Morgoth vs. Nyarlathotep

[Athaniar]

No more Sauron slaughtering, no no. Can Morgoth compare to Nyarlathotep? Can Nyarlathotep compare to Morgoth? Will I be the target of many "unfair!" comments yet again?

[lipe44]

Who the hell is... you know the strange name...

[warty goblin]

I'm assuming that... is something from H.P. Lovecraft, in which case, no.

[Callos_DeTerran]

The weird N name is a Lovecraft being, but its the closest Morgoth is getting to fair fight from the Lovecraft side of things. (Not counting like...fish people and cultists)

[lipe44]

Any page about.. you know...?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Any page about.. you know...?

No, I don't know. Any page about what?

[Poison_Fish]

Thar be a swarthy man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep)

Just an easy reference for those who are confused on our lovcraftian friend here.

[lipe44]

Thar be a swarthy man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep)

Just an easy reference for those who are confused on our lovcraftian friend here.

Thanks but it doesnt tell what he can do...

[Callos_DeTerran]

Thanks but it doesnt tell what he can do...

He's the most humanish of the Outer Gods, you could accurately describe him as the placeholder for the various cults while the ACTUAL beings are away. But hes more deceitful and manipulative then others.

[Project_Mayhem]

Morgoth: Aha, I am the ultimate evil!! The most powerful valar!! I command infinite legions of orcs and creatures of darkness! That Sauron fellow has my back! I shall destroy you elder thing

Nyarlathotep: Summon Azothoth

Morgoth: Oh fu-

Splat

[lipe44]

Considering he doesnt have to be corporeal i dont know if that would work...


He's the most humanish of the Outer Gods, you could accurately describe him as the placeholder for the various cults while the ACTUAL beings are away. But hes more deceitful and manipulative then others.

This it said that but still doesnt tell what he can do...

Hum... I am thinking of hiring him to help me out, how much do they Outer Gods pay him? He is their manager... :smallbiggrin:

[WalkingTarget]

This it said that but still doesnt tell what he can do...

That's a problem with getting any of Lovecraft's creations involved in any vs. discussion. There's very little given as to what any of them can do.

On a meta-fiction level, who's to say that Morgoth isn't just another Mask of the big N. Morgoth has a fair number of "cultists" in his time after all.

[lipe44]

That's a problem with getting any of Lovecraft's creations involved in any vs. discussion. There's very little given as to what any of them can do.

On a meta-fiction level, who's to say that Morgoth isn't just another Mask of the big N. Morgoth has a fair number of "cultists" in his time after all.

Tolkien do that also...

Everything in Tolkien's universe was created by Eru Illúvatar and most of his creations didnt come to Arda... Kind like the Outer Gods but there if they went to Arda they couldnt come back until the end of the world.

[I_am_an_undead]

Morgoth: Aha, I am the ultimate evil!! The most powerful valar!! I command infinite legions of orcs and creatures of darkness! That Sauron fellow has my back! I shall destroy you elder thing

Nyarlathotep: Summon Azothoth

Morgoth: Oh fu-

Splat

I doubt Azathoth would answer. He is, after all, the idiot god, and he isn't interrested in anything else than his mindless urges. Nyarly is under his service, not the contrary.

[Project_Mayhem]

I doubt Azathoth would answer. He is, after all, the idiot god, and he isn't interrested in anything else than his mindless urges. Nyarly is under his service, not the contrary

Firstly, by CoC RAW, that would actually be the case, as N 'knows all mythos spells', and Call/Dismiss Azathoth is such a spell. It's not stated whether Azathoth has a choice in this summoning; being the most powerful thing in existance, probably, but we don't know this.

Secondly, the relationship between N and the elder gods is very unclear, and depends to an extent on what you accept as cannon mythos; certainly it has been argued that N is not a seperate entity to Azathoth, just an extention of his conciousnous, so if N really needed Azathoth to come, he probably would.

Nyarlathotep probably wouldn't end life on earth like that, coz he prefers creating madness and stuff instead, but it might be the only way to defeat Morgoth

[I_am_an_undead]

Firstly, by CoC RAW, that would actually be the case, as N 'knows all mythos spells', and Call/Dismiss Azathoth is such a spell. It's not stated whether Azathoth has a choice in this summoning; being the most powerful thing in existance, probably, but we don't know this.

Secondly, the relationship between N and the elder gods is very unclear, and depends to an extent on what you accept as cannon mythos; certainly it has been argued that N is not a seperate entity to Azathoth, just an extention of his conciousnous, so if N really needed Azathoth to come, he probably would.

Nyarlathotep probably wouldn't end life on earth like that, coz he prefers creating madness and stuff instead, but it might be the only way to defeat Morgoth

Alright, you convinced me.

[Project_Mayhem]

yay. Quail at the might of my blind idiot arguments

[Athaniar]

Well, with this thread I kinda meant no help, just Morgoth vs. Nyarlanthotep, no summoning Azathoth. But feel free to do what you want with the discussion.

[Project_Mayhem]

Hmm, the problem is, they are both essentially the personification of evil - either everything Morgoth does is part of N's plan, of everything N does is part of Morgoth's plan. I'm more inclined to believe N is more powerful, as Morgoth has actually been defeated before.

[lipe44]

Hmm, the problem is, they are both essentially the personification of evil - either everything Morgoth does is part of N's plan, of everything N does is part of Morgoth's plan. I'm more inclined to believe N is more powerful, as Morgoth has actually been defeated before.

Just because in Arda if you create things you lose your power and even after having created all those races, several fortress, weapons and such, he was only defeated by all Valar and godlike people.

[....]

Nyarlathotep is more powerful.

How do I know this?

Nyarlathotep creates Hunting Horrors, giant, dragon-like monsters with HORRIBLE THREE-LOBED BURING EYES that tear people apart. Morgoth creates monsters too, but he gets weaker when he does it. Nyarlathotep does it because he's bored.

Also, Morgoth's focus is on one little planet. Nyarlathotep is all over the whole universe, usually in more than one place at a time, sewing chaos and madness.

[EvilElitest]

Hmm, the problem is, they are both essentially the personification of evil - either everything Morgoth does is part of N's plan, of everything N does is part of Morgoth's plan. I'm more inclined to believe N is more powerful, as Morgoth has actually been defeated before.

Gollum-and here we have the most evil incident in the history of the world, the marriage between Morgoth and Nyarlathotep. Yes folks, this is a big day in history, because after this the entire world will be destroy, so i suggest you start looting each other's houses while you can. Hosted by Gollum, as i am the only person so crazy that being around so many lords of evil actually has made me a better person. This incident is being held in Sunnydale over a hell mouth. Cleveland was considered, but the idea was dropped because no one really cares (no offense to people from there, your just not evil enough). Now what could bring about such a totally freakish and mind burning event? Well lets talk to the totally insane people now.
Morgoth- We met during one of those most evil times. I went to earth to harrest up evil energy and so i had to go to one of the most evil places in earth. So while i was in Las vegas, i wandered into the back room of a gambling resort and ran across Nyarlothotep in the back. I was total hatred at first sight, first trying to destroy, threaten, corrupt, and dominate the other and you know, well, one thing leads to another and....
Nyarathotep- this is such a special moment, i feel so wonderful in side, but that might be because i'm horrible torturing an ophen to death currently
Gollum- Wow, i feel almost paladin like compared to the freaks in this room. With us now is Mr. A, who is acting as Nyarathotep's father and he is currently wandering around aimlessly and eating random people
Sauron is here as well, acting both a host and as Morgoth's best man. For those of you who don't know, Sauron runs most of the gambling in the world, as well as all fast food places and copying houses. With him is Morgoth's ring bearing, the Witch King of Morgul, and Gothmog lord of the Balrogs is acting a usher, brutally whiping people inside to be eaten by the many monsters here, the Lich King Arthas is here, though he and Sauron seem to have some sort of deal together, i get the impression the are gaining power off of all the strife that is caused by the Sauron vs. LK thread, Gannon is acting as piano player, nightmare is here as a guest, along with Voldemort, the dark lord we can't take serously. Sephirroth would come, but they declined him for Kefka who was a better villian anyways. Oh the cerimony is coming, and Father from Full metal alchemist is acting as priest for some reason, and the the ring is put on, and on know, its teh one ring. Oh gods, they are all fighting for it now, Gannon dwarf is dueling father, the Lich King had impailed Kel'Jaden but has been sued by the Witch King for stealing his name, Sauron has shanked gothmog, oh gods my eyes


Not my best work, just felt like doing it
from,
EE

[Somebloke]

I doubt Azathoth would answer. He is, after all, the idiot god, and he isn't interrested in anything else than his mindless urges. Nyarly is under his service, not the contrary.

Considering that Nyarly is not only the messanger but the Soul of the Outer Gods, and Azathoth is really just a living nuclear explosion, it can be summoned and when summoned will cause a LOT of damage.

Nyarly is a being of an entirely different order of magnitude to Morgoth. The only real hope he has is that N's scheme's will be so utterly convoluted so as to not harm him entirely. Plus N seems to be bound by certain rules, restrictions and avatars.

Now that I think of it, the fight may well swing in M's favor.

[Somebloke]

Nyarlathotep is more powerful.

How do I know this?

Nyarlathotep creates Hunting Horrors, giant, dragon-like monsters with HORRIBLE THREE-LOBED BURING EYES that tear people apart. Morgoth creates monsters too, but he gets weaker when he does it. Nyarlathotep does it because he's bored.

Also, Morgoth's focus is on one little planet. Nyarlathotep is all over the whole universe, usually in more than one place at a time, sewing chaos and madness.
Therein lies his weakness.

The problem with Nyarlathotep is that he moves so obliquely that he often seems to be going backward. He is so in touch with the universe he really often just seems inclined to sow a little madness and then sit back and wait for the stars to come into righteousness. N strikes me as a really, really busy deity- he can't really be bothered to focus his attention on one measly planet.

Morgoth just raises a bunch of horrors and lays continents to waste. Simple and quick.

[....]

Therein lies his weakness.

The problem with Nyarlathotep is that he moves so obliquely that he often seems to be going backward. He is so in touch with the universe he really often just seems inclined to sow a little madness and then sit back and wait for the stars to come into righteousness. N strikes me as a really, really busy deity- he can't really be bothered to focus his attention on one measly planet.

Morgoth just raises a bunch of horrors and lays continents to waste. Simple and quick.

Yes, but this is a fight. For whatever reason Nyarlathotep has to use as much power as he can to attempt to destroy Morgoth. So he'll bring as much power to bear as he can and demolish him, then go back to toying with Randolf Carter.

[GuesssWho]

Yes, but this is a fight. For whatever reason Nyarlathotep has to use as much power as he can to attempt to destroy Morgoth. So he'll bring as much power to bear as he can and demolish him, then go back to toying with Randolf Carter.

Word.

And said in a way that cracked me up, too. LOLOLOL

[Winterwind]

Any page about.. you know...?I know I'm late, but here: http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/nyarlathotep.htm
(don't worry, it's one of Lovecraft's shortest ones, and also, in my humble opinion, one of the best ones)

And Nyarlathotep is basically the messenger, the herald and, kind of, the avatar of the Elder Gods' will. Even though I'm noone to underestimate Morgoth, I rather doubt he can stand up to that.

Especially since, if Call of Cthulhu RPG informations count, and as Project_Mayhem pointed out, Nyarlathotep can summon Azathoth, and by RAW, the mad god would appear. Incidentally, IIRC, the first sentence of that spell's description contains the phrase "...this spell has the potential to fry the entire planet". :smallamused:

[GuesssWho]

Yum, fried planet.
LOL!

And I've always thought that, since Azathoth is mindless, Nyarlathotep is his mind.