Question about persist spell and druid.

[Zhepna]

Hi,

we start a new game and the DM use a homebrew system with a LOT of drawbacks but it allows the players to use all the metamagic for free.

I play druid based around snow and I try to utilize persist.

We start lvl 4.

1) If I cast Creeping Cold on an opponent, can I apply ocular spell to change to range and persist it? If it’s not possible to persist it, can I extend it?

2) Is it possible to buff 2 allies by casting Resist Energy on an ally, apply ocular spell to change the range, persist and repeat, for the spell to remain 24 hours and be cast on another ally the next turn?

Ideally, I would like to be a buffer for the group but I have a hard time finding an efficient way to do it. Maybe by adding Repeat Spell to a spell that already has. Twin Spell.

I wanted to cast Bite of the Wererat on allies but with the personal range, it's not possible.

3) Elation seems like a good spell to persist. As a druid, since it's a sanctified spell I think I can cast it even if the druid is not mentioned in the class that have access to the spell. If I cast if, is it in a second level spell slot or a third lvl spell slot?

Do you have suggestions?

Thanks in advance and have a nice day.

[Venger]

1) Ocular spell is a popular way to change the range of a spell to fixed to make it eligible for persisting. Yes.

2) Ocular spell is a metamagic feat, so for a prepared caster like a druid, you would prepare an ocular, persistent resist energy (I assume you have metamagic reducers and/or access to a level 10 slot for this) and then cast it later.

You cannot cast a normal version of resist energy with nothing on it as a 2nd and then alter it to make it ocular and/or persistent.

In any event, you cannot use these metamagic feats to copy a spell and have it around to cast later. Does this answer your question? I have the suspicion I don't 100% understand what you're asking here.

Re: bite of the wererat, while your reading is correct and it is not normally a valid target for ocular or persistent spell, there is one way know of to manipulate personal spells in such a way. Since you're using a heavily homebrewed system, this may be useful to you:

The spellguard of silverymoon prestige class's spellguard ability allows you to alter personal spells that boost ac, saves, or hp into touch spells, which would allow you to persist it. It's a little annoying to qualify for, esp as a druid, but given that your game sounds high power and has a lot of homebrew it may be able to help you esp if the fluff requirement of serving as a border guard 20% of your time is waived or replaced with something conducive to normal gameplay.

Let us know if there's anything else you need.

EDIT: (to address the 3rd question you added in)

3) All nonevil prepared casters have access to sanctified spells.


Spellcasters prepare sanctified spells just as they do
regular spells, and casters who do not prepare spells
(including sorcerers and bards) cannot make use of
them except from a scroll. Evil characters cannot cast
sanctified spells, including ones cast from magic
items.

As per its spell level, since they forgot to list one for druid, there is no canonical answer to this so you'll just have to ask your gm and they'll essentially flip a coin. It's kind of a weak spell, which is an argument for a 2, but you're already a druid which has one of the best spell lists in the game, so that's an argument for a 3. Either way if you're persisting it, it isn't really going to matter all that much.

[Zhepna]

In any event, you cannot use these metamagic feats to copy a spell and have it around to cast later. Does this answer your question? I have the suspicion I don't 100% understand what you're asking here.


Thanks a lot for the information!

For the metamagic, I was just trying to explore which spells or which metamagic feats could allow me to be a good buffer. Since it's not usually to be able to stacks a lot of metamagic for free, it open new possibilities I could not find in guides.

[Venger]

You're welcome.

Since it sounds like your primary access is the druid list, I strongly recommend eggynack's handbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook&highlight=eggynack+druid) if you haven't already read it, which will go into great detail about spells and has them helpfully sorted by archetype so you can zero in on buffs specifically for persistomancy. Due to the parameters of your game, you may find low-level eligible spells that are more helpful than normal.

[Paragon]

The spellguard of silverymoon prestige class's spellguard ability allows you to alter personal spells that boost ac, saves, or hp into touch spells, which would allow you to persist it.

@OP you can look in my signature to find a comprehensive list of all spells that are persistable out-of-the-box as well as why the "touch = fixed range" argument is shaky at best to justify persisting touch spells.
This by no way means you shouldn't try to work it out with your DM as he is opened to homebrew but don't try to angle it from "RAW says I can" (just my 2 cents)



EDIT: (to address the 3rd question you added in)

3) All nonevil prepared casters have access to sanctified spells.

As per its spell level, since they forgot to list one for druid, there is no canonical answer to this so you'll just have to ask your gm and they'll essentially flip a coin. It's kind of a weak spell, which is an argument for a 2, but you're already a druid which has one of the best spell lists in the game, so that's an argument for a 3. Either way if you're persisting it, it isn't really going to matter all that much.
I was so sure you had to be good to cast sanctified spells. Thanks for the quote ! (IIRC, CoV has something about it, is it p52 or smtg ?)

[Darg]

why the "touch = fixed range" argument is shaky at best

It says it doesn't work with spells that are discharged and the PHB uses that exact word to describe what touch spells do under the Duration header. In case you wanted to add that to the list.

[Zhepna]

@OP you can look in my signature to find a comprehensive list of all spells that are persistable out-of-the-box

Wow this list is impressive! Thanks a lot for your time to produce it!

[Chronos]

Elation isn't a sanctified spell. Sanctified is its own spell list (which is accessible to non-evil prepared casters). Elation's level is "Bard 2, Cleric 2, Emissary of Barachiel 2, Joy 2, Sorcerer/Wizard 3". Compare to, say, Luminous Armor, whose level is "Sanctified 2". A druid can cast Luminous Armor, as a second-level spell. Absent some prestige class or other trick for gaining access to spells from other lists, however, she cannot cast Elation.

[Paragon]

Wow this list is impressive! Thanks a lot for your time to produce it!

My pleasure, you're exactly the use case scenario I had in mind while drafting it.
Hint : use Ctrl+F "Sor/Wiz 2" after having expanded the spoilers to look for 2nd level spells from the Sorcerer and Wizard list for instance.

Let me know what could be done to better it