Fighter Boost: Are these Extra Features any good?

[Nagog]

I've been writing up a few fun narrative things to add to one of my player's base Fighter class, as they've been really hurting about the Caster/Martial disparity in-game (much of her capacity is vastly outshined by our Crowd Control Sorcerer), and considering making these standard for my games if they work.

Beginning at 2nd level, you may make a Skill Check as a Bonus Action instead of an Action.
You may use this feature in combat to a variety of effects. For example, an Intimidation check contested against a target's Wisdom Saving Throw may induce the Fear effect on the target until the start of your next turn, or a Deception Check against a target's Insight Check to feint and grant you advantage on attack rolls against that target until the end of your turn. These checks may also be used for other combat skill checks, such as an Investigation check to discern an Illusion, or an Athletics check to initiate or escape a Grapple.

Beginning at 9th level, your keen awareness and sharp reflexes allow you to adapt and react to the flow of combat exceptionally well. Beginning at 9th level, you may use 2 reactions each round, instead of one. You gain another reaction at 16th level, for a total of 3 reactions.

[Skrum]

Little project I was working on -
Skill Tricks (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SPna3g6JrJITQELLTcJSlKIHISmivwNxf_lsiC2eIJ8/edit?usp=sharing)

Channeling 3.5's skill trick system, it gives more defined uses of skills.

Going also with this, I'd favor giving fighters expertise at 2nd and 7th (and take away bards' expertise, but that's another conversation)

I like the reaction ability too, I've considered that kind of thing before.

But, if the sorcerer is really outshining the fighter to that degree, my guess is more drastic measures are needed. Several people have given underperforming classes two subclasses, and say it works well (fighter and rogue are the two classes I see this get used for the most). A lot of other people think battle master should be part of the base fighter package, that's another similar option (give BM, or if she is BM, let her pick another subclass to go on top).

[Nagog]

Little project I was working on -
Skill Tricks (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SPna3g6JrJITQELLTcJSlKIHISmivwNxf_lsiC2eIJ8/edit?usp=sharing)

Channeling 3.5's skill trick system, it gives more defined uses of skills.

Going also with this, I'd favor giving fighters expertise at 2nd and 7th (and take away bards' expertise, but that's another conversation)



This list of abilities is interesting, and I like quite a few of them, but I think the requirement of having Expertise as well as competing skill checks feels redundant. Imo, allowing anybody to attempt these (and adding the associated skill checks to the ones that don't have one) gives combat as a whole a lot more dimension. So while anybody can attempt these tricks, those without investment into these skills likely won't succeed unless they're lucky.

Though with how many are conditional but have no action economy associated with them, (such as the Athletics and Knowledge ones), adding in some kind of action economy would dissuade players from gambling on them at every opportunity.




I like the reaction ability too, I've considered that kind of thing before.

But, if the sorcerer is really outshining the fighter to that degree, my guess is more drastic measures are needed. Several people have given underperforming classes two subclasses, and say it works well (fighter and rogue are the two classes I see this get used for the most). A lot of other people think battle master should be part of the base fighter package, that's another similar option (give BM, or if she is BM, let her pick another subclass to go on top).

I agree on the Battle Master front, but I'm not certain a second subclass would quite do it. Much of the discontent seems to be coming from the fact that they don't have a ton to do in combat (what the Fighter is supposed to be best at) beyond the Attack Action and occasionally an AoO. Things like Grappling and Hidden Enemies (which I've used to challenge the Casters who need line of sight) taking an action to resolve only worsens the issue.

[Lokishade]

A RAW way to buff your martials is to Grapple.

People think that forgoing an attack to not do any damage is a big waste of time. I assure you you can use it to devastating effects, especially on humanoids.

While the Battlemaster has Disarming Strike, did you know that there is a Disarm move? (DMG p. 271) The DMG suggests you use a weapon attack to knock whatever you opponents are holding in their hands instead of doing damage. It's a contested roll, just like a Grapple, but you can do it with a weapon, meaning you don't need proficiency in Athletics or even good strength. If you have a free hand, you can then immediately pick up the enemy's weapon as a free item interaction.

What if you want to prevent your enemy from running away? Would that make this... crowd control? Think about it, if a horse stops next to you, it may never be able to go away. Will the enemy cavalier try and kill you to free himself? You? The beefy fully plated Fighter? Or will he desperately dismount to get to the squishies who sling the fireballs? And if he does so, do you get to mount the trained warhorse as a move action and a successful Animal Handling check? What's preventing you, at this point?

With Tavern Brawler, you can make a nasty Grapple Rogue. Use an improvised Finesse weapon, like a Dart in melee, so you don't sacrifice your Sneak Attack, then use your bonus action to immobilize your target by not dumping your Strength completely and by taking Expertise in Athletics. Or take the Wizard's Component Pouch or Spell Focus to prevent spellcasting. What is the puny Wizard gonna do? You have +4 or +5 to the roll at level 1 while he has +2 at most. Even the beefy two-handed swordsman will learn to fear you. With a mere 12 in strength, you're as strong in Grapple as a 16 strength, proficient dude. And unlike the Fighter, you get to do both damage and Grapple.

With a free hand, you can do almost anything a Battlemaster does, minus the damage. With two attacks, you can Shove Prone, and then Grapple to prevent your target from moving. That target then has disadvantage on all attacks it takes and every melee PC has advantage on it. Or it takes a whole action to maybe free itself and limp away at half speed. The fun part is that it is always a contested roll. Even if you roll low, your opponent may roll even lower. Try and find a level 1 spell that does that.

There's also forced movement. If your DM doesn't always make you fight in a white room or an open plain, you can have fun with the hazards. Especially with a Rogue on the second turn (double dash) Do you think Monks are boring? They get extra movement and a BA dash, too. And whenever you succeed at a Stunning Strike, you automatically succeed any subsequent grapples. That's right, Stunned means you automatically fail ability checks and not saving throws. And resisting a Grapple is an ability check. Also, at level 5, you have a minimum of 3 attacks, meaning you can stun, grapple and disarm in a single round.

There's a reason martials dominate the early game. They may fall off brutally at level 10, but most campaigns end around that time anyway.

[Nagog]

There's a reason martials dominate the early game. They may fall off brutally at level 10, but most campaigns end around that time anyway.

I agree with most of this (in fact most of these are the kinds of things the Bonus Action Skill Check are meant to incentivize), this last bit is where I disagree. Very early game is a real tossup between martials and casters, as both are very limited on resources, so it comes down to how efficient each is with those resources. While Casters have a steady power scaling, Martials typically have "tiers" laid out similarly to the 4 Tiers of play. Extra Attack typically doubles a Martial's capabilities (except for Rangers, who have far too many "once per round/turn" buffs), but at the same time that Martials get that Casters hit 3rd level spells, and it only gets further and further in disparity from there on. Granting martials these kinds of effects for free each round (as well as expanding them) gives them long-term combat utility that doesn't sacrifice their primary contributions, and can even be expanded upon with their Attack Action (such as disarming an enemy, then using the Attack action to destroy their weapon or toss it to an ally who is further away).

The reactions are in the mix because I think it would be fun, as well as giving them a more fluid and active presence on the battlefield.

[Skrum]

This list of abilities is interesting, and I like quite a few of them, but I think the requirement of having Expertise as well as competing skill checks feels redundant. Imo, allowing anybody to attempt these (and adding the associated skill checks to the ones that don't have one) gives combat as a whole a lot more dimension. So while anybody can attempt these tricks, those without investment into these skills likely won't succeed unless they're lucky.

Totally valid, and just having these be available is certainly a way to run with em. However, if your overall goal is a do a little something for "mundane" classes, keeping these away from casters seems like a good goal. For that reason I slightly favor keeping them gated behind expertise and giving fighters expertise.




Though with how many are conditional but have no action economy associated with them, (such as the Athletics and Knowledge ones), adding in some kind of action economy would dissuade players from gambling on them at every opportunity.


I personally don't love every single ability being limited to uses per day. It's fine-ish for spells, which presumably require "spell energy," but for mundane/martial powers, I find it to be extremely artificial. My aim with these powers is to make them useful but situational, and the situational use is what stops people from spamming them.

Obviously, that's just my personal preference xD. Your game, your rules.

[Nagog]

Totally valid, and just having these be available is certainly a way to run with em. However, if your overall goal is a do a little something for "mundane" classes, keeping these away from casters seems like a good goal. For that reason I slightly favor keeping them gated behind expertise and giving fighters expertise.


This is an excellent point, and there are a few that could become really powerful on a Caster (the Knowledge ones in particular), but I think making most of these an Action to do and giving Martials the capacity to do them quicker (Typically as a Bonus Action) would prevent most casters from bothering with it. Particularly now that Expertise is becoming relatively common (3 classes and 2 feats grant it), using that as a bar may not have the desired effect. Making these an action unless you have the levels (and therefore sacrificing Full Caster spell progression) to get it quicker feels like a more effective barrier to repeated use.




I personally don't love every single ability being limited to uses per day. It's fine-ish for spells, which presumably require "spell energy," but for mundane/martial powers, I find it to be extremely artificial. My aim with these powers is to make them useful but situational, and the situational use is what stops people from spamming them.

Obviously, that's just my personal preference xD. Your game, your rules.

Agreed: The primary draw imo for martial classes is longevity and not being resource based. Having these be free to use (in terms of resources) but requiring some sort of Action (Bonus or full Action) keeps them accessible all the time but prevents them from being abused.