Let's discuss Spike Growth a bit

[Segev]

Particularly, the part that talks about how the twisting of the terrain is "disguised to appear as natural." Clearly, the change is visible, since anyone who sees it happen knows it's dangerous. But it is somehow disguised so that it isn't recognizably dangerous to those who don't see it change when you cast it. But... what happens when you cast it in a worked-stone corridor, or in the carpeted hallway of a haunted manor? Can people not see that there is this odd patch of carpet, wood, or stone floor that is now spikey? If you're the duergar or kobold seneschal who's lived in this well-built structure for years, do you not recognize that your entry hall didn't always have those twisted thorns and spikey protrusions? Or are they invisible or otherwise not there? Does it work like that optical illusion that conceals the bridge over the pit in Indianna Jones, somehow invisible from every direction until you know just right how to step to the side to reveal it?

Or is it wholly visible, and the only disguise is that, if people don't know better, they think it's just natural spikiness and don't necessarily recognize that it'll be difficult or dangerous to move through? Do those who know the area get to know it's been altered to add those spikes and thus be suspicious, despite not having seen the caster cast it? The RAW don't say they do, but the RAW are unclear on what they actually see, too.

[Tanarii]

I've seen it ruled that the Perception check is only necessary when the terrain is natural. And I've seen it ruled that it looks natural regardless of where it is cast.

I allowed in worked stone adventuring sites and required the check when necessary.

[Skrum]

Maybe the spikes are more or less horizontal with the surface, giving it just a slight textured look at a glance. But then when someone is about to step on it, the spikes rise up to a vertical position. Like the grass in Aeon Flux lol.

I honestly have more problem with the amount of damage this spell does: like it's magical caltrops, but caltrops all the same. And a single step would potentially *kill* a normal person. By stabbing their foot. It's one of the acute examples of the incoherence of hit points, which honestly generally don't bother me. Spike Growth does though....it should at least do poison damage. I'd buy the deadliness at that point.

[KorvinStarmast]

Segev: Define "natural area" first. As the game doesn't, you have to for your world.

Clearly, the change is visible,
If the perception / Wisdom save is passed, or if the casting of the spell is observed.

But it is somehow disguised so that it isn't recognizably dangerous to those who don't see it change when you cast it.
Yeah It Is Magic.

But... what happens when you cast it in a worked-stone corridor, or in the carpeted hallway of a haunted manor?
If nobody is there to see it, they don't know it's there.
But if you think those are not natural, you can rule that it is obvious ... in bright light. If it is an obscured area, or in dim light, or in darkness, or in a partially obscured area they maybe they don't see it.
So: It Depends On The Situation.
Make a ruling and press on.

Overthinking: it happens.

[Segev]

Maybe the spikes are more or less horizontal with the surface, giving it just a slight textured look at a glance. But then when someone is about to step on it, the spikes rise up to a vertical position. Like the grass in Aeon Flux lol.

I honestly have more problem with the amount of damage this spell does: like it's magical caltrops, but caltrops all the same. And a single step would potentially *kill* a normal person. By stabbing their foot. It's one of the acute examples of the incoherence of hit points, which honestly generally don't bother me. Spike Growth does though....it should at least do poison damage. I'd buy the deadliness at that point.

It's difficult terrain; I actually always pictured the spikes as being much bigger than caltrops. Picture more three-foot-high stalagmites, twisted and with protrusions additional spikes. You're walking through an area that actively prevents you from moving without running into piercing spikes, which magically don't necessarily look as dangerous as they are if you didn't see them form and failed your Wisdom save. Which is part of where my issue with, "wait, how does this look natural in a worked / built hallway?" Because you're right: the amount of damage makes NO sense if the spikes are mere foot-poking hazards.

...maybe the whole area is, as you suggest, concealing the spikes, so they shoot up beneath and around people as they walk through it?

[titi]

Maybe the disguise is the last part of the spell, so anyone who see the spell taking effect can see the spikes appear, but once the spell is completed it looks alright

[Segev]

If the perception / Wisdom save is passed, or if the casting of the spell is observed.

The distinction of it being obvious to those who see it cast means something obviously visible must be happening. The fact that it requires a Wisdom save to recognize it as magically dangerous if you DIDN'T see it being cast is what makes this curious.

Scrum's idea of "textured floor" and spikes popping up actually might work, here: the spell causes the area to warp and twist with hazardous spikes, then swivel everything back down into the ground, only a subtle effect giving hint to the presence of the hazard. Stepping into the area causes spikes to shoot up, spin around out of the ground, and otherwise move to impale you based on where you stepped and possibly do so in horrifying ways.

Or maybe the spikes visibly grow up out of the ground, but once set have a forced perspective coloration to them that disguises their presence and makes the area look unmodified, unless you succeed a Wisdom save to break the magically-shifting forced perspective and see it from only one angle.


Maybe the disguise is the last part of the spell, so anyone who see the spell taking effect can see the spikes appear, but once the spell is completed it looks alright
Yeah, that. That's a good thought.

[JellyPooga]

I like the idea of it being "Indiana Jones bridge of faith" style, myself; a subtle illusion that is obvious once you recognise it for what it is.

Difficult terrain doesn't have to be large to slow you down; large stalagmites or the like aren't necessary; caltrops only need be an inch or two long to give someone pause for thought before rushing in and rubble only need be unsteady underfoot for the same purpose. For me, Spike Growth is a combination of both of these two elements; unsteady footing like loose rubble that is liable to turn or shift underfoot ("[the ground] twists") plus pointy bits that cause the damage ("...and sprouts hard spikes and thorns"). This interpretation could easily be disguised as natural or even worked flooring if the "twists" hide the "spikes", but potentially not if the magic reveals the change in progress whilst being observed.

[Segev]

I like the idea of it being "Indiana Jones bridge of faith" style, myself; a subtle illusion that is obvious once you recognise it for what it is.

Difficult terrain doesn't have to be large to slow you down; large stalagmites or the like aren't necessary; caltrops only need be an inch or two long to give someone pause for thought before rushing in and rubble only need be unsteady underfoot for the same purpose. For me, Spike Growth is a combination of both of these two elements; unsteady footing like loose rubble that is liable to turn or shift underfoot ("[the ground] twists") plus pointy bits that cause the damage ("...and sprouts hard spikes and thorns"). This interpretation could easily be disguised as natural or even worked flooring if the "twists" hide the "spikes", but potentially not if the magic reveals the change in progress whilst being observed.

So something like every step is a cross between an ankle-breaking pitfall and a bear trap that clamps spikes into your leg when you step in it. But releases when you pick your now-mangled foot back up.

[Unoriginal]

The spell specifically states that the now-hazardous area is "camouflaged", and you need a WIS (Perception) check to discover the hazard, rather than an INT or WIS save or INT (Investigation) check.

To me it means the spikes, thornes, etc are just hidden in the area's normal features.

Like, cast it on a patch of grass? Enjoys the literal blades of grass.

Cast it on a carpet? Now some of the fibers are hardened and have hooks.

Cast it on a tile floor? The edges of the tiles are sharp as razors while the middle is slippery.

Etc.

Spike Growth is not a spell with obviously perceptible effects .

[Kane0]

Ive seen it ruled that it looks like plant ovegrowth in the area, but that overgrowth doesnt look hazardous.

[Chronos]

The spikes resemble what the floor normally looks like. They don't match it perfectly, which is why it's possible to notice them with a Perception check, but they blend in. Like Unoriginal said.