Too much? Greater Kinetic Cover

[Aotrs Commander]

As I'm porting over the kineticist to my 3.5/PF1 rules, I looked at Kinetic Cover and figured that there was a bit of logic to having a better version (seeing this be a sort of Toph/Aang thing to do...)

(Edit: Assume an evaluation based on PF1. I would have thought that was implied, but a gentleman and/or/through lady on Reddit was borderline rude about it.)

Fundamentally, I didn't think allowing multiple Total Cover faces as a Swift action would be too bad for a level 5 Utility Wild Talent; however, I could also see that it could immediately be used to permenantly no-save block-lock enemies.
(Something you could TECHNICALLY do with Kinetic Cover, but it would take four rounds an the enemy not doing anything.) Hense my logic in when you try and totally block a foe in, they'd see it coming and, like, react.

But I would be greatful for a second or subseuent pair of eyes to see if there's any better way or whether even with that, it would be too abusable.

(Incidentally, I apologise if I have left or later say a "fangshi" instead of kineticist, "invocation" instead of wild talent or "elemental cover" instead of "kinetic" since there is a bit of a terminology change in my own rules (in this specific instance, essentially cosmetic, but... I think I have translated everything back into standard PF1, but...)


Kinetic Cover, Greater
Element: Aether, Earth, Water, Wood Type utility (Sp); Level 5; Burn 0
Prerequisites: Kinetic Cover

You can use Kinetic Cover as a Swift action and to create up to one Kinetic Cover per kineticist level within 30 feet.

If you attempt to completely block in a hostile creature, each one of your Kinetic Covers provokes an Attack of Opportunity from the target creature.

You can instead use a Standard action to create a single Kinetic Cover which is more durable, and has 10 hit points per kineticist level. You can have a number of Kinetic Covers in existiance equal to twice your Constitution modifier + your kineticist level.

[Darg]

I think a natural progression would be that you spend a standard to create x number of covers and it gives you the option as an immediate action to spend x burn to create x covers. The fact that they don't need to be connected is already a huge tactical boon and trapping a character with with walls is already doable and spammable if you have the spell slots. Giving the characters an AoO to destroy them for free is a trap to waste AoO attempts when the walls already collapse under the weight of 5 pounds (simply walking into them would make them collapse).

[Kurald Galain]

Essentially, this ability is a Quickened Wall of Ice (and better, since you can spread it around; but worse, since it has less hit points but wall of ice is already easy to destroy), that can be used at-will and has an unlimited duration.

Yeah, for a 5th-level power that's clearly a bit much; QWoI would be 8th level normally. Seriously, a tactically-minded player is going to have a field day with using this every single round.

[exelsisxax]

So at-will swift action wall of stone/iron, except you can break it into many pieces and it's more fragile. this is ludicrously overpowered. But it doesn't change the 'supported by the ground' stipulation, so it can't no-interaction at-will trap 99% of the bestiary. Just mess with 100% of them very effectively every turn at no resource cost and little action cost.

[Rynjin]

Total Cover is surprisingly strong as-is, and as a Swift actually is actually a little too much. It would likely be balanced if it acted as a "Hustled" (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/feats/hustle-power-metapsionic/) version of Kinetic Cover instead of Quickened, and allowed you to raise a single wall as a Move action, or a much thicker and more powerful wall as a Standard. You could also toss on the "attempt to trap a creature" effect on the Standard action version as an alternate feature and it'd be fine. As long as it allowed a Reflex save lol, it should definitely do that and not the "this provokes" bit.

If you want the flavor of a "quick protection" thing, you should create a different ability that allows you to raise a Kinetic Cover as an Immediate action, with a stipulation that if an attack's damage exceeds the remaining HP of the Kinetic Cover the overflow damage hits the Kineticist or something.

[Aotrs Commander]

For some reason (maybe I didn't click the button, though I could swear I did) got no notifications, so I only just checked... (OH, it was set to DAILY, that's why, fragdammit.)



Right, okay, fair enough; way too strong (but that's why I like, made the thread, right?)

I have considered myself later last night (even later than I was doing it) that maybe it would be saner if I made it be a contiguous wall instead of multiple spaces (which entirely obivates that walling-in-enemy concerns, I think that has to go regardless); and/or you can only wall yourself in (or maybe one willing Medium or smaller creature in contiguous spaces 4/levels in) (either case as Standard action?), so you can Does Aang at the end of Season 2 or something.

Sounds like general concensus is Swift is also way too much, so reducing to Move action maybe, and maybe only one sqaure 2/levels.

I'm not above putting the level up, but I think it might be more consistent to just tone it back to closer to sanity anyway.


I'll have another proper pass tomorrow night. (Today is Mandatory Rimworld Break. No, really, last week I did so much rules stuff after work I did myself a visual mischief, so I need to space it out a bit; Rimrim is at least not staring at a stark white screen for several nours hours.)

[Aotrs Commander]

Okay; a revised pass.

You can use Elemental Cover as a Swift action.
You can instead use a Standard action to create a single Elemental Cover which is more durable, and has 5 hit points per fangshi level.
You can use a Full-Round action to create a a number of standard Elemental Covers equal to half your fangshi level in a straight line. All of the faces must fall within your 30-ft range (which further limits the number of Elemental Covers you can form the further away from you they are).


(Sidenote: as the talent did not specify - there's a lot of that with the talents; I also put a duration of 1min/level on Elemental Cover itself that I didn't mention before, because it probably doesn't make that much difference in a combat.)

More betterer? Still too good?