seem to be "building towards something", but have like 3 or 4 very different "somethings". Each can be fun and interesting on their own, and maybe that's just how we're supposed to consume/enjoy it. Not sure.

But I did enjoy season one for its very Kirby-esque style, so I'll probably enjoy this one as well.

They're leaning into Kang a lot more than they did for Thanos.

Thanos himself only appears in a total of 5 MCU movies, and this includes Infinity War/Endgame. Two of those appearances are in post-credit scenes, making his only involvement in the main plot a brief appearance in Guardians of the Galaxy. I would also add in the appearance of his ship in the post-credits of Thor: Ragnarok, which is a direct lead-in to Infinity War.

There's a lot of hinting about the Infinity Stones and how they're kinda important, but it's very much background information and we don't learn of Thanos's plan until Infinity War. We just know he wants them.

Kang, on the other hand, has had a ton of lore dumped about him. We got his full backstory in Loki Season 1. He's the main villain of Antman and the Wasp. We've seen more Kangs in post-credit scenes. We're going to get more before Kang's main appearance in the Infinity War equivalent movie.

Essentially, what we have here is Phase 1 and 2 of the MCU if Loki had info-dumped about Thanos and the Infinity Stones back in the Avengers. I'm not sure it's working as well.

[Murk]

Oh, I feel the opposite way about Kang!
They are absolutely committing to him more than to Thanos, and I think that's a good thing. Aside from issues with the actor, of course.

My main complaint about Infinity War was that the movie still had to introduce Thanos and his crew. They had had three phases and hinted at Thanos a lot, but we still didn't know his motivation, didn't know his henchmen, didn't know his plans... all of this was introduced in Infinity War itself, which made it much more bloated than necessary.

I think the beauty of the first Avengers is that its heroes had all been introduced before the movie; the villain had been introduced; the macguffin had been introduced -- all the groundwork has been laid. We jump right into the character interactions and the action.

I would love to see that again with Kang. Make sure we already know who he is, what he's doing, how he's doing it, why he's doing it, and who are going to try to stop him. Then you can spend the whole final movie with just the things that matter, unbothered by plot exposition or worldbuilding.

[GloatingSwine]

Essentially, what we have here is Phase 1 and 2 of the MCU if Loki had info-dumped about Thanos and the Infinity Stones back in the Avengers. I'm not sure it's working as well.

It's working about as well as the Borg worked in Voyager.

Kang has been a major part of two stories now, and despite each time being the baddest of all the Kangs, either the one that won or the one the rest had to exile, he's gone out like a chump.

By the time we get to Kang Dynasty who's going to care any more? Basically everyone can and will have solod Kang by that point.


Well. And it feels like they're trying to do the whole "Kang the Conquerer" bit as a background thing going on in phase5 (and honestly, a fair bit of multiverse stuff), but then also don't seem to be committing to it (like they did with Thanos and the infinity stones). It's possible that it'll line up and move in a solid direction at some point, but at least up until now, it's been kinda hard to see where they're going with any of this.

They're wandering in the vague direction of the Fantastic Four whilst expending a lot of Fantastic Four stories on other characters (Quantumania felt like a story with a Fantastic Four shaped hole with Ant-Man awkwardly wedged into it, and the original Super Skrull was a combination of their powers to fight against them).

[Trixie_One]

Only thing that has raised my interest so far is that Ke Huy Quan is going to be in it.


It's working about as well as the Borg worked in Voyager.

The MCU wishes it was handling Kang as well as the Borg worked in Voyager. They at least got some of their better episodes out of them like Scorpion, Dark Frontier, and The Raven along with their best character. So far Kang gave a loooong speech, got stabbed, and all the Quantumania nonsense which is basically like if Voyager had just jumped straight to the utter dreck that was Unimatrix Zero.

[Tyndmyr]

I've always had mixed feelings about Marvel's Loki as a character generally, but Loki was probably the best of the Disney+ shows. Low bar to clear, definitely not achieving it's full potential, but I at least bothered to keep up with it.

I'm cautiously optimistic. The MCU has been really mixed of late, but of all the Disney+ shows, Loki season 1 was the strongest, IMO. I definitely get why that and What If were the two shows that were renewed for a second season.

And the trailer genuinely looks fun. Hiddlestone is engaging to watch, and the premise seems decent enough.


Oh, I feel the opposite way about Kang!
They are absolutely committing to him more than to Thanos, and I think that's a good thing. Aside from issues with the actor, of course.

My main complaint about Infinity War was that the movie still had to introduce Thanos and his crew. They had had three phases and hinted at Thanos a lot, but we still didn't know his motivation, didn't know his henchmen, didn't know his plans... all of this was introduced in Infinity War itself, which made it much more bloated than necessary.

I agree that they have committed more to Kang, but disagree that it is good. First, the actor troubles make this complicated. Not really Disney's fault, but it still sucks. They can swap him out, I guess, but more face time makes that more awkward.

Second, I don't think Infinity War was bloated. It was probably one of the best MCU films to date, and making it Thanos's story gave it a really nice cohesive storyline all in one package. Spreading that among too many films and TV shows is riskier. People are going to miss things, or forget them. Does anybody really love things like explaining the return of the Emperor in Fortnite in Star Wars? The more you spread the story around, the more annoying it can be for the viewer to go mine for story bits instead of just enjoying it.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Kang's initial portrayal in Loki, I just...don't think it's likely to work as well as Thanos for making a coherent arc and finale.

[Psyren]

I was excited for this even before they put Ke Huy Quan in it. Sold!

And now I'm curious about the TVA's mission in a multiversal world. When their overarching mission was to cultivate a singular timeline that was pretty straightforward, but now...

[gbaji]

They're leaning into Kang a lot more than they did for Thanos.

I'm not seeing that at all.


Thanos himself only appears in a total of 5 MCU movies, and this includes Infinity War/Endgame. Two of those appearances are in post-credit scenes, making his only involvement in the main plot a brief appearance in Guardians of the Galaxy. I would also add in the appearance of his ship in the post-credits of Thor: Ragnarok, which is a direct lead-in to Infinity War.

There's a lot of hinting about the Infinity Stones and how they're kinda important, but it's very much background information and we don't learn of Thanos's plan until Infinity War. We just know he wants them.

But that's the point. Every single film was either an origin story for a main character to set the stage for Avengers or directly involved on of the infinity stones. Even if we didn't know Thanos yet, we knew there was a common thread, and they were these super powerful "things" they kept running in to. The tessaract in Captain America. The Aether in Thor2 (otherwise a pretty forgettable film though). The power stone in Guardians of the Galaxy. The mind stone in Avengers. The time stone in Dr. Strange (to be fair, inserted a bit later on, but early enough to be used in Infinity War). So even while building up their initial roster of characters, and setting the stage for the first Avengers film, they laid the groundwork for Thanos and the infinity gauntlet. Basically in phase1 and 2, 1/3rd of the films involved the stones. In phase 3, over half of the film projects involved either a stone or Thanos directly (which is not surprising given that's when it all comes to fruition).


Kang, on the other hand, has had a ton of lore dumped about him. We got his full backstory in Loki Season 1. He's the main villain of Antman and the Wasp. We've seen more Kangs in post-credit scenes. We're going to get more before Kang's main appearance in the Infinity War equivalent movie.

What lore? There have been exactly two projects that have even mentioned him. Loki, and now Quantumania. And in Loki, the "lore" was incredibly vague. If you already knew of Kang, you knew who he was, but otherwise? Quantumania adds in more stuff, but it's still muddled. And the direct connections are less. 2 out of 7 films in phase 4 dealt with the multi-verse (not sure if the tiny bit with Starfox at the end of Eternals counts). And 2 out of 8 series did (Loki and What-if). Everything else is character introduction or development and seemingly unrelated. Phase5 is just starting up, so it's hard to say. But Secret Invasion certainly didn't seem to have any tie-ins with multiverse or Kang. Presumably Loki and What-if will continue the whole multiverse/Kang stuff, so there's that. The films are 50/50 so far, but looking at the list of upcoming films, I don't see anything likely to tie-in at all.

Basically, so far, we have multiverse stuff in Spiderman, Dr. Strange, and what-if. We have Kang and multiverse stuff in Loki and Quantumania. Do you really want me to list off the vast amount of "other stuff" that appears to have no relation to any of that at all? Basically, it's like there's one tiny little thread of a project going on on one "side" of the MCU that is "multi-verse", and everything else is unrelated. Now maybe more of that stuff will tie in over time, but it's a stark contrast (haha) to the first couple phases of MCU, where aside from a couple of character origin and followups (Notably, none of the Iron man films dealt with the stones, which is ironic really), every single film moved towards the Infinity War. The stuff so far in phase4/5 seems completely fiipped on it's head relatively speaking.


Essentially, what we have here is Phase 1 and 2 of the MCU if Loki had info-dumped about Thanos and the Infinity Stones back in the Avengers. I'm not sure it's working as well.

Except that aside from the info-dump, nothing else is connected. And the "info-dump" is only occuring to one character, who doesn't actually seem to exist in the "main universe/timeline/whatever" everyone else is in, so no one else even knows this is going on, or are affected by it (so far). Again, it's a massive contrast to the relatively tight storytelling and writing leading up to infinity war.

I'm sure that will ramp up over time. And yeah, Kang is a different kind of bad guy, and much less, er... direct, than Thanos. So I actually get the whole "no one knows this is coming, because most of it's occuring in alternate timelines and on realms/planes that our characters just never interact with or are aware of". But that's precisely why there's been far less actual introduction and interaction with this. It's more like a minor theme so far, off to one side. If you hadn't read somewhere that Kang and the multiverse are going to be major parts of the story arc, would you honestly have figured it out by now? I would just assume he's this minor character that Ant Man ran into in the Quantum Realm. Not knowing what I know, I might put no more weight on him being the "main focus" of the arc than say Zeus and Hercules from T:LaT, or maybe the super powerful Celestial bad guy from Eternals. Or maybe one or more of the gods from Moon Knight. Or some combination of those things. Or, well, any of a number of powerful evil enemies that have been presented to us in the various films and series in phase4/5.

And to be fair, I don't have a problem with this. I like the idea that they're branching out and telling other stories, and that not all of them are directly related to the "main plot/arc" like they were in the build up to Infinity War. But that's the point. They are less directly connected. I just don't feel like they have to be and I'm a bit baffled by claims that they are more connected than the infinity stones were in phase1-3.

[Batcathat]

I liked season 1 and the trailer looks good, so I'm looking forward to it. If I could make one request, it'd be to have Loki doing more, well, Loki-esque things. Lying, trickery, things of that nature. There was certainly some of that in the first season, but not as much as I had hoped for a Loki show.

[DigoDragon]

I'm definitely going to watch this for Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson. I liked the chemistry the two characters developed in the first series.

[Rockphed]

I'm definitely going to watch this for Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson. I liked the chemistry the two characters developed in the first series.

I like season 1. This looks interesting. However, this doesn't look interesting enough for me to renew Disney+.

[AscarothD]

I am def looking forward to Season 2. My take away from this trailer is.. Man, now I want some Key Lime pie.. Imagining the tart citrus limey goodness.

[Eldan]

I like season 1. This looks interesting. However, this doesn't look interesting enough for me to renew Disney+.

My current model is to subscribe to a streaming service for one month every year, then unsubscribe again. That's about enough time to watch what I want to see on each service.

[Palanan]

First episode of the second season.



Made no sense. Even after having watched the first season, this just made no sense.

But I’m detecting some GotG influence in the suit design.

The rest of it was just baffling. Loki jumping through time, yes, but also jumping between timelines? Maybe? I couldn't quite work that out.

Mildly entertaining, if only for the intense 70s vibe, but otherwise a bit befuddling.

[ecarden]

All setup, hard to evaluate, but fun and interesting. We'll see where it goes.

[Infernally Clay]

First episode of the second season.



Made no sense. Even after having watched the first season, this just made no sense.

But I’m detecting some GotG influence in the suit design.

The rest of it was just baffling. Loki jumping through time, yes, but also jumping between timelines? Maybe? I couldn't quite work that out.

Mildly entertaining, if only for the intense 70s vibe, but otherwise a bit befuddling.

Loki wasn't travelling between "timelines", which for the MCU is synonymous with "universes", he was simply timeslipping between the past, present and future.

The TVA is meant to exist outside of time so travelling to its past or its future should be impossible. In regular universes travelling to the past and changing the course of its future would create a new timeline but, clearly, that's not how it works in the TVA because Loki's conversation with Ouroboros in the past was having an immediate impact on the present. Ouroboros was remembering the conversation as it was happening, which has some interesting implications and I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't come up again.

[Joran]

Love Ke Huay Quan, lots of fun.


First episode of the second season.

Made no sense. Even after having watched the first season, this just made no sense.

But I’m detecting some GotG influence in the suit design.

The rest of it was just baffling. Loki jumping through time, yes, but also jumping between timelines? Maybe? I couldn't quite work that out.

Mildly entertaining, if only for the intense 70s vibe, but otherwise a bit befuddling.

As Infernally Clay mentions, as far as I can tell, the entire episode takes place in the same location, but not the same time.



Past TVA:

Kang / He Who Remains is the leader, giant statue of him and lots of his decor.

Mobius, B-15, and Casey haven't met Loki yet. Loki jumps out of the window, hits the mail truck, crashes through a window and scrapes the floor.

War room has Kang's face on the wall and he listens to the audio recording of Kang talking with Renslayer about being part of his team.

Present TVA

Casey doesn't remember the mail truck crashing through the window, because his memory was wiped. Windows are replaced, scrape still on the floor.

War room has mural of the Time Lords, but Loki hits it with the Timestick, revealing the previous Kang decor.

Mobius puts "Skin?" on the dust in the Time Loom.

Future TVA
Loki sees the "Skin?" in the Time Loom.

Everyone evacuating the TVA because of a disaster.

Loki sees Sylvie saying "There you are!" and is pruned by an off-camera person.

[Mikeavelli]

I love that Sylvie is introduced hiding in an apocalypse again

[Psyren]

Love Ke Huay Quan, lots of fun.



As Infernally Clay mentions, as far as I can tell, the entire episode takes place in the same location, but not the same time.



Past TVA:

Kang / He Who Remains is the leader, giant statue of him and lots of his decor.

Mobius, B-15, and Casey haven't met Loki yet. Loki jumps out of the window, hits the mail truck, crashes through a window and scrapes the floor.

War room has Kang's face on the wall and he listens to the audio recording of Kang talking with Renslayer about being part of his team.

Present TVA

Casey doesn't remember the mail truck crashing through the window, because his memory was wiped. Windows are replaced, scrape still on the floor.

War room has mural of the Time Lords, but Loki hits it with the Timestick, revealing the previous Kang decor.

Mobius puts "Skin?" on the dust in the Time Loom.

Future TVA
Loki sees the "Skin?" in the Time Loom.

Everyone evacuating the TVA because of a disaster.

Loki sees Sylvie saying "There you are!" and is pruned by an off-camera person.


Thanks for this summary!




I love that Sylvie is introduced hiding in an apocalypse again



Well, if it ain't broke...

[ben-zayb]

OB's location seems so far off the beaten path that he may have been accidentally missed by whoever did the memory wipe. Who else got missed? Dox seems so dismissive of B-15 and Möbius. Could she be working directly for Kang or Renslayer? Maybe she remembers, too.

The floor dent never getting fixed at all had to have stood out.

[thatSeniorGuy]

Wow, it's amazing that the GiTP server can withstand all the discussion in the thread!
Just goes to show how much people are invested in the MCU shows (which is accurate I guess)

Anyways,

I thought it was a plot point from the last season that once a branch went redline it couldn't be pruned anymore, but the rogue TVA faction didn't seem to have any problems. Am I misremembering?

[Clertar]

I thought it was a plot point from the last season that once a branch went redline it couldn't be pruned anymore, but the rogue TVA faction didn't seem to have any problems. Am I misremembering?


The way I remember it, deviant branches reaching the red line would go beyond critical point and endanger the sacred timeline (i.e. allow for the appearence of a dangerous Kang variant), but pruning a timeline was probably always possible, I don't know what would change.

[Joran]

Wow, it's amazing that the GiTP server can withstand all the discussion in the thread!
Just goes to show how much people are invested in the MCU shows (which is accurate I guess)

Loki's a fun show so far. OB is hilarious and I'm glad to see Ke Huy Quan in all the things.


1. Don't understand why Brad kept cooperating after the good cop / bad cop was revealed to be a trick. He only confirmed information they already deduced (Brad is a good hunter and has found the location of Sylvie), so he has no incentive to keep helping them. The thing that the TVA can offer him (a return to his old actor life) is also not on the table, since I assume the General is going to bomb his branch. (The presence of a Hunter with information about the TVA has to be a Nexus event)

2. Sylvie has Kang's tempad, so she can open a timedoor to the past in the TVA, which means she'll probably try to undo General Dox's plot.

3. This raised a question in my mind about what happened in episode 3 of last year when Sylvie bombed the Sacred Timeline. How did that get resolved? Did the TVA just travel back before the bombs went off and disarmed them? As far as I know, the Sacred Timeline is fine in S2, but due to Sylvie's killing of Kang, the branches are growing.




Anyways,

I thought it was a plot point from the last season that once a branch went redline it couldn't be pruned anymore, but the rogue TVA faction didn't seem to have any problems. Am I misremembering?


A lot of what we were told early on is suspect. That particular tidbit is from the beginning of S1 E2:
Miss Minutes: "What happens when a Nexus event branches past red line?"
<banter>
Loki: "It's when the TVA can no longer reset a nexus event."
Miss Minutes: "Right, and that would lead to the destruction of the timeline and the collapse of reality as we know it."

[GloatingSwine]

A lot of what we were told early on is suspect. That particular tidbit is from the beginning of S1 E2:
Miss Minutes: "What happens when a Nexus event branches past red line?"
<banter>
Loki: "It's when the TVA can no longer reset a nexus event."
Miss Minutes: "Right, and that would lead to the destruction of the timeline and the collapse of reality as we know it."

Yeah, anything the TVA believes or tells about what they're doing and why should be considered disinformation.

[thatSeniorGuy]

...

A lot of what we were told early on is suspect. That particular tidbit is from the beginning of S1 E2:
Miss Minutes: "What happens when a Nexus event branches past red line?"
<banter>
Loki: "It's when the TVA can no longer reset a nexus event."
Miss Minutes: "Right, and that would lead to the destruction of the timeline and the collapse of reality as we know it."


Yeah, anything the TVA believes or tells about what they're doing and why should be considered disinformation.

Yeah that's a fair point!

And red line indicating a potential Kang emergence makes a lot more sense given KangWhoRemains' motivations.

[DigoDragon]

Been really enjoying season two so far.
I kind of like that there's no clear "BBEG" right now; we got several people with their own motivations trying to pull the strings and I'm curious to see who comes out on top, but I gotta give it to Miss Minutes being the creepiest of them all. Tara Strong is a gem voicing her.

[Devlerbat]

Loki's a fun show so far. OB is hilarious and I'm glad to see Ke Huy Quan in all the things.


1. Don't understand why Brad kept cooperating after the good cop / bad cop was revealed to be a trick. He only confirmed information they already deduced (Brad is a good hunter and has found the location of Sylvie), so he has no incentive to keep helping them. The thing that the TVA can offer him (a return to his old actor life) is also not on the table, since I assume the General is going to bomb his branch. (The presence of a Hunter with information about the TVA has to be a Nexus event)








He was hiding out in the sacred timeline, and it was the sacred timeline that he wanted to be returned to. It is the one timeline that would be safe from the zealots.

[Trixie_One]

Reviewer on AVClub nailed it for me:


he’s become less “The God Of Mischief” at this point than “A Nice Man Who Tries To Do Nice Things,” or, at his worst, “The God Of Not All Time Cops Are Bad”

I also found the soundtrack to be trying way way too hard in trying to set the tone and ending up rather overly intrusive.

[Joran]

He was hiding out in the sacred timeline, and it was the sacred timeline that he wanted to be returned to. It is the one timeline that would be safe from the zealots.

Yup, forgot that they show you what branch someone is on as well as the time period.

Although, wait, does that mean Brad pruned or otherwise disposed of himself on the Sacred Timeline and took his place? How does this not cause a Nexus event?


he’s become less “The God Of Mischief” at this point than “A Nice Man Who Tries To Do Nice Things,” or, at his worst, “The God Of Not All Time Cops Are Bad”

It's hard to be mean to Owen Wilson. It's like kicking a puppy.

[Batcathat]

Although, wait, does that mean Brad pruned or otherwise disposed of himself on the Sacred Timeline and took his place? How does this not cause a Nexus event?


Maybe the fact that he was replacing the variant he got rid of prevented it? Though considering he presumably had very different experiences from the person he replaced would sooner or later mean his behavior diverged significantly. So... probably a good question.

[Trixie_One]

Man this episode has such a 'there's no reason you'd say that line accept to set up the pay off' line. Anyone who has seen more than a modicum of media can predict the exact wording of the response that Loki will say in the reply. I know it's just one scene, but dang did that infuriate me.

[Lizard Lord]

Man this episode has such a 'there's no reason you'd say that line accept to set up the pay off' line. Anyone who has seen more than a modicum of media can predict the exact wording of the response that Loki will say in the reply. I know it's just one scene, but dang did that infuriate me.

I kind of get the feeling that Sylvie never really considered herself a god. She has spent more time running from and fighting the TVA, people who clearly had more control over reality and destiny than her family ever did, than she did on Asgard. So, at the very least, it makes sense to me that she didn't actually consider that as Loki's most likely response.

[ecarden]

Am I the only one confused by the debate between Loki and Sylvia?

Sylvie wants to expand the loom to protect the timelines (and then maybe safely destroy it or something?) and burn down the TVA. Loki wants to expand the loom to protect the TVA and timelines and reform the TVA...but to do what? The TVA does two things, it runs around, grabbing varients to prevent branching and blowing up timelines which would lead to other Kangs. We know there is now a massive council of Kangs and that is going to continue and we know that the TVA has finally recognized that kidnapping/murdering varients is immoral, as is blowing up timelines...so what exactly is this reformed TVA going to do? Did I miss some plan for what they'll do going forward? What are they going to be reformed into?

Without that information, the whole thing lacks any actual stakes, especially since they agree on the immediate course of action...

[JadedDM]

Not sure if he's actually spelled it out directly, but my understanding is that Loki wants to...

...use the TVA to protect the new branches from Kang variants. He understand that not pruning the timelines means there is a real risk of another multi-universal war breaking out again.

[ecarden]

Not sure if he's actually spelled it out directly, but my understanding is that Loki wants to...

...use the TVA to protect the new branches from Kang variants. He understand that not pruning the timelines means there is a real risk of another multi-universal war breaking out again.

Okay, that's not insane, except first, we the audience know this has failed. We've seen the Council of Kangs. Second, I'm not sure how they'd do that without blowing up a timeline? Like if they run a timeline forward to see if it's got an evil Kang in it, then go back and kill him, that just creates a branch, doesn't it? And if they try to kill him once he's gone all evil, I think they just lose. The TVA has some great toys, but so do Kangs and the TVA is pretty shockingly weak in manpower and ability. Two Lokis are able to blow through everything the TVA's military commander can muster and the Kangs have a lot more stuff. I guess they can just kill every Kang they find as soon as he's born or something (which wouldn't create branches for...reasons? Like pruning? Though sending Kangs to the end of time strikes me as a bad idea?) except they explicitly reject 'kill all Kangs' in the last few episodes.

[Clertar]

Given the way that the last episode ended, this debate could be very relevant or not at all. We'll have to wait and see what we get next.

As far as using the TVA, I have the feeling that this season playing up a little more the fact that Loki is an Asgardian god is connected to that. Loki, having found this new antihero persona, approaches it from the approach that he knows, which is Asgard. Loki might unconsciously be projecting into the TVA the virtues of the Asgard he remembers, these gods that protect mortal realms and will beam down and intervene to save mortals.



We know that the TVA will play a role in Deadpool and Wolverine's gimmicks in the upcoming Deadpool 3. That might be Loki's asgardianized version of the TVA.

[Trixie_One]

I've said a lot of negative stuff about this show, I have yet more negative stuff to say, but that first five minutes were superb. Easily the most I've enjoyed this show since ep 5 of last season.

I feel like this season could have been a pretty good movie. So much faffing about that either went absolutely nowhere like Renslayer or just didn't matter in the long run.

Ending was very pretty, lovely music, transformation neat, kinda disatisfying though? Feels like a waste of Loki who has been by far the most fun character of the MCU to turn him into Atlas holding up all the worlds.

Sylvie was really robbed this season. Maybe it was far as she really took over season one and how. I liked that though so her being such a drag so often wasn't great. Last episode where she only cared when things affected her directly felt like such a stall, and she barely gets a resolution here.

OB was a delight obviously. He's one of the main reasons s2 was worth it.

Won't talk about Kang cause y'know.

Miss Minutes felt wasted too. Whatever she agenda may have had was forgotten though her o.0 expression at Loki's entrance was great.

No clue what Renslayer saw at the end or where she was. If someone could explain that'd be appreciated.

[Devonix]

Okay, that's not insane, except first, we the audience know this has failed. We've seen the Council of Kangs. Second, I'm not sure how they'd do that without blowing up a timeline? Like if they run a timeline forward to see if it's got an evil Kang in it, then go back and kill him, that just creates a branch, doesn't it? And if they try to kill him once he's gone all evil, I think they just lose. The TVA has some great toys, but so do Kangs and the TVA is pretty shockingly weak in manpower and ability. Two Lokis are able to blow through everything the TVA's military commander can muster and the Kangs have a lot more stuff. I guess they can just kill every Kang they find as soon as he's born or something (which wouldn't create branches for...reasons? Like pruning? Though sending Kangs to the end of time strikes me as a bad idea?) except they explicitly reject 'kill all Kangs' in the last few episodes.

Except they haven't failed They know that the kangs are inevitable, they're job is to watch out for the kangs, monitor time, and step in to help out the timelines when a kang does appear.

[Infernally Clay]

That was a pretty fantastic ending to a very entertaining season.

I guess this is it for Tom Hiddleston, then? That felt very much like the end of Loki’s story. Taking over for the Loom, effectively becoming the God of Stories, means we’ll probably never see him again. Which I guess means Sylvie and Mobius will be the envoys of the TVA during Kang’s Dynasty and Secret Wars.

Unless… I wonder if Loki could replace the Beyonder in Secret Wars?


No clue what Renslayer saw at the end or where she was. If someone could explain that'd be appreciated.

It was Alioth. She was dumped in the Void, where all the Lokis were last season.

[Trixie_One]

It was Alioth. She was dumped in the Void, where all the Lokis were last season.

Well that's a bit meh. Appreciate the explanation though :smallsmile:

[Infernally Clay]

Well that's a bit meh. Appreciate the explanation though :smallsmile:

Not necessarily.

Alioth guards the entrance to the Citadel at the End of Time and we know Renslayer ends up there because she helps Kang win the multiversal war against all of the other Kangs before he wipes her memories and she becomes a grunt at the TVA and eventually gets promoted to judge. It's possible that her life is a loop, given the weird way time works at the TVA, and we'll see her later on as a major player in Kang's Dynasty fighting alongside the Kang who will one day become He Who Remains.

We've only seen the end of his story, remember.

[Trixie_One]

Not necessarily.

It's possible that her life is a loop, given the weird way time works at the TVA, and we'll see her later on as a major player in Kang's Dynasty fighting alongside the Kang who will one day become He Who Remains.

Time will tell I guess.

First Kang's Dynasty needs to actually come out. That's possibly on shaky ground. Maybe if there's a recast. Who knows what happens with that.

Second I'll be surprised if streaming secondary supporting cast makes it into a film. So far the only ones that have made that transition has been family members I think? Not even sure Miss Minutes will make it in either, as she might be too much of a tonal clash when Kang goes to actual war.

Thirdly even if Renslayer does make it in I'd be surprised if she gets much focus outside of just being there, as a hey remember the Loki show, and almost certainly not getting an actual arc. I'd figure that film would be a lot more focused on the Young Avengers stepping up to replace those that have retired with the Kate Bishop Hawkeye, Stature, and so on.

[Wintermoot]

You know, I would highly doubt we'll see Owen Wilson (Mobius) or Sylvie or any of these supporting characters in the movies. It may be that the creators/showrunners of this show are expecting them to, but when we get to the actual movies being made, it will be up to the director/showrunner of the movies what goes in.

While the Disney+ shows are seeing more interaction with the movies than, say, the netflix shows or Agents of Shield ever got. I don't think it will be more than cameos if that.

I'm expecting "Kang Dynasty" to be some kind of Avengers next generation vs Kang movie that ends, like infinity war ended, with an apparent loss/cliffhanger into the next movie where all the multiverse is seemingly destroyed and recreated into the 'battleworld' of Jonothan Hickman's Secret Wars (or something similar) but with Kang in the Dr Doom role.

Then I expect "Secret Wars" to be some kind of wonky multiversal caper flick (like endgame) where a group of almost, but not quite, our heroes have to navigate the battleworld and defeat Kang and restart the multiverse.

Its possible that Loki, in his new role as "God of timelines" sitting in the center of the multiverse, holding it all together into a yggdrassil of alternate multiverses, will factor in but its also possible it never gets mentioned again. I think that more likely TBH.

If I remember correctly, the fantastic four movie is supposed to come out before Kang Dynasty, but the X-Men relaunch isn't until after? I don't know how it will all flow together, but I don't think it will be as seamless and well-knitted as the lead up into Infinity Wars/End Game.

Personally, I belabor and regret that they haven't put out a "Professor Hulk's Avengers" show or movie. With him being the last standing original Avenger on Earth, I really wanted to see him running an Avengers team outside Governmental control. I think that would be a fun setup.

[Talakeal]

This season wasn't bad, but that was mostly just based on the chemistry of the actors. This is an all-star cast, and everyone had great charisma, even if a few of the actors have RL issues hanging over their heads, and they would be entertaining just sitting around in an empty room drinking coffee and shooting the breeze.... which is actually what a lot of this season was now that I think about it.

This season just didn't really have any plot or stakes to it. There was no overarching villain or mystery or conflict to drive it. And, storyline wise, it doesn't actually move anywhere except to negate the very ending of Season 1. Basically, the whole thing could have boiled down to a 15 second post-credit scene after season 1 of Loki walking back into HWR's castle and saying "On second thought, I will take the job!".

Great acting. Beautiful imagery (The Loom and Yggdrasil look amazing), but mostly hollow as far as plot and drama go.

[Spacewolf]

This season wasn't bad, but that was mostly just based on the chemistry of the actors. This is an all-star cast, and everyone had great charisma, even if a few of the actors have RL issues hanging over their heads, and they would be entertaining just sitting around in an empty room drinking coffee and shooting the breeze.... which is actually what a lot of this season was now that I think about it.

This season just didn't really have any plot or stakes to it. There was no overarching villain or mystery or conflict to drive it. And, storyline wise, it doesn't actually move anywhere except to negate the very ending of Season 1. Basically, the whole thing could have boiled down to a 15 second post-credit scene after season 1 of Loki walking back into HWR's castle and saying "On second thought, I will take the job!".

Great acting. Beautiful imagery (The Loom and Yggdrasil look amazing), but mostly hollow as far as plot and drama go.

Wait there's only six episodes this season? The rate they were building stuff I was expecting at least 12.

[Devonix]

This season wasn't bad, but that was mostly just based on the chemistry of the actors. This is an all-star cast, and everyone had great charisma, even if a few of the actors have RL issues hanging over their heads, and they would be entertaining just sitting around in an empty room drinking coffee and shooting the breeze.... which is actually what a lot of this season was now that I think about it.

This season just didn't really have any plot or stakes to it. There was no overarching villain or mystery or conflict to drive it. And, storyline wise, it doesn't actually move anywhere except to negate the very ending of Season 1. Basically, the whole thing could have boiled down to a 15 second post-credit scene after season 1 of Loki walking back into HWR's castle and saying "On second thought, I will take the job!".

Great acting. Beautiful imagery (The Loom and Yggdrasil look amazing), but mostly hollow as far as plot and drama go.

This season had huge stakes, it's just that they were personal. This was Loki's journey of self discovery and purpose. It couldn't have been done in a post credit because it was a long, personal emotional drama

[Clertar]

This season wasn't bad, but that was mostly just based on the chemistry of the actors.

That sounds like handwaving a good script + good acting. To me that's not a "but", it's the main element that a movie or series needs to get right.

[Infernally Clay]

I actually think the plot was pretty fantastic, a natural progression from the previous season. The first ended with such a massively consequential action that it's actually a good thing the whole second season was dedicated to resolving it. In fact if they had released Loki S1 and Loki S2 as two separate movies, they would have been easily the strongest material they'd have put on the big screen since 2019 and it would have been exactly the kind of build up to Kang's Dynasty that Marvel so desperately needs.

It's actually kind of amusing to think what Marvel really needed was more faith in this show.

[Talakeal]

That sounds like handwaving a good script + good acting. To me that's not a "but", it's the main element that a movie or series needs to get right.

To me, story is an important aspect of a film / show.

The acting was good. The script was good. Overall, I very much enjoyed the show.

I just thought the storyline was pretty weak and I found myself not really caring about the plot.

[Spacewolf]

So finished the show and it certainly was a conclusive ending.

My thoughts after finishing was that the show was decent but overall pretty empty, I'd certainly never rewatch it.

[gbaji]

I actually liked the show's ending quite a bit. It worked. It made sense. It fits into the current theme Marvel is trying to do with this phase. It also fit (cosmology wise) that as an asguardian, Loki had "just enough" cosmic heft to be able to step in and take the reins as he did. I loved the bit with the branches gathering together and forming a new yiggdrasill. Very much Loki putting his own touch/spin on things. Also, was it just my imagination, or was that a profile shot of Eternity hanging out in the background as Loki was walking out into the branches?

To me, this was phase 4/5 finally actually getting on track. They had a lot of "building" stories and series/films in phase 4, and the hope is that there's a payoff in phase 5 going foward. This was the first thing I've seen from Marvel in the last few years that actually showed a real direction it was building into, rather than just separate and seemingly unrelated stories. And to be fair, some of that could have been intentional. They're dealing with time and multiverse stuff, so everything need not (arguably should not) be in chronological order. Hence, why we've seen so many bits involving multiverses already before we're seeing the show that explains why they can exist in the first place (which I actually appreciate).

I do kinda agree that, given how much the rest of the phase rests on this, Loki maybe should have been features rather than series. But my opinion on that may change over time. We'll see. Overall though, I'd have to give Loki a high grade here. Just the right amount of depth and complexity, while still capable of being followed by pretty much anyone. Well done IMO.

[VampiricLongbow]

Am I the only one confused by the debate between Loki and Sylvia?

Sylvie wants to expand the loom to protect the timelines (and then maybe safely destroy it or something?) and burn down the TVA. Loki wants to expand the loom to protect the TVA and timelines and reform the TVA...but to do what? The TVA does two things, it runs around, grabbing varients to prevent branching and blowing up timelines which would lead to other Kangs. We know there is now a massive council of Kangs and that is going to continue and we know that the TVA has finally recognized that kidnapping/murdering varients is immoral, as is blowing up timelines...so what exactly is this reformed TVA going to do? Did I miss some plan for what they'll do going forward? What are they going to be reformed into?

Without that information, the whole thing lacks any actual stakes, especially since they agree on the immediate course of action...

The new TVA is set up to protect the multiverse from Kang variants. So they run around changing events in history to ensure Kang does not rise up (or straight up killing him).