Order of the Stick: October II

[Lilly]

2nd half of the most popular thread in existance!!

[Userguy]

where is the first part?

[GuywithSword#2]

Further down the page.

[Elethiomel]

Aw Lilly, sad to see your Kaylee avatar go. I loved that one.

[Aeek]

Back to the comic:

Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo,
Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo,
Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo,
Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo,
Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo,
Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo,
Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo,
Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, Banjo, and the lute!

[Frojoe21]

The lute is leading on the panel bar. If that isn't weird, than Rich is doing his job extremely well.

Hehehe...dwarf lock pick.

[Flak_Razorwill]

The dwarf is just gonna get it in the spinal column. I can FEEL it.

[GreyRat]

This dwarf is reminding me of Hilgya. I wonder if she has a little brother. Or a disguise spell. :o
But that's not her accent. <whew>

(BTW, having read Book 0, I feel even more sorry for Durkon. :'( If he ever figures out how badly he's been shafted, he might go postal. And a cleric full fo righteous rage is quite a sight to see...)

[Drake_Darkfire]

I don't understand the ending....

[Ilaun_Undil]

Do dogs really drink tea? I knwo Banjo does and obviously the beaver likes it. Also the dwarf is rather dumb in this case... he set off an explosion, but doesn't want to deal with a lot of people?

Edit: This is about the time you realize you should have taken the improvised weapon feat.

[chibibar]

heh.. you can like to blow things up and be totally anti-people :)

(maybe that is why people like to blow things up) heh

[Jevanyn]

Ooh, look, the beaver is making lizardy noises :D

[Jothki]

Did the party ever actually get any real food or sleep?

[Sebastian]

This dwarf is reminding me of Hilgya. I wonder if she has a little brother. Or a disguise spell. :o
But that's not her accent. <whew>


Naah, that's Durkon's long lost brother. ;)

[The Giant]

The new comic is up. Or at least should be.

[kriklaf]

Oh, my god. I'm glad my officemates aren't in. I was wondering if the belt would put in an appearance eventually...but Roy as Regina...can't wait til Wednesday!!

[AtomicKitKat]

Booyah! The return of the Girdle of M/F! ;D

[Eriol]

I can't believe it made a return. I really can't.

[Unpleasant]

I loved today's comic. It has been awhile since I have been actually excited to see what happens next to the OotS gang.

My guess is Roynelda (Royina, Regina, whatever) is gonna get his/her wish and start getting the romatic attention of one standoffish female paladin.

[Gleanerizer]

Considering how thorough Elan was in de-equipping himself and Roy at such an inopportune time, maybe we should be THANKFUL he forgot about his fantastic belt until this time. I knew it'd come back... ;D

I wonder if the female Roy will be bald as well.

[ScreamerSimon]

YAAAAAY for the girdle being back.

I can't wait to see what becomes of Roy, as he seems to be forced to use the cursed thing...

Great storytelling, Rich!!!

[Omellette]

Hahaha, beautiful...

Notice that mop and bucket? How much you want to bet that Roy IS, in fact, going to try and mop up the bad guys?

Also, I can't help but wonder about V putting that belt on. How much you want to bet that he/she wouldn't change appearance at all?

;-)

[Brardos]

Well it has been talked about...speculated...and posted about on multiple threads. Here it is, finally the infamous Girdle of femininity/masculinity sub-plot has made it's appearance, and against popular opinion Elan will NOT be wearing it :P


...someone will have to ship me off to antartica before wednesday for me to miss this one.

[Qwernt]

What a master plan by Elan - Paying those bards to pretend they are assassins just to get Roy to put on the belt ;^)... (obviously not Elans plan).


Great Comic!

[Colt]

on the stats for the girdle of f/m, it says that it is a 1 time use article... so rich will have to house rule it in...

[Wrecan]

In my wildest imaginations, I wouldn't have predicted the return of the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity in this manner. Kudos for an awesome plot turn.

;D :o ;D

[Christian]

Note to self. Do not check for OotS updates at work ... I think I'm going to throw up from trying not to laugh so hard the VP at the end of the hall will be wondering what's up ...

[Devoured_Dude]

DON'T DO IT, ROY!

Use the mop stick as an improvised quarterstaff. Or just run past them, man. How many attacks of opportunity could they possibly get on you? Durkon is pretty high level, so you can always be raised later.

Not to imply that being a woman is a fate worse than death, of course, but any plan that involves a magical sex change and a couple of failed Sense Motive checks is a BAD PLAN.

[manscatha]

I loved today's comic. It has been awhile since I have been actually excited to see what happens next to the OotS gang.

My guess is Roynelda (Royina, Regina, whatever) is gonna get his/her wish and start getting the romatic attention of one standoffish female paladin.

That was my first thought as well. And while, on the one hand, I'd like to see all sexual orientations get fair representation in fantasy, on the other I don't really like the idea of Miko being the representative of queer women. (Not that I'm a Miko hater. I just don't think she makes a good first impression.)

Actually, what I *really* want to see is Belkar's reaction. Let us hope he does not get the hots for Royette...

[Midnight Son]

Roy has boobies. Har Har Har ;D

[Monzz]

Actually, what I *really* want to see is Belkar's reaction. Let us hope he does not get the hots for Royette...

*cackles* That would to be too funny to contemplate.

[GuywithSword#2]

Roy has boobies. Har Har Har ;D
Hahahaha!!!

Does this mean that Roy will get Supreme Cleavage for free?

Hahahaha!!!
I'm pretty sure everybody has been waiting for the reappearance of the gender belt of hilaritytm. Great comic!

[manscatha]

I loved today's comic. It has been awhile since I have been actually excited to see what happens next to the OotS gang.

My guess is Roynelda (Royina, Regina, whatever) is gonna get his/her wish and start getting the romatic attention of one standoffish female paladin.

That was my first thought as well. And while, on the one hand, I'd like to see all sexual orientations get fair representation in fantasy, on the other I don't really like the idea of Miko being the representative of queer women. (Not that I'm a Miko hater. I just don't think she makes a good first impression.)

Actually, what I *really* want to see is Belkar's reaction. Let us hope he does not get the hots for Royette...

[The_King_of_Durf]

Hahaha! Awesome, I thought it wouldn't ever come back!

Now, how much do you wanna bet that it's cursed and the wearer can't remove it until they're dead?

[Kish]

No bet. Otoh, either Vaarsuvius or Durkon should be able to prepare Remove Curse...tomorrow. (Of course, I can think of two different reasons for Vaarsuvius to be reluctant to do so--1) how concerned Roy wasn't when Vaarsuvius underwent a much more crippling transformation, and 2) "No, Sir--er--Miss Greenhilt, I believe your perception of a certain paladin will be much more reliable now. It's not in your best interests to become male again while she is around. Therefore I must regretfully refuse..."

[Aser]

Hahahahaha! Roy's gonna get boobies!

How long have we been waiting to see what became of that belt? My guess is that Roy's new image is going to be hottt!

[Nighthawk4]

Hehe - soon Roy really will have 'boobies' :D

Imagine that - Elan comes up with a plan to save the day ;)

[evileeyore]

Elan=Teh genius!

[GreyRat]

Oh YES! I could just see this happening at a table-top game: the GM grins maniacally at the one faced with making this desperate choice, while the rest of the players fall out of their chairs laughing. ;D

It's kinda funny how to some players, changing gender seems somehow more disturbing than changing species. Or maybe that's just me... :-/

[Eriol]

Roy has boobies. Har Har Har ;D
Too true. Belkar's reaction I wonder?

[Silmarwen]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!!!

I can't believe Rich actually used that stuff ;D

I just hope he doesn't make them kiss (in a usual kiss-the-leading-actress-to-hide scene) ;)

[Aser]

Hahahahaha! Roy's gonna get boobies!

How long have we been waiting to see what became of that belt? My guess is that Roy's new image is going to be hott!

[Grey Watcher]

OK, I'm normally Mr. Stoic, but I was so excited to see the Girdle of Gender finally get used, that I actually did a little dance in front of the computer (luckily, I'm alone so I don't have to answer any embarrassing questions). That was such a good payoff. :-)

[AtomicKitKat]

It's kinda funny how to some players, changing gender seems somehow more disturbing than changing species. Or maybe that's just me... :-/

Maybe it's just too many issues of Ranma 1/2, but gender alteration, and indeed, all shape-shifting in general just does not bother me.

[mimicgogo]

It...has...returned.

I've been waiting for this moment for 224 comics, and it was worth the wait.

Y'know, Roy is one of the few names that doesn't have an easy female counterpart, i.e. Jack and Jacqueline. It'll be interesting to see what he ends up calling himself. Either that, or he'll go the way of Red Mage(8-bit theater) and creep us out by already having a name in mind...

[StarWarz2]

Oh, man. That look on Roy's face ... :D Absolutely priceless!!!!

Can't wait to see if he actually goes through it.

[JessmanCA]

I think it'll take several strips to discover what Roy actually decides, because Rich needs to tie up all the loose ends (Belkar's fight with the horse, what happened to V, Haley and Durkon, etc.) before getting to the main event.

Also, I think the fact that there was an *explosion* will be very important, because everyone in the hotel must have heard it, and they're wondering what happened.

Anyone experiencing problems posting?

[NEO|Phyte]

There is only one emote with the raw awesomeness to show how this strip makes me feel:


:D

[Brardos]

My guess is that it will take several strips before we find out what Roy actually decides, because Rich needs to tie up all the loose ends (Belkar's fight with the horse, what happened to V, Haley and Durkon, etc.) before getting to the main event.


Ya, that's true Jessman. But whats happenning with the Various members of the group is not the only possible subplot avenue...Anybody wonder where 89 legions of Hobgoblins are marching off to right now?

[mossfoot]

The belt's back! OMG I can't believe the belt's back!

[silvadel]

Even wish has only a 50-50 shot of setting things right once that thing is used....

Of course miko would just say -- there are no game rules differences for being the other gender so it shouldnt matter...

[Eriol]

Will it be a quick "reveal" or will we not know for WEEKS if Roy uses it?

I predict at least one strip of "stalling".

[Jades]

Hehe! I knew the belt would come back. I knew it would go on Roy.

Still, Elan might put it on himself before the day is done.

"Roy, its easy. See, you just put the belt around your waist and buckle it." *does so* "And there you have it."

"Elan, how am I supposed to use it now?"

hehehe, I loved this episode Giant. Great work. I swear, as soon as I have the money, I'm buying your books.

[mossfoot]

The belt's back! OMG I can't believe the belt's back!

[Starla]

;D :D :D

I thought the forums beating the girdle issure to death was going to prevent Rich from ever using it again so I was soooo surprised when I saw it today!!!
ROCK ON GIANT!

I can't wait til my husband gets home to see this! :D

[Arturius]

Roy's not stupid enough to put the belt on. If I were him, I'd wait until V, Durkon, and Haley return and take 'em out.

[JessmanCA]

I know very little of the AD&D rules stuff, so I thought I'd ask this question:

What would happen if Roy were to wear TWO girdles of masculinity/femininity? Would they null each other out and keep him male, or do they both have the same effect of making him female? Would Roy become a transexual?

All joking aside, I really want to know the answer because it is one of how AD&D handles state-based effects. I know in Magic the Gathering if two things have conflicting rules the one that came into play 'first' applies.

Or is it simply impossible to wear two of them?

[Arturius]

I would imagine the second belt would do nothing since the first's curse is still in effect.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

IT RETURNS!

Seriously, I thought it was a throwaway gag. I guess i was mistaken.

[JeffreyToTheMax]

Sweet miscellaneous deity...

I never thought this would happen. Just goes to show my lack of faith...

[Jades]

In D&D it is impossible to wear two belts.

[Buzzaro]

Anyone experiencing problems posting?

Yes, but let’s not start that argument in here </efg>

I LOVE IT!!!

The group will really get to see Roy's Nice Cleavage. BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA... </sigh>
good time, good times.

I have been waiting for the last uhm-teen months nay I say, the last uhm-teen YEARS to see when and where that girdle of F/M would show its shiny buckle once more. I know it had a great use for a whole lot of jokes.

Roy, put on girdle, put on the dress (off stage), grab the mop, and start cleaning up the explosion, it’s your only hope.

P.s. The tea party...
I bet that guy is a gnome. how else can he understand the woodland creature? but he is a bit tall for a gnome...

[Jades]

I think he's refering to the fact that this thread seems to be moving slowly when some people post, because its slightly clogged. If (There's that word again) things are as I expect, things should clear up soon.

[Hydro]

Oh.

Ohoh.

O ho ho ho ho...

Great commic. XD

[manscatha]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!!!

I can't believe Rich actually used that stuff ;D

I just hope he doesn't make them kiss (in a usual kiss-the-leading-actress-to-hide scene) ;)


Oh God no. Elan already has a mancrush on Roy. It'd be just too weird. Especially if Haley chooses that moment to return.

[ref]

Well, what can I say that hasn't been said already?

This will be veeeeery fun!

[Caelestion]

The belts! The belts!

Cael.

[ref]

Well, what can I say that hasn't been said already?

This will be veeeeery fun!

[Asmodeus]

ROY HAS BOOBIES!

[Seraph]

In D&D it is impossible to wear two belts.


untrue. there's an epic feat that allows you to wear multiple magic equipment of the same type.

[Flak_Razorwill]

Roy's gonna get out SO easily this time.

[Jades]

untrue. there's an epic feat that allows you to wear multiple magic equipment of the same type.


Oh... shiney.

[Prince_Azar]

No...you don't *need* a feat to wear two belts. You can wear any non magical belts in any amount you want. You can wear two magical, but only the first one will work(barring the epic feat)

[SabreGuy]

HA HA HA HA HA! THE BELT!!

*gasp*

HA HA HA HA HA HA, and that grin on Elan! *gasp for air*

*collapses in laughter*

Oh I haven't laughed that hard at a comic in AGES... I COMPLETELY forgot that Elan pilfered the belt of masculinity/feminity. Definitely didn't see that one coming, this is excellent. I know people post every week "Best comic EVARRRR!!!!" but seriously, this is the most I've laughed at a web comic... probably since the day I discovered this site.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

OH GOD! It's gonna be funny! It's gonna be funny!

[Prince_Azar]

Let me guess, Roy and Elan walk out...as a married couple? As a couple at all? :o

[Kulatu]

Bwahahahahahahahahahah!


Two Thumbs Up!

[Platinum_Mongoose]

OH GOD! It's gonna be funny! It's gonna be funny!

[Gilandrin]

That was great, And completely unexpected too!
We are left with with HUGE suspense and I can hardly wait for the next installment. Well done Rick. :)

[Aerysil1]

I was starting to think that the belt was totally forgotten about. I wondered way back at the beginning of time why Elan took an interest in it.

[triffid]

Oh, yeah. This is going to be good.

[Vlork]

Brilliant! This is one of the best in a long time!

[mimicgogo]

It just makes ya think again about the kind of forethought the Giant is showing. The girdle was snagged back in #9; even if this particular use wasn't planned, just to come back to it is amazing.

[Sundog]

Now-we just have to get rid of the doppleganger that is currently impersonating Elan, and everything will be fine! (Oh, come on - he successfully dealt with the Ogre Guard, now he's come up with a workable escape plan? IT'S NOT ELAN!)

[Nightmarenny]

Or Elan has gained a level and put the freepoint in int. ;D

[metz]

I'll sya, I was wondering what was going on, Elan was being all useful all of a sudden...

I wanna know if its like a belt of change alignment too, and Roy actually BECOMES female, then it would be funny, cos he would realise what a b!tch miko is to everyone, and it will cause a lot of oddness with the males.

(p.s. who wants to see V try it on? ten bucks he'd look exactly the same, stupid androgenous elves)

[Winged One]

MUAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Oh my *looks for "apropriate" deity* Furaxamor, that had me in stitches. Mr. Barlew, you are a genius.

EDIT: Whoops, laughed so hard I streatched the page.

[Mr._Blinky]

Who wants to bet the Gian leaves Roy like that for a longggg time (and by this I mean like 50+ strips)?
I mean, come on, it'd be frigging hilarious! :D

[Devoured_Dude]

Well Roy, at least now the bunny slippers will look more appropriate...

[omikapsi]

Man, poor Roy.

First, his lifelong quest is resolved quite anticlimactically, (Xykon didn't even remember Roys father)
In the same period of time, his family heirloom sword is destroyed,
His most recent crush turns out to be an uptight domineering jerk who is oblivious to his feelings,
He is left as the default babysitter for Elan on a regular basis, (not the worst of these, but still pretty awful for him)
It seems that he finally catches a break, and it turns sour (impersonating royalty semi-deliberately, only to be the subject of an assassination attempt)
And now he's going to have to adjust to life as a female.

Not that it's a bad thing, it's just going to be really difficult, guys have it so much easier, on a number of fronts. (I should know, I am one)

[phlip]

Though this is probably the first time since strip #9 that there's been more than a week (ok, I'm exaggerating, so sue me) between helpful new fans coming to the montly thread and reminding Rich about the girdle, asking if it will return...

Coincidence?

[Kingrat]

it should be very apparent by now, that the Giant doesn't make visual details without reason. Those bunny slipers are coming into play sooner than expected!

The asssasins seem to be very honourable though, perhaps another plot twist in the making.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

And finally, after all these months... the gender-bender belt has been revealed once again!

[mossfoot]

Wonder if this will be a Ramna 1/2 situation... where Miho REALLY likes the female Roy ;)

[Taelas]

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

BRILLIANT! ;D

[Adolfo]

*Imagines a female Roy*

Sooooo.....Cold........

[Malachi, the Lich King]

Dang, the belt did come back. I wasn't sure it was ever going to make another appearance but there it is, just like many magic items on your character sheet; lost, ignored and completely forgotten about until the right situation comes up and then a bacon-saver.

[WampaX]

Dang, the belt did come back. I wasn't sure it was ever going to make another appearance but there it is, just like many magic items on your character sheet; lost, ignored and completely forgotten about until the right situation comes up and then a bacon-saver.

Mmmmm . . . . bacon . . .

Actually, I usually find that magic items are "found" again after the point at which they would be useful. A Wand of Detect traps being "rediscovered" after 2 tons of rock had collapsed and killed 1/2 the party, lets say.
(Actually happened . . . With the wizard holding it up and asking, "Would this have been helpful?")

[King_Troll]

ah, the girdle of gender changing. And don't forget, Roy has "Great Cleavage" (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=102)

[Rawhide]

ah, the girdle of gender changing. And don't forget, Roy has "Great Cleavage" (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=102)

Oh my, now I am fearing the new Roy, I can just see him (errr, her) with some "Great Cleavage". *shudder*

[Hermes]

Roy looks soooo scared of that belt.

[Drake_Darkfire]

All that time of secretly having that belt and it finally makes its spotlight. I never thought it would return. This is gonna get good... ;D

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=102

hehehe... great cleavage

[Jades]

How many people are going to make that joke?

*bangs head against the brick wall of the dorm room*

[Marller]

I thought, if the girdle would make its reappearance, someone would wear it by accident but this is just perfect. ;D
Roy almost has to take the girdle unless he wants to die fighting. :D

[RebelRogue]

When I read today's strip I just felt like yelling "YEEESSS!!!" very loudly ;D

Well actually, it's yersterday's strip, but I just read it today...

[Nixie]

OMG! what if Elan and the Gender-Altered Roy have 2 kiss and Roy takes off the belt and goes back to male Roy just as Haley is walking in!!! OMG she WOULD pull a Belkar!!! B/c maybe she saw them kiss!
And then she saw the female Roy go to a male Roy!

Pssst. She might even get angry w/ Elan!!

[Wrecan]

That sounds more like an episode of Three's Company than an OOTS strip. :)

[LordMiritar]

Sorry to burst your funny-bubble, but the Girdle, as a cursed item can only be taken off with a spell. Unless, of course, Giant uses his creative license and makes it different, which is completely acceptable.

[Jimi]

FINALLY!!! I HAVE WAITED THIS DAY FOR SOOO LONG! :)

[Eriol]

Sorry to burst your funny-bubble, but the Girdle, as a cursed item can only be taken off with a spell. Unless, of course, Giant uses his creative license and makes it different, which is completely acceptable.
Is it a real D&D item, or something the Giant made up? If he made it up, then why does it have to be cursed?

[mossfoot]

It's a very old cursed item, used to much the amusement of many a DM (and even appeared in Baldur's Gate)

[Kish]

It's from D&D, and it's cursed there. Of course, this might be different, but that seems like it would make for much fewer jokes.

[fwiffo]

Is it a real D&D item, or something the Giant made up? If he made it up, then why does it have to be cursed?

Apparently, a real item in 2nd edition (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-113327.html). And, yes, cursed.

[Sylvius]

It is but one of many great magic items from earlier editions that were dropped in the conversion to 3E.

[AtomicKitKat]

*snicker* The fact that the curse attribute is no longer wholly specific gives me plenty of fun ideas. Instead of lycanthropy, the character will now suffer from gynanthropy, wherein the belt rolls a d4, and the character has a chance to wind up either male, female, both, or neither, and remain that way till the next full moon(or whatever medium-term trigger) ;)

[triffid]

It is but one of many great magic items from earlier editions that were dropped in the conversion to 3E.

So that's what it was doing in the dungeon.

[Eriol]

Oh an btw Giant, I'd recommend you get the new comic up EARLY tomorrow or people will be hitting "refresh" all day long (more than usual for a Mon/Wed/Fri I mean) and canning your internet access. Which is bad.

:(

[Buzzaro]

How many people are going to make that joke?

*bangs head against the brick wall of the dorm room*

I know how you feel. I get the same way when there is one word replies to messages. it just seem to make the thread longer and close quicker.

[sithninjapirate]

Wow. The next may be the best strip ever.

[ironoutlaw]

I'm guessing roy or elan knows the dwarf

Thats how a dwarf picks a lock thar! Too bad it leaves all this smoke...
and they don't recognize eachother because of the smoke, so roy and elan come out of the closet and recognize the dwarf, diplomatic solution (with a chance that belkar or haley stabs the dwarf in the back afterwards).

[Jothki]

It is but one of many great magic items from earlier editions that were dropped in the conversion to 3E.

Couldn't you still have a generic belt with that specific curse on it?

[mastroyo]

Oh an btw Giant, I'd recommend you get the new comic up EARLY tomorrow or people will be hitting "refresh" all day long (more than usual for a Mon/Wed/Fri I mean) and canning your internet access. Which is bad.

:(

I guess this is the ususal Mon/Wed/Fri, after all, OoTS should be banned as beeing adictive.


I will insist on this. EVERY BIT of Giant wisdom is grateously (not right i know) placed at our disposal: in the FORM and FUNCTION we can see how he creates this plots... I don't know if "you'r aprovall fills me with shame" is best part of this site, the newest comic, or those articles he wrote.

PS: i know my english sucks. es ist nicht meine Muttersprache. (obviously for all german folks, german isn't either...)

[Midnight Son]

PS: i know my english sucks. es ist nicht meine Muttersprache. (obviously for all german folks, german isn't either...)
It's better than some of us native English speakers seem to be able to manage. We can understand you just fine.

Can't wait to see what happens with that belt. Going to bed soon so that tomorrow will come quicker.

[Swiftbow]

Sorry to burst your funny-bubble, but the Girdle, as a cursed item can only be taken off with a spell. Unless, of course, Giant uses his creative license and makes it different, which is completely acceptable.

Actually, to quote from the 2nd Ed DMG:
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity:
This broad leather band appears to be a normal belt, but, if buckled on, it will immediately change the sex of its wearer to the opposite gender. It then loses all power. There is no sure way to restore the character's original sex, although there is a 50% chance a wish might do so, and a powerful being can change the situation. In other words, it takes a godlike creature to set matters aright with certainty. Ten percent of these girdles actually remove all sex from the wearer.

It was only in Baldur's Gate that the belt worked like other cursed items, in that it only worked while being worn and could be removed with remove curse.

[Tanaar]

Plus, of course, that would satisfy my OOTS fix nice and early!

Seriously though, take your time. No rush.

*refresh*
....
....
....
*refresh*


Oh an btw Giant, I'd recommend you get the new comic up EARLY tomorrow or people will be hitting "refresh" all day long (more than usual for a Mon/Wed/Fri I mean) and canning your internet access. Which is bad.

:(

[Pagan]

Actually, to quote from the 2nd Ed DMG:
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity:
This broad leather band appears to be a normal belt, but, if buckled on, it will immediately change the sex of its wearer to the opposite gender. It then loses all power. There is no sure way to restore the character's original sex, although there is a 50% chance a wish might do so, and a powerful being can change the situation. In other words, it takes a godlike creature to set matters aright with certainty. Ten percent of these girdles actually remove all sex from the wearer.

It was only in Baldur's Gate that the belt worked like other cursed items, in that it only worked while being worn and could be removed with remove curse.

Roy would die when he heard this :D

[Elethiomel]

Actually, to quote from the 2nd Ed DMG:
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity:
This broad leather band appears to be a normal belt, but, if buckled on, it will immediately change the sex of its wearer to the opposite gender. It then loses all power. There is no sure way to restore the character's original sex, although there is a 50% chance a wish might do so, and a powerful being can change the situation. In other words, it takes a godlike creature to set matters aright with certainty. Ten percent of these girdles actually remove all sex from the wearer.

It was only in Baldur's Gate that the belt worked like other cursed items, in that it only worked while being worn and could be removed with remove curse.


Also, this is manifestly not true of the Giant's version of the belt. We can see in strip #5 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=5) and #9 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=9) that the Ogre did change gender after the belt was removed.

The Giant sometimes changes a name or some properties of spells (at least) otherwise, to keep things fresh I presume.

[phlip]

The Giant sometimes changes a name or some properties of spells (at least) otherwise, to keep things fresh I presume.
Vis: Don't Question the Color of the Bag (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=167), after people were noticing (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1112345490 ;start=344#344) that the bag was tan, but producing animals as if it was a grey bag.

[GreyRat]

Broke into an inn in Somewhere,
His majesty's form graced an easy chair.
He the target at first sight,
Roy knows it's wrong, but dwarf thinks it's all right (that's right!)
Broom closet, running out of time
For their lives, until the bard say
'Hey wait- I've got the perfect disguise!'
Then she whipped out her Green-Hilt
And tried to cleave him away!

(da-da, da-da)
Dude becomes a lady!
(da-da, da-da)
Dude becomes a lady!
(da-da, da-da)
Dude becomes a lady!
(da-da, da-da)
Dude becomes a lady!

[eof]

Hahahahaha! Roy's gonna get boobies!

How long have we been waiting to see what became of that belt? My guess is that Roy's new image is going to be hott!
Two words: White Chicks.

[Flippy]

I doubt Royette will be very attractive, his Charisma isn't that high.
refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh... sigh.
Take your time dude, but i really wanna know what happens next!

[eof]

Off Topic:


[...] I know in Magic the Gathering if two things have conflicting rules the one that came into play 'first' applies. [...]

Um, actually, no, (assuming the effects are in the same layer) the effects are applied in timestamp order from first to last, so the newest one applies if there are any direct conflicts. For instance, if your opponent plays Confiscate ("You control enchanted permanent.") on one of your permanents and you later play a Confiscate of your own on the same permanent, you control the permanent.

[Marller]

In other words, it takes a godlike creature to set matters aright with certainty.

Maybe Lord Shojo can help or one of those gates.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Also, this is manifestly not true of the Giant's version of the belt. We can see in strip #5 and #9 that the Ogre did change gender after the belt was removed.
Except the ogre was dead. For all we know it is permanent, only ended by death.


I doubt Royette will be very attractive, his Charisma isn't that high.
Aghhhh, for the last time, charisma doesn't need to mean good looks!

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Aghh, your milking us for all you're worth!

Friday to see Rose Greenhilt...

*weeps*

[GreyRat]

Rockin'! Way to go Roy, makin' a 'titanic' sacrifice for a buddy! ;D
Hope his shirt has room for the Tunic Torpedoes...

[Gary_Schaper]

OMFG, he went and did it. ("She" ? This is going to be so confusing now.)

:o Just :o

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I wonder... Ray's head was shaven, this mean he's going to be a bald chick or does the belt grow him some hair by default? ;)

[Elethiomel]

I wonder... Ray's head was shaven, this mean he's going to be a bald chick or does the belt grow him some hair by default? ;)


There's always the mop...

[Techonce]

HAHAHAHAH.

Way to go Roy!

I think Rose is the best name for him so far.

Lets just hope that Haley doesn't see him trying to suck the poison from Elan's wound...

[Liquid]

The "Trouser Titan" - wahhahahhahahaha. No this can't be real. This is by far the funniest strip since about #100.


Way to go, Giant ;D

[Jevanyn]

Posted by: Eriol Posted on: Oct 18th, 2005, 6:07pm
Oh an btw Giant, I'd recommend you get the new comic up EARLY tomorrow or people will be hitting "refresh" all day long (more than usual for a Mon/Wed/Fri I mean) and canning your internet access. Which is bad. [hr]
Posted by: The Giant Posted on: Today at 8:59am
New comic is up. [hr]

Looks like he heard you :-)




[hr]
Posted by: Pagan Posted on: Today at 2:18am
on Today at 1:10am, Swiftbow wrote:

Actually, to quote from the 2nd Ed DMG:
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity:
...There is no sure way to restore the character's original sex....[hr]
Giant bends the rules for comic value. How much do you want to bet V turns Roy/LaToya into a lizard first? :D






[hr]
Posted by: mastroyo Posted on: Oct 18th, 2005, 11:20pm
....EVERY BIT of Giant wisdom is grateously (not right i know) placed at our disposal ...
[hr]
I'm guessing you mean graciously?

(snicker @ trouser titan)

[NEO|Phyte]

There is only one emote with the raw awesomeness to show how this strip makes me feel:


:D

[carabaldo]

I wonder... Ray's head was shaven, this mean he's going to be a bald chick or does the belt grow him some hair by default? ;)

Actually making hair grow is nothing compared to everyhing else the belt does
uhr uhr uhr

[Mors_Nocte]

Wonderful strip! Can't wait until Friday...

[ChristopherDK]

HE DID IT.. now all that needs to happen is that V or Durkan rushes to the door to see if Roy and Elan are okay. it would be soo funny if rescue has allready arrived, but Royina didn't realise it.

instant classic

[Hydro]

Apparently, shiruken deal enough damage to plow through full cover and still hit their target, and either poisons are color-coded according to the ability that they damage or that particular ninja puts stickers on all his shiruken listing that info.

Hmm...

;)

Awesome comic, giant. I'm starting to really look forward to each update again.

[Theragar]

Great strip! By far one of the funniest! :D

[Greebo]

Not Royina, I think, but Rowina. (Row as in row your boat, ina as in tina).

And GREAT plot twist... what will Ms. Perfect Paladin say now??

Oh wait, she doesn't know hes a man anyway... ;)

[Pvednes]

What're the odds we get a cut to something else for the next few comics, ensuring we have to wait in anticipation for the next "Roy has boobies!" joke?

[Greebo]

What if he's flat?

Gods, I don't know what concept is scarier... the idea of Roy being an ugly chick, or a hot one...

[Silverblaze]

Hmmm... Considering that Roy didn't even want to go rescue Elan from the Bandits, I say that pulling a stunt like that - our Hero - ehrr - make that Heroine ;D has come a long way since then ;)

[Silmarwen]

IIIHIHIHIHIHIHI!!!!!
...Trouser Titan...
IIIIIIIHIHIHIHIHIHIHIHIHIHIHI!!!!!!
:D:D:D

[Greebo]

Hmmm... Considering that Roy didn't even want to go rescue Elan from the Bandits, I say that pulling a stunt like that - our Hero - ehrr - make that Heroine ;D has come a long way since then ;)
Well remember, (s)he did have that long talk with h(im/er)self in the woods where (s)he convinced h(im/er)self that h(is/er) father would have told h(im/er) that h(is/er) job was to defend the idiot. ;)

(S)He sure has come a long way, baby!

[Silverblaze]

Well remember, (s)he did have that long talk with h(im/er)self in the woods where (s)he convinced h(im/er)self that h(is/er) father would have told h(im/er) that h(is/er) job was to defend the idiot. ;)

(S)He sure has come a long way, baby!


Hmmm... As per genderwise grammar - Lady Greenhilt and V might be under the same "hat" from now and till whenever ;) I wonder how Lady Greenhilt is going to behave towards Miko in the here after the change. I guess the belt wont have any influence on hir still feeling infatuated with a certain at time annoying paladin ;D

[GreyRat]

Considering that Roy's father favored his daughter anyway (according to Book 0), this might actually improve their relations. I'd love for him to visit 'Regina': "Behold! I have returned to... Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were your brother!" "<sigh> Hi Dad. And I *am* my brother. I mean..."

[Nykooo]

Well sometime you just get a feeling. I am quite sure Miko's going to try to hit on her now that Roy is a she. I don't know what was roy Comliness or charisma but I expect it does not change with the belt so ... Well I'll just keep reading ;D

[OldFart]

I just realized that immediately after Roy becomes a woman, he and Elan will be “coming out of the closet.” ::)

Sometimes the subtler humor the Giant puts in is the best.

[Kadi]

Hrm...he referred to it as a new and *exciting* way to disappoint his father....

[phlip]

Hrm...he referred to it as a new and *exciting* way to disappoint his father....
Well, if it were me, and it were temporary, I'd call it exciting.

What?

[Gleanerizer]

I'm surprised Roy didn't call it "the Giant in my pants". Though now that I think about it I'd imagine the Giant keeps that one for himself.

How hard is it to identify poison just by looking at it? Roy's pretty sharp...

Also, that ninja really knows his stuff. If I could make shuriken fly through doors like that I would make it my living.

[Caelestion]

While *I* think that Elan is gay, I wouldn't have thought that Miko was too. Then again, you see so many evil lesbians that a good lesbian might be a nice idea!

Cael.

[Ilaun_Undil]

You know lately Elan seems to be rather useful the neat ogre trick, now this. you know it make me think he might be getting smarter, dun dun dunnnnnn. BTW is the belt really a curse? if it only turns you into the opposit sex, how bad can it be? well I guess it answeres itself :( anyway good luck to Roy getting intouch with his feminine side.
Ohh the humility!!! lol

[ref]

DUDES! NO SPOILERS!!!

[sniffles]

"Trouser Titan" <snort>

I'll be making sacrifices to the gods of good karma on Rich's behalf, because I can't wait to see Friday's installment and nothing must deny my entertainment!! ;D

[pclips]

When there's trouble you know who to call
Trouser Titans!
From their tower, they can see it all
Trouser Titans!
When there's evil on the attack
You can rest knowing they got your back
Cuz when the world needs heroes on patrol

Trouser Titans GO!

[Gary_Schaper]

I wonder how Lady Greenhilt
Technically, that's "Dame Greenhilt". ;D

(Is Roy actually a knight, entitled to a "Sir"?)

[felblood]

Exceleent! ;D

Nothing like duty to his teammates to force Roy into doing something he doesn't want to, and everyone else wants to see.

Even if Elan is totally useless, and Roy ocasionally hates him, Roy could never let a comrade die right in front of him. Besides, Elan is actually shaping up into a halfway decent adventurer.

Edit:"Trouser Titan"? :-/
I didn't need that in my head!

[Eriol]

I actually knew a girl named Rowina.

And as for the "Elan is gay" theory, he definitely didn't have any hesitation for Samantha, and even stuck around BECAUSE he heard she was good looking, etc. So even if it's in the "bard charter" to seduce evil women, I still think it was VERY willingly.

Still, since they kept saying to send his jester out, hopefully Elan doesn't NEED to self-illusion himself for Roy's female self to get him out of there.

[Callista]

Re. Roy recognizing poison:

Recognizing Constitution damage should be a simple Heal check. Roy seems to have decent WIS, and seems the sort to take a few ranks in cross-class Heal... So I don't see why he shouldn't have made a Heal check to detect Constitution damage, especially if it's bad enough that Elan is conscious but prone (either 0 HP or Elan's dramatics again).

Elan is probably pretty bad off, by the way: Shuriken don't do all that much damage; so if his CON is low enough that the Shuriken damage takes his HP down to zero (or pretty near it), chances are the secondary damage from that poison will kill him, whether he makes his save or not.

Hmm, this is definitely dramatic... true Elan style!

[ref]

DUDES! NO SPOILERS!!!

[AtomicKitKat]

that particular ninja puts stickers on all his shiruken listing that info.

Maybe. Personally, I would at least code my shuriken by poison-type(as well as whether they have no poison), either by painting them a certain colour, or putting them in specific pouches/bandoliers. You never know when you would need to use one to cut yourself and remove that hoard scarab.

[phlip]

We can only give spoilers about future strips if we actually know something about the future strips. We don't.

Educated guesses (or wild guesses as the case may be) are not spoilers.

[Ladoran]

Oh goody. Now there is another reason to look forward to friday :). I love the name "Trouser Titan" but Elan's reaction to the fact is beautiful as well... and then there is Roy's comment of "a new and exciting way in which I can disappoint my father."

I would agree with other posters that Roy has come quite a way since he wouldn't rescue Elan from the bandits.

Here's to hoping no wardrobes will be lurking in dark alleys to assault Rich.

[Slibs]

Given all the terrible things that could happen to you in early edition D&D, from Swords of Wounding to Vorpal Blades, Rot Grubs, Molds, Jellies, etc etc, every single one of which could be fixed by Remove Curse, a Heal Spell, or Raise Dead. All of which are mid level spells. The Girdle of Feminity was pretty much the only thing that had no easy "cure" up to and including the most powerful magic available, a Wish.

Gygax had issues.

[moryath]

Best line in the last comic:

"...and I was curious."

Can't believe so many people think "Trouser Titan" is better.

Gawd... every day I get a new strip it's like taking an entire Robin Williams stand-up hour and compressing the humor into 5 minutes. Good job, Giant!

[Eriol]

I just had a rather disturbing thought: what if the next sub-plot is to cure Roy?

[Slibs]

Why do I have the feeling that Royesha will always be off panel or hidden like the Shadow Lackey? Or a cut to Xykon for 10 or so strips and we come back to see "Wow! That was amazing I can't believe it worked!"

[mossfoot]

Best line in the last comic:

"...and I was curious."

Totally agree. There is a WHOLE other story to that one line ;)

[Duskrider_Moogle]

Totally agree. There is a WHOLE other story to that one line ;)

"Because, whatever you might have heard about what happened at band camp..."

[Doug_Lampert]

Don't forget that the King of Nowhere is going to show up soon, looks JUST LIKE Roy, and that Miko thinks she has arrested Roy and needs to take him back to her home.

There are still whole levels of possibilities.

[Devoured_Dude]

"And I was curious" BWAHAHA, classic Elan! Better luck next time keeping that internal monologue to yourself. ;)

I haven't laughed this hard at an OOTS sequence for 140 strips or so. Rich is at the top of his game.

BTW, I did call Roy considering the broomstick as an improvised quarterstaff. Classic fighter problem-solving.

[ScreamerSimon]

Actually making hair grow is nothing compared to everyhing else the belt does
uhr uhr uhr

At least on the ogre hair growth was included!

[felblood]

DUDES! NO SPOILERS!!!

DUDES! NO SPOILERS!!!

DUDES! NO SPOILERS!!!

Dude...No spamming.


Best line in the last comic:

"...and I was curious."

Can't believe so many people think "Trouser Titan" is better.


Yeah, but we expect that kind of stuff from Elan. This is a side of Roy's personality we never expected (or wanted) to discover.

After all, we knew Elan had taken the belt for more than just it's practical value.

[Marller]

I just had a rather disturbing thought: what if the next sub-plot is to cure Roy?

Does not necessarily need to be a long subplot. But long enough for all the jokes that can be made. ;D

[sniffles]

DUDES! NO SPOILERS!!!
What? Anyone who's posting here should have read the comic already!! :P

[AntiSean]

I don't know which is better, the "...and I was curious." line, or the fact that the shuriken(s?) made the same sound crashing through the wooden door as they did through the glass window - brilliant! :)

[WampaX]

What? Anyone who's posting here should have read the comic already!! :P


I believe they may be refering to Book 0's contents. Not to the general discussion of the strips on the site.

[Devoured_Dude]

Don't forget that the King of Nowhere is going to show up soon, looks JUST LIKE Roy, and that Miko thinks she has arrested Roy and needs to take him back to her home.

There are still whole levels of possibilities.

Good point. Not to mention that Elan might be unconscious and unable to clear up the the confusion. Or conscious and too inept to clear up the confusion.

[eof]

Elan is probably pretty bad off, by the way: Shuriken don't do all that much damage; so if his CON is low enough that the Shuriken damage takes his HP down to zero (or pretty near it), chances are the secondary damage from that poison will kill him, whether he makes his save or not.

It's an impossible scenario (barring poetic licence of course). I only have the 3.0 books available, but I assume that it hasn't changed that shurikens only deal 1 damage and you always have 1 HP/level regardless of how low your CON is. Elan is currently alive, meaning his current CON must be above zero. Regardless of its value, he'll have at least one HP per level, meaning about 10 or more. Thus, he can't be at zero HP, since he was only hit twice for two HP. (Assuming the shuriken weren't magical, of course.)

Therefore, I present the following scenario: Roy mistook the poison to be a CON poison. It actually was either a DEX poison or a STR poison (STR is more likely, assuming Elan's DEX is reasonably high and in any case higher than his STR), or some poison with paralytic properties. While we know that the Shadowdancer also has access to lethal poison, both attackers have shown concern about innocent bystanders, so it is not too farfetched to assume that when attacking blindly he might use some non-lethal means to disable anyone hit rather than killing them outright.

If this is the case, imagine the look on Roy's face when he learns that Elan never was in danger of dying and that he didn't need to put on the girdle after all but could instead have fought with the mop as he intended!

[Monzz]

Trouser Titan? ;D

[Knot_Yew]

Even if his hair doesn't grow he can always use the mop head.

[Techonce]

It's an impossible scenario (barring poetic licence of course). I only have the 3.0 books available, but I assume that it hasn't changed that shurikens only deal 1 damage and you always have 1 HP/level regardless of how low your CON is. Elan is currently alive, meaning his current CON must be above zero. Regardless of its value, he'll have at least one HP per level, meaning about 10 or more. Thus, he can't be at zero HP, since he was only hit twice for two HP. (Assuming the shuriken weren't magical, of course.)


Actually you can die if you CON drops but does not hit 0, even if you are not hurt. You are always guaranteed 1 HP per level when you gain a level, but a drop in CON can kill you. Also Elan has yet to suffer the secondary damage. It is possible that that will kill him off anyway.

Also, they don't have Roy confused with the King of Nowhere because of his looks, they have him confused with the King of Nowhere due to the fact they are well... confused.

[Kish]

Yeah, but they know the King of Nowhere is not a woman.

[BurntOfferings]

Actually you can die if you CON drops but does not hit 0, even if you are not hurt.
How? An unhurt creature with N hit dice will always have at least N hit points (page 290 of the DMG).

[Ilaun_Undil]

You know lately Elan seems to be rather useful the neat ogre trick, now this. you know it make me think he might be getting smarter, dun dun dunnnnnn. BTW is the belt really a curse? if it only turns you into the opposit sex, how bad can it be? well I guess it answeres itself :( anyway good luck to Roy getting intouch with his feminine side.
Ohh the humility!!! lol

[Flak_Razorwill]

Trouser Titan? ;D

Yeah: I get it. He's black, so the huge winky steotype applies. I....um...guess.

*Keeps watching Full Metal Jacket.*

So if R...She-Roy manages to outsmart them by dragging Elan out and saying the King's somewhere else, they've got it made! Elan's wounded, and since it seems the assassins are fairly nice guys (no mass death) they'll let them live. Unless, ahem, they like hostages.

I wouldn't be too worried about the belt. They took it off that monster eariler, and it turned into a woman after that. So if Roy just takes it off, he'll become normal. So what's wrong? (Granted, the troll/orc/whatever died in order to become normal again but there's no concrete scientific proof. I know I could be wrong, but I've got a plan and I'm sticking to it. Besides, how annoying would it be to have Roy a female for the next 30 strips? V as a lizard wasn't too bad, but this is reaching.)

Finally: I like Regina. No clue why, just sounds like Roy, as in "Roi", the french word for king. Regime, ruler, leadership...

Maybe Roy really IS a king and doesn't know it. Worked for Mel Brooks.

[Starbuck_II]

When there's trouble you know who to call
Trouser Titans!
From their tower, they can see it all
Trouser Titans!
When there's evil on the attack
You can rest knowing they got your back
Cuz when the world needs heroes on patrol

Trouser Titans GO!

Bravo, bravo, bravissimo. Great song.

So do you think Roy was waiting to show off his Titan to Miko?

[Kish]

Reaching? Roy as a woman is worse than Vaarsuvius as a lizard?

::)

Don't let Vaarsuvius hear you say that, or s/he may "forget" that his/her spellbook includes the spell Remove Curse.

[Flak_Razorwill]

Reaching? Roy as a woman is worse than Vaarsuvius as a lizard?

::)

Don't let Vaarsuvius hear you say that, or s/he may "forget" that his/her spellbook includes the spell Remove Curse.

Well, who says that this is a curse? It could be an enchantment (basically benevolent/meaningless curse).

Women...pff.

[chiefwaha]

How? An unhurt creature with N hit dice will always have at least N hit points (page 290 of the DMG).

Poisoned in my opinion is hurt. So if Elan has 10 HD, a minimum 10 HP, and a 10 Con and take 2 con damage he drops to 0. Take another 2 con as secondary damage and he's at -10.

[Kizor]

Hi, I'm just popping in for a moment to point out that neither Roy nor Elan is actually drawn with pants. ::)

Now for pointlessness. I wrote a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Femininity/Masculinity) on the infamous item a while back for no particular reason. I thought you might get a kick of the girdle having its own entry plus I'm curious about what D&D geeks can do to improve it. Feel free to edit, I'll try to watch over it for any necessary copyediting (though even I need sleep). Please don't add a note of the girdle's appearance in Order of the Stick - it's not a notable enough detail.

[Eriol]

I wrote a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girdle_of_Femininity/Masculinity) on the infamous item a while back for no particular reason.
Wiki really DOES have all human knowledge in it now...

[Techonce]

How? An unhurt creature with N hit dice will always have at least N hit points (page 290 of the DMG).

Oops... I guess the fighter in my campaign should still be alive then... :-/ Oh well... He like his new character more anyway.

ADDED NOTE: I finally made dwarf. My days as a pixie are now over!

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Roy didn't put on the belt.

Think about it:

We just see him talking about letting his father down and a flash. It would be very much The Giant's style to have somethng else happen, something entirely unexpected. Maybe he's secretly a double-classed sorceror and just read a scroll or something? I've no idea, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that Rich is pulling another of his delightful tricks on us.

[DeathQuaker]

It's possible that one of the poison's effects is unconsciousness, which is a feature of a number of poisons separate from ability damage. If his con had already dropped to 0 he'd be dead. But since he's fallen unconscious there's no way of telling how bad off he is. Hence Roy risking ultimate embarrassment for the life of his friend. Hopefully Roy will never know just _how_ close to dead Elan is, just in case he wasn't really that bad off to begin with. :)

For the record, I think Roy should choose the name "Daphne." It's prettier. ;)

(Catchers of the reference will win a virtual cookie.)

[Hydro]

"Sh! They're coming out!"
"Hey! It's the gester! And.. um, a mysteriously appearing woman with the King of Nowhere's height, weight, skin color, clothing and equipment, wearing a Belt of Gender-changing."
"..."

[evnafets]

Actually, to quote from the 2nd Ed DMG:
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity:
This broad leather band appears to be a normal belt, but, if buckled on, it will immediately change the sex of its wearer to the opposite gender. It then loses all power. There is no sure way to restore the character's original sex, although there is a 50% chance a wish might do so, and a powerful being can change the situation. In other words, it takes a godlike creature to set matters aright with certainty. Ten percent of these girdles actually remove all sex from the wearer.


Does this mean that V is already wearing a belt like this?
After all it didn't take THAT long to identify what it was. Prior knowledge perhaps?

[Slibs]

And what happens when Elan recovers with no memory of what happened and some bizarre insane woman is claiming ti be Roy?

[ref]

No spoilers was directed to that "Acording to book 0"

Sorry for the triple-posting. I got lost of ISEs

[moryath]

It's an impossible scenario (barring poetic licence of course). I only have the 3.0 books available, but I assume that it hasn't changed that shurikens only deal 1 damage and you always have 1 HP/level regardless of how low your CON is. Elan is currently alive, meaning his current CON must be above zero. Regardless of its value, he'll have at least one HP per level, meaning about 10 or more. Thus, he can't be at zero HP, since he was only hit twice for two HP. (Assuming the shuriken weren't magical, of course.)

Therefore, I present the following scenario: Roy mistook the poison to be a CON poison. It actually was either a DEX poison or a STR poison (STR is more likely, assuming Elan's DEX is reasonably high and in any case higher than his STR), or some poison with paralytic properties. While we know that the Shadowdancer also has access to lethal poison, both attackers have shown concern about innocent bystanders, so it is not too farfetched to assume that when attacking blindly he might use some non-lethal means to disable anyone hit rather than killing them outright.

If this is the case, imagine the look on Roy's face when he learns that Elan never was in danger of dying and that he didn't need to put on the girdle after all but could instead have fought with the mop as he intended!
If your Con reaches zero, you die. End of discussion.

[SpaceCoyoteVega]

If I were Roy, I'd also try to change my clothing to something that I wasn't wearing when I went in.

My suggestion:

Take Elan's cloak

Situate brass fastener over left shoulder

Wrap the back corner around to the front

Fasten this into a wrap skirt, possibly with some sort of belt you just happen to have lying around.

You'd then have yourself a rather fetching toga/serong sort of garment. It would also be convincingly feminine, and therefore by definition non-kingly.

Yay me! I gots suggestions.

[Starbuck_II]

Woudn't this make Roy a drag-queen? Get it: queen since he/she is now female ;D

[mastroyo]

If Rich goes to Xykon or the Linear Guild now, i swear i'm coming to his house to kick his ass... ;D

Just kidding Rich. But please don't. Pleeeeease?

This is the most expected comic since #199-#200

[Eriol]

This is the most expected comic since #199-#200
I STILL think it's hilarious that EVERYTHING Elan said could happen in a dramatic moment (kill attempt, traitor, and smooch) happens in #200.

[nihil8r]

TROUSER TITAN!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[bananna]

Ahahah!

What's the female version of Roy? Regina? Something like that.

[Theo_Axner]

For the record, I think Roy should choose the name "Daphne." It's prettier. ;)

(Catchers of the reference will win a virtual cookie.)

"'Daphne!?'
'I never liked Geraldine.'"

...or how was it? It's been a while since I watched 'Some Like It Hot', but it sure is a classic. :D

(I had to register just to get that cookie... ;))

[sniffles]

My friend/coworker just stopped by my desk and made an awesomely amusing suggestion regarding Friday's installment: what if we don't see what happens to Roy and the belt, but instead switch to what's up with the rest of the party. Haley and the others come to Roy's rescue before he can even try to get out of the broom closet. Then Haley gets jealous when she finds Elan in the closet with a woman!! :D :D

[Gary_Schaper]

Ahahah!

What's the female version of Roy? Regina? Something like that.
I liked somebody's "She-Roy". Nice Masters of the Universe reference there.

[Devils_Advocate]

Except the ogre was dead. For all we know it is permanent, only ended by death.
But the original 2nd Edition version of the Girdle loses all power after being used once, so it shouldn't have been identified as anything but an ordinary belt, I think. In any case, we now know it still works, as the flashy glowy effect on Roy in the last panel today clearly indicated a magical effect. And the description of the original Girdle doesn't say anything about the transformation reversing upon death -- quite the opposite. If one could undo its effects "merely" by killing and then raising the subject, they would actually be a lot easier to cure, albeit through extreme means (especially in 2nd Edition, in which I understand coming back from the dead was much more of an ordeal).

No, clearly this is a new, improved, 3rd Edition version of the belt, probably a standard cursed item with the gender change drawback. In which case it can be used multiple times, it can be removed with remove curse, and its effect end once it is removed. In theory.


Well, if it were me, and it were temporary, I'd call it exciting.

What?
"Well, you know, I thought it might come in handy some day. And I was curious."

Y'know, I would have kept that thing for those exact same reasons.

Are there really many people who wouldn't?


And as for the "Elan is gay" theory, he definitely didn't have any hesitation for Samantha, and even stuck around BECAUSE he heard she was good looking, etc. So even if it's in the "bard charter" to seduce evil women, I still think it was VERY willingly.
It also seems obvious that he finds Haley attractive (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=35). (Heck, once more (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=109) for good measure.)

That makes him the exception to the rule, of course. Obviously, male bards are gay. Being a traveling minstrel who wanders from town to town seducing beautiful women is clearly very gay. Not like, say, a big, manly soldier, who travels around with and bunks with other men, and hits similar men with his big, long, hard, powerful weapon while crying out in fury, almost as if he were releasing pent-up frustration of some sort. That is clearly oh so very, very heterosexual, in sharp contrast with the bard. ;)


We can only give spoilers about future strips if we actually know something about the future strips. We don't.

Educated guesses (or wild guesses as the case may be) are not spoilers.
Maybe he meant "predictions" instead of spoilers. We do have a sealed predictions thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1109876475 ) for those, after all.


Given all the terrible things that could happen to you in early edition D&D, from Swords of Wounding to Vorpal Blades, Rot Grubs, Molds, Jellies, etc etc, every single one of which could be fixed by Remove Curse, a Heal Spell, or Raise Dead. All of which are mid level spells. The Girdle of Feminity was pretty much the only thing that had no easy "cure" up to and including the most powerful magic available, a Wish.
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity. It effects women too, you know. (And "Feminity" is simply misspelled.)


Gygax had issues.
I suppose one would pretty much have to, one way or another, to make a "curse" whose primary effect is to annoy/humiliate the player so much more difficult to undo than other negative effects.

Seriously, it's like the thing was designed to appeal to evil DMs.


Dude...No spamming.
That was probably just the result of the board issues that apparently caused several people in this thread to multipost.

(While we're on the subject, I'd just like to point out the little "Remove" link one can see in the top right corner of one of one's own posts, along with "Quote" and "Modify", to those who may have missed that. No need to apologize for multiposting, you can just delete the offending extra post(s)!)


I don't know which is better, the "...and I was curious." line, or the fact that the shuriken(s?) made the same sound crashing through the wooden door as they did through the glass window - brilliant! :)
No, they made a "crrsh!" sound in #234 and a "teeysh!" sound in #233. The shuriken in fact make a different sound when going through wood than they do going through glass -- appropriately so!


Also, they don't have Roy confused with the King of Nowhere because of his looks, they have him confused with the King of Nowhere due to the fact they are well... confused.
Yeah, I had assumed that the hotel staff and the Shadowdancer just never saw the real King before, and thus don't know what he looks like. Though the dwarf does, for all we know, since he can't see Roy properly through all the smoke...

[ref]

Maybe he meant "predictions" instead of spoilers. We do have a sealed predictions thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1109876475 ) for those, after all.

No, I meant spoilers. See first post of this page.


(While we're on the subject, I'd just like to point out the little "Remove" link one can see in the top right corner of one of one's own posts, along with "Quote" and "Modify", to those who may have missed that. No need to apologize for multiposting, you can just delete the offending extra post(s)!)

Oh, I had missed that! Thanks a lot! :)

[Nightmarenny]

You know lately Elan seems to be rather useful the neat ogre trick, now this. you know it make me think he might be getting smarter, dun dun dunnnnnn. BTW is the belt really a curse? if it only turns you into the opposit sex, how bad can it be? well I guess it answeres itself :( anyway good luck to Roy getting intouch with his feminine side.
Ohh the humility!!! lol I have noticed this in many storys. I call it "the fry effect" after Fry from Futuama. Male charecters who are idiots tend to get smarter the closer to getting their love This is a very odd phenomenon.

[Jades]

Hrm... "The Fry Effect" seems to only work in cartoons. When I'm close to someone I like, as Jeffrey Murdoch does in "Coupling", I turn into a babbling idiot. The better my chances are with her, the more I resemble a Gibbering Mouthier.

[Tawkis]

I personally like

"Maybe I can tur that mop into an improvised quarterstaff..."
The point being that if you rip off the mop head, it IS a quarterstaff....
Stupid imrovised weapon rules...

[Hydro]

That makes him the exception to the rule, of course. Obviously, male bards are gay. Being a traveling minstrel who wanders from town to town seducing beautiful women is clearly very gay.

No, that's not quite it.

You see, it's all about the curly shoes with bells attached to them.

Elan, as you may well have noticed, and despite being a bard, owns no such curly shoes, with or without bells attached. Hence, not gay.

'S pretty simple, really.

[Lightman]

All I could think for the cliff hanger was
Dun Dun Dun! Roy is a girl!

[Kaerou]

So what are we gonna call Roy now?

Royalle?
Royella?
Roya?

[mastroyo]

Roy has an MBA, and acts as a smart fighter...
but the first thing he thinks is getting a mop to kick some ass?

Maybe he's faking his high inteligence. I know I do. ;D

Edited due to stupidity

[toysailor]

The mop would probably shatter right after the first blow. There's a reason why quaterstaffs are made of stout wood and often reinforced with steel bands.

[JeffreyToTheMax]

I call it "the fry effect" after Fry from Futuama.
It's called the Hawking Effect.

*Waits for someone to get the obscure reference*

[Beelzebub1111]

I have a question. How did roy know it was constitution poison? Is he a metagamer?

[Drake_Darkfire]

I thouhgt I would get to see the female Roy this time. I think the giant is stalling on purpose. He will most likely delay the appearance of "Royette" until it drives us all insane... :o

...Or it will show up friday. Who knows?

[Jades]

Craft (alchemy), Craft (poisons), or a Heal check would give you that kind of information... maybe not in that form however.

"This poison is made from the..." for the crafts or

A heal check would give it in that fashion, if the DM doesn't know how else to phrase it. (I don't...)

Heal's cross-class for Roy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has ranks in it.

[AtomicKitKat]

I have noticed this in many storys. I call it "the fry effect" after Fry from Futuama. Male charecters who are idiots tend to get smarter the closer to getting their love This is a very odd phenomenon.

It's the Ron Factor! :P

Regarding the posting issues, well, I did put up a thread in the Comics forum, but it got moved to Board Issues(which some people here don't read). Go figure. ::)

[BurntOfferings]

Poisoned in my opinion is hurt. So if Elan has 10 HD, a minimum 10 HP, and a 10 Con and take 2 con damage he drops to 0. Take another 2 con as secondary damage and he's at -10.
By "hurt" I meant "has taken hit point damage." I could've probably phrased it better. And in the example you gave, Elan, after taking two more points of Con damage, would still have 10 hit points. That was the whole point of the discussion between Techonce and me: Con damage can never drop a creature's hit points below 1 per hit die (but the creature is still dead if its Con drops to 0).

[BurntOfferings]

Oops... I guess the fighter in my campaign should still be alive then... :-/
I won't tell if you won't. ;)

So.... Do any of your players read the OotS message boards?

[BurntOfferings]

I don't know which is better, the "...and I was curious." line, or the fact that the shuriken(s?) made the same sound crashing through the wooden door as they did through the glass window - brilliant! :)
The shuriken made a "teeysh" sound when breaking through the glass window. They made a "crrsh" sound when breaking through the wooden door. "Crrsh" is perfectly functional and appropriate. "Teeysh," however, is pure genius. I've always wanted an onomatopoeia for the sound of breaking glass. Now I have one. Thanks Giant! ;D

[Devils_Advocate]

No, I meant spoilers. See first post of this page.
Yeah, sorry I missed that. I took rather a long time composing my previous post (as one might infer from its length) and so I missed that. I should have checked the thread again before I posted. Tsk.

Still, perhaps it's for the best, since otherwise I might not have mentioned the Remove button or the sealed predictions thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1109876475 ;start=540#540), which is probably the best place to make non-obvious predictions, since the Giant has said that he hates to see people guess what surprises he has in store (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq8). And so I plug it once again. (I even linked the last page (as of this posting) this time!)


I have noticed this in many storys. I call it "the fry effect" after Fry from Futuama. Male charecters who are idiots tend to get smarter the closer to getting their love This is a very odd phenomenon.
It seems odd to you that a woman would start dating a man after he becomes less idiotic? ??? Or did I misinterpret your meaning?

[rather off-topic]

It's called the Hawking Effect.

*Waits for someone to get the obscure reference*
Ooh! Ooh! I know!

In one episode, the crew uses the professor's "what if" machine to see how the world would be different in various hypothetical situations. Fry asks what it would be like if he were still living in the 20th 21st century. The machine shows an alternate reality in which Fry was never accidentally frozen (All of the following occurs within that scenario.) -- but apparently, the incident was somehow predestined, and disrupting it tears a hole in the fabric of space-time or something. When Fry meets Stephen Hawking later in the episode, he relates what he observed, calling the phenomenon a "Fry Hole" after its discoverer, himself. Still later, Hawking, relating the discovery to others, says "I call it a 'Hawking Hole'", thus blatantly taking credit away from Fry, since who's gonna believe that this thing was discovered by some random schmuck instead of a famous physicist?

Do I win a No-Prize? ;D
[/rather off-topic]


No, that's not quite it.

You see, it's all about the curly shoes with bells attached to them.

Elan, as you may well have noticed, and despite being a bard, owns no such curly shoes, with or without bells attached. Hence, not gay.

'S pretty simple, really.
Well, we can't really tell what type of shoes he's wearing, since he has stick-feet. Bells would probably be illustrated, though, if they were there.

So being gay precludes stealth? If you're a bard, at least? I can only assume that such footwear would impose a huge penalty to Move Silently checks.

Ah, wait, I just noticed that you only wrote of owning such shoes, not wearing them all the time. But then how do you know he doesn't?

[DeathQuaker]

"'Daphne!?'
'I never liked Geraldine.'"

...or how was it? It's been a while since I watched 'Some Like It Hot', but it sure is a classic. :D


Yes! Yes it is indeed. :) I wrote term paper about it even. :D

And I _do_ think Roy's name should be Daphne. I realize he won't be but... he'll always be Daphne in my heart... :) "Nobody's perfect!"



(I had to register just to get that cookie... ;))

Wow! Didn't realize that would be such an incentive. :D Well then, here for you, is a delicious, fresh from the virtual oven, gooey brown sugary chocolate chip cookie. Enjoy!

[Flak_Razorwill]

I liked somebody's "She-Roy". Nice Masters of the Universe reference there.

Yeah, it was kind of a spur of the moment thing. I like Regina myself, as my last post described.

[Tiran]

I have a question. How did roy know it was constitution poison? Is he a metagamer?

Of course he is. The characters break the fourth wall and metagame all the freaking time.

[Nightmarenny]

Yeah, sorry I missed that. I took rather a long time composing my previous post (as one might infer from its length) and so I missed that. I should have checked the thread again before I posted. Tsk.

Still, perhaps it's for the best, since otherwise I might not have mentioned the Remove button or the sealed predictions thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1109876475 ;start=540#540), which is probably the best place to make non-obvious predictions, since the Giant has said that he hates to see people guess what surprises he has in store (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq8). And so I plug it once again. (I even linked the last page (as of this posting) this time!)

It seems odd to you that a woman would start dating a man after he becomes less idiotic? ??? Or did I misinterpret your meaning?

You did.Its that a full adult who's intellect should have settled by then starts to grow at a childlike(really fast) pace the close he gets to getting a girl friend.





It's the Ron Factor! :P

Regarding the posting issues, well, I did put up a thread in the Comics forum, but it got moved to Board Issues(which some people here don't read). Go figure. ::)

Noooo the Ron factor is the odd ability of goofy side-kicks to constantly save the day through several odd duffus-ism.
;D


Oh and why does Roy even need a new name? He is still Roy. He hasn't changed.

[Swiftbow]

If one could undo its effects "merely" by killing and then raising the subject, they would actually be a lot easier to cure, albeit through extreme means (especially in 2nd Edition, in which I understand coming back from the dead was much more of an ordeal).


Not so much, really. Raise Dead was a 5th level cleric spell and Resurrection was a 7th level cleric spell. I don't think that's changed. If you were using some optional rules, you had to make a resurrection survival check based on your con, but those were pretty low numbers to pass. Oh, and stipulations: the mere Raise Dead didn't work on elves and would burn off one Con point to raisee. It would also incapacitate the casting cleric for the day. Resurrection worked on anything and had no side effects. The two spells also differed in how much time was allowed to pass before someone was brought back to life.

Actually, this belt would seem to work like the incarnation found in Baldur's Gate... cursed item that affects the wearer until Remove Curse is used. (Incidentally, Baldur's Gate uses 2nd ed rules)

[eof]

(Inner quote is by me.)



It's an impossible scenario (barring poetic licence of course). I only have the 3.0 books available, but I assume that it hasn't changed that shurikens only deal 1 damage and you always have 1 HP/level regardless of how low your CON is. Elan is currently alive, meaning his current CON must be above zero. Regardless of its value, he'll have at least one HP per level, meaning about 10 or more. Thus, he can't be at zero HP, since he was only hit twice for two HP. (Assuming the shuriken weren't magical, of course.)

Therefore, I present the following scenario: Roy mistook the poison to be a CON poison. It actually was either a DEX poison or a STR poison (STR is more likely, assuming Elan's DEX is reasonably high and in any case higher than his STR), or some poison with paralytic properties. While we know that the Shadowdancer also has access to lethal poison, both attackers have shown concern about innocent bystanders, so it is not too farfetched to assume that when attacking blindly he might use some non-lethal means to disable anyone hit rather than killing them outright.

If this is the case, imagine the look on Roy's face when he learns that Elan never was in danger of dying and that he didn't need to put on the girdle after all but could instead have fought with the mop as he intended!
If your Con reaches zero, you die. End of discussion.
Err... yes, and your point is what, exactly? I can't tell if you agree with me, which your words imply, or if you disagree, which your tone implies.

I'm saying that if the poison dealt CON damage...

... then Elan's CON can't have dropped to zero, because if it had, he'd be dead, which he isn't.

... then Elan's HP can't be zero (disabled) or less (dying), because regardless of CON score (including cases of reduced CON score due to CON damage) a character will have at least 1 HP per level. In other words, a CON poision can only kill a character by A) reducing the victim's CON score to zero or B) by reducing the victim's CON and, consequently, the victim's full HP so much that the victim succumbs to any injuries the victim has suffered. A CON poison cannot kill an unhurt victim except by method A--as long as the victim is unhurt and has a current CON score greater than zero, the victim will be alive and at at least 1 HP per level, meaning not disabled and not dying.

Assume that Elan's level is 10 or more, and that he was unhurt before he was poisoned. This means that Elan must always have (at least) 10 HP when at full HP, regardless of his CON score. Since he's taken 2 damage from the shuriken, he'd be at 8 HP (or more) regardless of how low his current, non-zero, CON score is.

Thus, if it was a CON poison, Elan would now either be dead from having his CON drop to zero, which he isn't, or alive and not disabled or dying (but still in danger of taking secondary CON damage from the poison one minute later, which likely would bring his CON to zero and kill him) and physically quite capable of getting to Durkon on his own.

I don't think I can explain this any clearer, sorry. The trickiest ability to handle changes in, especially reductions, is IMO CON, because of the min 1 HP per level rule. INT doesn't cause any retroactive changes (additional/reduced skill points for previously gained levels or additional/reduced number of languages known), and STR, DEX, WIS and CHA all pretty much have uses based on current score. CON is the exception, and it shows. I require my players to write down all HP rolls they've made in order to apply this rule correctly. If you don't do that and some character's CON drops (significantly) below 10, you can either A) make educated guesses, B) ignore the min 1 HP per level rule or C) consider yourself screwed.

Anyway... I suggest that the poison actually is a STR poison, a DEX poison or a paralytic poison, and that Roy failed to recognize the poison, instead mistaking it for a CON poison. All of those three options are more consistent with the scenario as it is played out (Elan is now at STR 0, DEX 0 or paralysed), and in that case, Elan is in no danger of dying from any secondary poison damage, and in that case, there really was no extreme need for Roy to don the girdle... and in that case, his reaction later as he realizes this might be hilarious.

[Dark]

Consider the possibility that the two shuriken had different poisons. Say, one DEX to knock him out, and one CON to kill him. That would be consistent with the comic. And it's what I would do :-)

[Rawhide]

There is nothing to say that the CON poison also didn't have a secondary effect, such as paralysis.

[Lasombra]

or sleep. he looks incredibly fatigued.

and of course hes suffered damage. see the cuts on his face? shuriken are sharp....


hehehe roy has boobies ;D

[eof]

Consider the possibility that the two shuriken had different poisons. Say, one DEX to knock him out, and one CON to kill him. That would be consistent with the comic. And it's what I would do :-)
What would you put on the third shuriken then--the one that missed? ;)

The attacker has no idea which shuriken will hit. If any. Intent to get multiple effects by using different poisons are therefore of limited use.

And why in the world would you use different poisons? You'd either want to disable the target, possibly to Coup de Grace it later, or kill it essentially outright, rarely both. Using different poisons limit their efficiency. Using multiple instances of CON poison means potentially more CON damage, meaning improved chance to kill the target, while one weapon with CON poison might not be enough. Ditto for DEX poison (although it will disable the target rather than kill it). You'd most likely only get a target who is still alive and still mobile, albeit with some CON and DEX damage. Also, if either poison is enough to get the job done, then the other is wasted--if the target dies from CON damage, DEX damage is irrelevant, and vice versa (assuming opportunity for Coup de Grave), and the question of why you'd use multiple poisons remains.

If you wanted multiple effects, you'd either apply several poisons to the same weapon, or use some superpoison with multiple effects (see below). There's still the question of why you'd do that though, since one poison is likely to be enough to get the job done.


There is nothing to say that the CON poison also didn't have a secondary effect, such as paralysis.
True, except that the (3.0) DMG does not list any such poison. This does of course not mean that they don't exist, but it makes it less likely. And what I said above applies here as well--you either want to kill your target or you want to disable it. Why would you want to do both? You might be able to make a minor argument that "well, the paralysed victim can't escape and get help from a cleric while the CON poison finishes it off" but a paralytic poison combined with a Coup de Grace would accomplishes the same thing.

And in any case, what I said earlier still applies: both assassins seemed concerned about innocent bystanders. It is of course possible that they now chose to accept collateral damage, but throwing CON damage shurikens blindly, without knowing what they'll hit--actually, without definite knowledge that the "king" even might be hit--certainly flies in the face of that.

I stand by my suggestion that it actually is a STR or DEX poison. It works, seems (to me) most simple and probable given what we know, it doesn't risk killing innocent bystanders, and the look on Roy's face later will be priceless. That, or the Giant ignores the min 1 HP per level rule, or doesn't care because it doesn't make a good story. Either way...