Two paladins in a party

[Chronos]

Our group is going to be switching DMs for a bit, and so the former DM is contemplating which character he'll bring in. His top choice is a paladin of (mostly) devotion, but we already have a paladin of devotion in the party (my character). Personality-wise, there's no problem: They're quite distinct, and I'm actually a bit curious to see how they interact. But how well (or poorly) will it work mechanically?

Full details: My paladin is straight by-the-books, and is mostly built to be a big dumb pile of hit points. The new paladin is mostly devotion, except that one of her Channel Divinities is houseruled to be the Redemption bonus to Persuasion, rather than the Devotion Turn Undead. She's certainly less tough than mine, but probably more charismatic. The (most likely; others might potentially switch as well) other party members are a war cleric, a lore bard, a divination wizard, and an arcane trickster rogue. We'll be starting the session at 12th level, and will probably level slowly at this point. The glowing-sword Devotion channel divinity is houseruled to be a bonus action. Neither paladin has any interest in changing oaths. The other choice the former DM is considering is a tome/fey warlock.

[kazaryu]

Our group is going to be switching DMs for a bit, and so the former DM is contemplating which character he'll bring in. His top choice is a paladin of (mostly) devotion, but we already have a paladin of devotion in the party (my character). Personality-wise, there's no problem: They're quite distinct, and I'm actually a bit curious to see how they interact. But how well (or poorly) will it work mechanically?

Full details: My paladin is straight by-the-books, and is mostly built to be a big dumb pile of hit points. The new paladin is mostly devotion, except that one of her Channel Divinities is houseruled to be the Redemption bonus to Persuasion, rather than the Devotion Turn Undead. She's certainly less tough than mine, but probably more charismatic. The (most likely; others might potentially switch as well) other party members are a war cleric, a lore bard, a divination wizard, and an arcane trickster rogue. We'll be starting the session at 12th level, and will probably level slowly at this point. The glowing-sword Devotion channel divinity is houseruled to be a bonus action. Neither paladin has any interest in changing oaths. The other choice the former DM is considering is a tome/fey warlock.

i mean there's nothing anti synergistic about having 2 paladins in the party. paladin is a strong, independent class that don't need no support. the only concern might be that if you're in a high OP campaign, doubling down on the 'front line beefy boy' role could mean there's a combat role that one of those characters could be filling which would have a larger overall on party preparedness...but thats super table specific so noone here can really answer that question without a lot of context.

[KorvinStarmast]

If I may offer a suggestion to your DM-who-is-gonna-play, Tome/Fey warlock is a nice package and it is fun. :smallsmile:
Not sure what rituals will be in their book, but I will recommend that they negotiate with the DM to have a few more than the original two in it if you are all starting at level 12.

[kazaryu]

If I may offer a suggestion to your DM-who-is-gonna-play, Tome/Fey warlock is a nice package and it is fun. :smallsmile:
Not sure what rituals will be in their book, but I will recommend that they negotiate with the DM to have a few more than the original two in it if you are all starting at level 12.

tome lock doesn't inherently have rituals....thats an invocation. the tome lock just just them 2...3? cantrips off of any spell list. i say 'just'...i don't mean to imply that its a bad feature...anyway. yeah.

[J-H]

More paladin aura means you can spread out more while retaining the save bonuses. I fail to see the downside.

Might try to pick up a Returning melee weapon so one paladin can stay with the ranged squishies to give the squishies good saves, too.

[diplomancer]

one of the Paladins could invest more in mobility. Maybe get Mounted Combatant feat (a generally alright feat for a Paladin anyway), maybe be of a small race to bring their steeds anywhere. This way you could avoid doubling up on the Aura. Tougher Paladin stays in the frontlines, more charismatic Paladin skirmishes and goes back to the squishies line.

[KorvinStarmast]

tome lock doesn't inherently have rituals....thats an invocation. the tome lock just just them 2...3? cantrips off of any spell list. i say 'just'...i don't mean to imply that its a bad feature...anyway. yeah. It's a good feature if you lean into it, but yes, it does cost an invocation. Good point.

[Chronos]

What, you mean that there are tomelocks who DON'T take Book of Ancient Secrets?

Races are all locked in, so medium-sized mounts aren't an option. I do have Mounted Combat, though, for use with my Holy Cow (my mount is a celestial ox). I don't know what her mount is.

And this guy has played both characters before, and knows that he'll have fun with either.

All that said, the "stay back to protect the squishies" thing might have some appeal, given that this particular character happens to be fanatically devoted to the bard. And the level of wealth we have is certainly enough to justify the new character getting a returning throwing weapon... I'll mention that to him.

[Chronos]

Hm... Looking it up, I can't find returning weapons anywhere in this edition. Were they removed?

And oddly, thrown weapons work with Improved Divine Smite, but not regular Divine Smite. Though that may be houseruleable.

[Unoriginal]

Hm... Looking it up, I can't find returning weapons anywhere in this edition. Were they removed?

And oddly, thrown weapons work with Improved Divine Smite, but not regular Divine Smite. Though that may be houseruleable.

There is the Dwarven Thrower, and an infusion Artificiers can apply to a weapon.

[J-H]

There are tables where the DM uses only the magic weapons published 9 years ago in the DMG plus the few dribs and drabs in the setting books?

Easy enough for the DM to make a Returning X.

(Tasha's did add more items, but most of them contribute to spellcaster supremacy; I rarely use Tasha's items)

[kazaryu]

It's a good feature if you lean into it, but yes, it does cost an invocation. Good point.

oh i don't disagree that its a good feature. i was just pointing out that 'tomelock' doesn't mean they must have it. my assumption was more that you'd mixed up the tome pact boon with book of ancient secrets. and so were figuring that a tomelock was guaranteed to have the ritual casting.

[rel]

There are tables where the DM uses only the magic weapons published 9 years ago in the DMG plus the few dribs and drabs in the setting books?


Not everyone plays like you do friend.
I don't use the optional feat or multiclass rules, nor do I use ANY content (aside from homebrew which is extensive and prevalent) released after 2014.

[Derges]

There are tables where the DM uses only the magic weapons published 9 years ago in the DMG plus the few dribs and drabs in the setting books?

Is there an expanded magic item table list somewhere so I can roll as per the DMG but with more items included?

I tend to hit the random button on a certain 5th edition web tool but I'm never sure if it is playing by the correct rules.

[Chronos]

We're certainly not entirely restricted to the magic items in the books (most of us now have items customized to our characters, given us as a reward by a Fey Queen), but it does make it a bit easier if you can show the DM an item in the book. And I find it a bit odd that something as basic as Returning would be omitted: The weapon that returns to your hand after being thrown is sort of a staple of fantasy.

Anyway, Old DM is now consulting with New DM on what he'll allow.

[kazaryu]

We're certainly not entirely restricted to the magic items in the books (most of us now have items customized to our characters, given us as a reward by a Fey Queen), but it does make it a bit easier if you can show the DM an item in the book. And I find it a bit odd that something as basic as Returning would be omitted: The weapon that returns to your hand after being thrown is sort of a staple of fantasy.

Anyway, Old DM is now consulting with New DM on what he'll allow.

thrown weapons in general have very little support as a primary mode of combat in 5e. or at least they did until the recent tasha's release?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

This seems like an opportunity for one of the palys (sounds like yours) to not worry so much about Cha. By 12th your buddy can have his maxed for the best Aura benefit and you can worry more about combat. This would be table dependent, but if you're ever in 5' hallways one of the 2 of you could look at PAM and fighting from the 2nd row.

[tKUUNK]

Two pallies? yeah okay that sounds like a blast! I agree about having wider aura coverage....it is kind of a shame that you're both Devotion (so you don't have variety on subclass-granted auras. Like say, the Oath of Ancients aura against magic. On the other hand "nobody in our party gets charmed, ever, period." is fine.

[Chronos]

Yeah, if it were Devotion and Ancients, I wouldn't even bother asking. "Don't bother trying to use mind magic on us. And don't bother trying to damage us with spells, either. Y'know, in fact, probably don't bother with anything that has a saving throw, either. Trying to attack through those full-plate clad folks in front? Yeah, that's probably your best bet.".