Vargouille's kiss vs. immunity from disease?

[Frostthehero]

The vargouille's kiss ability states:

A vargouille can kiss a paralyzed target with a successful melee touch attack. An affected opponent must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or begin a terrible transformation that turns the creature into a vargouille within 24 hours (and often much sooner; roll 1d6 separately for each phase of the transformation).

First, over a period of 1d6 hours, all the victim’s hair falls out. Within another 1d6 hours thereafter, the ears grow into leathery wings, tentacles sprout on the chin and scalp, and the teeth become long, pointed fangs. During the next 1d6 hours, the victim takes Intelligence drain and Charisma drain equal to 1 point per hour (to a minimum of 3). The transformation is complete 1d6 hours later, when the head breaks free of the body (which promptly dies) and becomes a vargouille. This transformation is interrupted by sunlight, and even a daylight spell can delay death, but to reverse the transformation requires remove disease. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +4 racial bonus.

Emphasis mine.

The radiant servant's divine health ability states:

A radiant servant of Pelor who is at least 2nd level is immune to all diseases, including magical diseases such as mummy rot and lycanthropy.
Again, emphasis mine. There's no explicit mention of vargouille's kiss giving the target a named disease, and the diseases mentioned in divine health are named (as are all others on the disease table), so I'm leaning towards disease immunity not working here, but maybe there's some RAW ruling elsewhere that contradicts me.

Thoughts?

[Inevitability]

It's not a disease; just cured by remove disease. It might be counterintuitive, but it's very straightforward by RAW.

Green Slime specifically gets killed by Remove Disease spells too, but it's obviously not an illness.

[Chronos]

Then again, lycanthropy also isn't explicitly described as a disease (just that it spreads like one), but Divine Health explicitly protects against it. So I'd say there's room for an argument that, if Divine Health protects against one thing that isn't explicitly a disease but is similar to one, it might also protect against another such affliction.

(oh, and you didn't need to go to a non-core prestige class for an example of the ability: The baseline Paladin has it, too.)

I don't think the green slime case is directly relevant, because with mummy rot or vargouille transformation, you cast the Remove Disease on the victim, whereas with green slime, you cast it on the ooze itself.

[Darg]

Remove Disease cures diseases and kills parasites (which the spell specifically calls the green slime). It's obvious the vargouille's kiss is a disease because it says it can be removed by Remove Disease. Going too microscopic just causes a lot of rules dysfunction that isn't meant to be there. A vargouille's poison ability isn't classified as a poison in the description and as an ability's name does not determine its effect you shouldn't assume it's a poison if you focus too much at the micro level of determination. That said, it's a poison. If it looks like poison, acts like poison, it's poison.

[OracleofWuffing]

That said, it's a poison. If it looks like poison, acts like poison, it's poison.

Unless it's a Ravage. In which case, it is definitely a poison. :smallwink:

[SirNibbles]

Then again, lycanthropy also isn't explicitly described as a disease (just that it spreads like one), but Divine Health explicitly protects against it. So I'd say there's room for an argument that, if Divine Health protects against one thing that isn't explicitly a disease but is similar to one, it might also protect against another such affliction.

(oh, and you didn't need to go to a non-core prestige class for an example of the ability: The baseline Paladin has it, too.)

I don't think the green slime case is directly relevant, because with mummy rot or vargouille transformation, you cast the Remove Disease on the victim, whereas with green slime, you cast it on the ooze itself.




A lycanthrope in animal form fights like the animal it resembles, although its bite attack carries the terrible disease of lycanthropy.


Lost Empires of Faerûn, page 178



Remove Disease cures diseases and kills parasites (which the spell specifically calls the green slime). It's obvious the vargouille's kiss is a disease because it says it can be removed by Remove Disease. Going too microscopic just causes a lot of rules dysfunction that isn't meant to be there. A vargouille's poison ability isn't classified as a poison in the description and as an ability's name does not determine its effect you shouldn't assume it's a poison if you focus too much at the micro level of determination. That said, it's a poison. If it looks like poison, acts like poison, it's poison.

There are plenty of things that aren't disease that are cured by Remove Disease, simply because the effect says so. For example:
Implant (Crystalline Cat ability) - Dragon Magazine #304, page 60
Infestation of Maggots (Spell) - Spell Compendium, page 123

There are more but I can't be bothered to find every example- I saw a ton when I was looking for diseases for the index (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656894-Disease-An-Index-and-Analysis).

[Darg]

A lycanthrope in animal form fights like the animal it resembles, although its bite attack carries the terrible disease of lycanthropy.


Lost Empires of Faerûn, page 178




There are plenty of things that aren't disease that are cured by Remove Disease, simply because the effect says so. For example:
Implant (Crystalline Cat ability) - Dragon Magazine #304, page 60
Infestation of Maggots (Spell) - Spell Compendium, page 123

There are more but I can't be bothered to find every example- I saw a ton when I was looking for diseases for the index (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656894-Disease-An-Index-and-Analysis).

Parasitic infections are considered to be diseases by the medical community. Remove disease kills parasites. Heal cures the diseased condition. It fits the theme here.

[Crake]

A lycanthrope in animal form fights like the animal it resembles, although its bite attack carries the terrible disease of lycanthropy.


Lost Empires of Faerûn, page 178




There are plenty of things that aren't disease that are cured by Remove Disease, simply because the effect says so. For example:
Implant (Crystalline Cat ability) - Dragon Magazine #304, page 60
Infestation of Maggots (Spell) - Spell Compendium, page 123

There are more but I can't be bothered to find every example- I saw a ton when I was looking for diseases for the index (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656894-Disease-An-Index-and-Analysis).

Slaadi implant eggs as well, and are in the core rules. The eggs arent called out as a disease. Lycanthropy however, IS described as a magical disease/curse.

Unless its actually called a disease, it doesnt protect you.