SoleAr
2023-08-15, 06:12 AM
So, some thoughts and small analysis of POW.
First - English is a foreign language for me. Sorry about language mistakes, feel free to correct me.
I'm playing D&D/Pathfinder for about 20 years as a player and DM.
Tome of Battle and its spiritual successor, Path of War, always were one of my favorite part of game options.
In our games, we often playing with 1-2 players and DM. Moreover, because DM has very little time for preparing campaign, we often use standard Adventure Paths.
That is why our PCs need a rather high level of optimization.
Through these years I've got a lot of experience playing martial characters using POW.
So I'd like to share some of my thoughts with you. Of course, everything is just my humble opinion and I don't pretend to be a final arbiter)
End of introduction)
Let's discuss POW features in complex.
Attention! I will talk only about PFSRD material. Yes, I know about Medic, Radiant Down, Chimera Soul, etc. But I don’t have lot of real game experience with all those new things, so may be next time…
Every class has 3 base features:
Method of recovery
Disciplines/Maneuvers
Class features
I. Method of recovery is an engine in your battle machine. There are 3 ways POW recovery works:
1. Move action.
Zealot only. It's the best way. No conflicts with your maneuvers, excellent buff that stacks with everything right from level 1.
2. Swift action.
Harbinger, Dread, Warlord, Mirmidon, Pathwalker. Much worse compare to first way. It conflict with buffs, counters, styles. But much, much better than...
3. Full Round Action.
Or “Wrong way”. You spend whole round doing nothing. Yes, in the best case (warder) you make "zone of nill', blah blah blah. You are doing nothing. You are waiting for your enemy to be a good boy and let you make your AOO. And poor stalkers don’t even has it…
II. Disciplines is a carcass of your machine.
You have an access to 3 - 6 disciplines in one class and you will have about 20 maneuvers at lv20 maximum. If we compare number of maneuvers with number of powers for psionic classes, you are PsiWar. Not even Psion)
So you should be careful when you making choices.
There is no equality in disciplines. Some of them are good, some of them situational, some of them bad.
What is good? If discipline has something good on every/almost every level. There can be disciplines that have good or even outstanding maneuvers, but ok/not good/bad/wtf? all other maneuvers.
Good;
1) Riven Hourglass. Probably the best discipline in POW. No bild can ignore it. It’s main power lies in possibility of additional actions. Act in surprise round, all day haste, additional move, STANDARD and full round actions. On level 15 Zealot can have THREE standard actions every round. How’s that Ilon Mask, Wizard?
2) Elemental Flux. Best Stances in POW, very powerful strikes (including AOE!), very good boosts.
3) Shattered Mirror. Something There, something here, but something VERY useful on mostly every level.
4) Sleeping Goddess. Good strikes, good stances, lot of utility, and wonderful free melee weapons!
Average:
5) Scarlet Throne. Very good strikes. Most powerful standard action strike in POW (Descending Sunset Strike). One super counter (Sanguine Perseverance). Everything else is so-so. Awful stances. Really.
6) Silver Crane. Very good stances. This discipline is mostly about healing, but it's much, much better to kill or incapacitate enemy then try to mitigate damage, isn't it?
7) Black Seraph. Eeeevil power! Actually, no. Now everyone can use it and not be afraid for his eternal soul. It has good strikes (especially AOE (no resistance)), one good stance, buff and counters.
8) Eternal Guardian. It’s intended to be all about battlefield control, and someway it is. Not always.
9) Mithral Current. As someone on forum said “it is how veeaboo thinks iyjjutsu samurai should act”. But main point of iyjjutsu is not who’s put his sword out first. It’s who’s kill his enemy first. Mithrall Current strikes does not kill enemies. However, it has very good counters.
10) Solar Wind. For shooters only, but something interesting starting only from level 3. Best lv8 stance for machine gunner archers.
11) Steel Serpent. The only way poison could work in Pathfinder. Some good strikes, buffs and stances.
12) Trashing Dragon. For 2WF only. Good start, bad end. It’s ok on early level and terrible on high.
13) Primal Fury. As a whole it’s not good. But it has very good strikes, buffs and stances for very specific builds.
14) Veiled Moon. Very useful low level maneuvers, very weak high level.
15) Broken Blade. It has best first level strike (Flurry Strike). And best 3 to 7 level strike (). One very good buff. One very specific stance. Everything other is bad.
Bad:
16) Iron Tortoise. I can understand the point of it: to protect and to serve, call fire on yourself, be a Captain America. But what do we have? Poor strikes, bad stances. You hit an enemy, and he will have some troubles hitting others then you. Sad story. I think, if hit you someone, he should die or lose any interest for combat at least.
17) Golden Lion. Intentions of creation this discipline is also clear – teamwork, leadership, together to victory. However, in my experience, there is no such a thing as «teamwork» in RPGs. Teamwork demand discussion of tactic, preparations, discipline, and most terrible – obeying commands of a leader. Oh yeah, you NEED a leader. People who can play in team are playing football. People who play RPG want to be a badass hero in another world. You know «Kill bad guys, take theirs loot, save the world” – that kind of thing. And last thing that kind of people want to do in their quest for glory is listen to stupid orders of another nerd player. That is why the best way to use Golden Lion is to have a cohort initiator, which you control personally. It’s desirable for him to be a Battle Templar)))
18) Cursed Razor. This one is a strange one. I think that intensions were to have a dark and evil thing that will debuff and debilitate her enemies. And on level one it is! Aura of Misfortune is a very interesting stance. However, after that, everything is gone to Hell Heaven. I believe that agents of Celestial Realms snick to DreamScarred office and change final version of this discipline). "Curse" that do nothing. Strikes with pitiful damage and no riders. WTF?
19) Piercing Thunder. I have red some threads on forums and now I can understand that this one was created for mounted combat. But in final version it became weaker version of Eternal Guardian. There are some ok maneuvers, but overall it’s just plain bad.
20) Tempest Gale. Another one for shooters. But it don’t kill enemies. Just make them feel worse. It suits best for your cohort, who should make your life easier.
Maneuvers are weels and construction elements of your bulldozer tank machine.
In this small note I will not analyze every maneuver in POW. May be in distant future). Now we will talk only about the best.
Level 1.
Strikes
1. Flurry Strike (BB). Two attacks right from the start. May be authors think it should be unarmed attacks? But what do you say about Greatsword + stance + buff + power attack + strength? It could be (2d6+1d6+1d6+3+6 (Str18))*2~42-50 dmg. Absolutely devastating.
2. Breaking Glass Strike (SM). You hit, it will fail it’s save, it dazed for a round. It’s rather easy to get good DC on low levels 11+3(initiation modifier)+2(weapon)=16. Very few monsters will make it.
Buffs
1. Strength of Hell (BS). There are only 2 buffs in POW that increase to hit for all your attack in round, this one, and Encouraging Roar from GL. And Strength of Hell will staked with everything.
On low levels you need to hit, and things that help you to hit are golden.
Counters
1. Clockwatcher (RH). In small groups, when you get ambushed, you probably will die. This little counter will save you.
Stances
1. Elemental Nimbus (EF). Air element is the best. 1d6 damage, +2 to hit.
2.
Level 2
Strikes
There is no any outstanding things. May be (RH) if you don’t have access to BB.
Buffs
Counters
(SM) – get your save once per round. Yes, craft (something ****ty) is not good thing. But you can get high numbers with equipment? So you don’t need to spend much skill points for this.
Level3
Strikes
(BB) – holy mother… ! It is the best strike in POW. 3 attacks with vast damage buff as a standard action. You can get it with only one feat. Just spend two feats as additional learning, then retrain one, because maneuver is prerequisite for itself.
Buffs
(SM) – now you can strike two enemies as a swift + standard.
First - English is a foreign language for me. Sorry about language mistakes, feel free to correct me.
I'm playing D&D/Pathfinder for about 20 years as a player and DM.
Tome of Battle and its spiritual successor, Path of War, always were one of my favorite part of game options.
In our games, we often playing with 1-2 players and DM. Moreover, because DM has very little time for preparing campaign, we often use standard Adventure Paths.
That is why our PCs need a rather high level of optimization.
Through these years I've got a lot of experience playing martial characters using POW.
So I'd like to share some of my thoughts with you. Of course, everything is just my humble opinion and I don't pretend to be a final arbiter)
End of introduction)
Let's discuss POW features in complex.
Attention! I will talk only about PFSRD material. Yes, I know about Medic, Radiant Down, Chimera Soul, etc. But I don’t have lot of real game experience with all those new things, so may be next time…
Every class has 3 base features:
Method of recovery
Disciplines/Maneuvers
Class features
I. Method of recovery is an engine in your battle machine. There are 3 ways POW recovery works:
1. Move action.
Zealot only. It's the best way. No conflicts with your maneuvers, excellent buff that stacks with everything right from level 1.
2. Swift action.
Harbinger, Dread, Warlord, Mirmidon, Pathwalker. Much worse compare to first way. It conflict with buffs, counters, styles. But much, much better than...
3. Full Round Action.
Or “Wrong way”. You spend whole round doing nothing. Yes, in the best case (warder) you make "zone of nill', blah blah blah. You are doing nothing. You are waiting for your enemy to be a good boy and let you make your AOO. And poor stalkers don’t even has it…
II. Disciplines is a carcass of your machine.
You have an access to 3 - 6 disciplines in one class and you will have about 20 maneuvers at lv20 maximum. If we compare number of maneuvers with number of powers for psionic classes, you are PsiWar. Not even Psion)
So you should be careful when you making choices.
There is no equality in disciplines. Some of them are good, some of them situational, some of them bad.
What is good? If discipline has something good on every/almost every level. There can be disciplines that have good or even outstanding maneuvers, but ok/not good/bad/wtf? all other maneuvers.
Good;
1) Riven Hourglass. Probably the best discipline in POW. No bild can ignore it. It’s main power lies in possibility of additional actions. Act in surprise round, all day haste, additional move, STANDARD and full round actions. On level 15 Zealot can have THREE standard actions every round. How’s that Ilon Mask, Wizard?
2) Elemental Flux. Best Stances in POW, very powerful strikes (including AOE!), very good boosts.
3) Shattered Mirror. Something There, something here, but something VERY useful on mostly every level.
4) Sleeping Goddess. Good strikes, good stances, lot of utility, and wonderful free melee weapons!
Average:
5) Scarlet Throne. Very good strikes. Most powerful standard action strike in POW (Descending Sunset Strike). One super counter (Sanguine Perseverance). Everything else is so-so. Awful stances. Really.
6) Silver Crane. Very good stances. This discipline is mostly about healing, but it's much, much better to kill or incapacitate enemy then try to mitigate damage, isn't it?
7) Black Seraph. Eeeevil power! Actually, no. Now everyone can use it and not be afraid for his eternal soul. It has good strikes (especially AOE (no resistance)), one good stance, buff and counters.
8) Eternal Guardian. It’s intended to be all about battlefield control, and someway it is. Not always.
9) Mithral Current. As someone on forum said “it is how veeaboo thinks iyjjutsu samurai should act”. But main point of iyjjutsu is not who’s put his sword out first. It’s who’s kill his enemy first. Mithrall Current strikes does not kill enemies. However, it has very good counters.
10) Solar Wind. For shooters only, but something interesting starting only from level 3. Best lv8 stance for machine gunner archers.
11) Steel Serpent. The only way poison could work in Pathfinder. Some good strikes, buffs and stances.
12) Trashing Dragon. For 2WF only. Good start, bad end. It’s ok on early level and terrible on high.
13) Primal Fury. As a whole it’s not good. But it has very good strikes, buffs and stances for very specific builds.
14) Veiled Moon. Very useful low level maneuvers, very weak high level.
15) Broken Blade. It has best first level strike (Flurry Strike). And best 3 to 7 level strike (). One very good buff. One very specific stance. Everything other is bad.
Bad:
16) Iron Tortoise. I can understand the point of it: to protect and to serve, call fire on yourself, be a Captain America. But what do we have? Poor strikes, bad stances. You hit an enemy, and he will have some troubles hitting others then you. Sad story. I think, if hit you someone, he should die or lose any interest for combat at least.
17) Golden Lion. Intentions of creation this discipline is also clear – teamwork, leadership, together to victory. However, in my experience, there is no such a thing as «teamwork» in RPGs. Teamwork demand discussion of tactic, preparations, discipline, and most terrible – obeying commands of a leader. Oh yeah, you NEED a leader. People who can play in team are playing football. People who play RPG want to be a badass hero in another world. You know «Kill bad guys, take theirs loot, save the world” – that kind of thing. And last thing that kind of people want to do in their quest for glory is listen to stupid orders of another nerd player. That is why the best way to use Golden Lion is to have a cohort initiator, which you control personally. It’s desirable for him to be a Battle Templar)))
18) Cursed Razor. This one is a strange one. I think that intensions were to have a dark and evil thing that will debuff and debilitate her enemies. And on level one it is! Aura of Misfortune is a very interesting stance. However, after that, everything is gone to Hell Heaven. I believe that agents of Celestial Realms snick to DreamScarred office and change final version of this discipline). "Curse" that do nothing. Strikes with pitiful damage and no riders. WTF?
19) Piercing Thunder. I have red some threads on forums and now I can understand that this one was created for mounted combat. But in final version it became weaker version of Eternal Guardian. There are some ok maneuvers, but overall it’s just plain bad.
20) Tempest Gale. Another one for shooters. But it don’t kill enemies. Just make them feel worse. It suits best for your cohort, who should make your life easier.
Maneuvers are weels and construction elements of your bulldozer tank machine.
In this small note I will not analyze every maneuver in POW. May be in distant future). Now we will talk only about the best.
Level 1.
Strikes
1. Flurry Strike (BB). Two attacks right from the start. May be authors think it should be unarmed attacks? But what do you say about Greatsword + stance + buff + power attack + strength? It could be (2d6+1d6+1d6+3+6 (Str18))*2~42-50 dmg. Absolutely devastating.
2. Breaking Glass Strike (SM). You hit, it will fail it’s save, it dazed for a round. It’s rather easy to get good DC on low levels 11+3(initiation modifier)+2(weapon)=16. Very few monsters will make it.
Buffs
1. Strength of Hell (BS). There are only 2 buffs in POW that increase to hit for all your attack in round, this one, and Encouraging Roar from GL. And Strength of Hell will staked with everything.
On low levels you need to hit, and things that help you to hit are golden.
Counters
1. Clockwatcher (RH). In small groups, when you get ambushed, you probably will die. This little counter will save you.
Stances
1. Elemental Nimbus (EF). Air element is the best. 1d6 damage, +2 to hit.
2.
Level 2
Strikes
There is no any outstanding things. May be (RH) if you don’t have access to BB.
Buffs
Counters
(SM) – get your save once per round. Yes, craft (something ****ty) is not good thing. But you can get high numbers with equipment? So you don’t need to spend much skill points for this.
Level3
Strikes
(BB) – holy mother… ! It is the best strike in POW. 3 attacks with vast damage buff as a standard action. You can get it with only one feat. Just spend two feats as additional learning, then retrain one, because maneuver is prerequisite for itself.
Buffs
(SM) – now you can strike two enemies as a swift + standard.