Wall (Sphere) of Force, Wall of Fire, water, cover, and spells

[Glarnog]

If this should be broken up in to multiple posts please let me know and I'll try to repost after splitting it up.

Does water grant cover? Does it block "a clear path to the target"? Would a completely submerged creature have total cover? What about the spell Sacred Flame? Could you hit someone completely submerged? What other issues or spells might be affected?

Wall of Fire is opaque. But it's not cover? Assuming the caster had seen the room before hand, could they cast Wall of Force to the other side? What of Dimensional Door?

Is a Wall (Sphere) of Force moveable? Could it basically be move like a hamster ball? And if so, would you not then be able to just push over Walls of Force, at least by the various sections? DM sees nothing in the spell description to indicate its immoveable. Which has some pretty bad implications for that spell and probably quite a few more.

Assuming a Wall of Force with zero gaps, or a sphere...

Magic Missiles would miss? It doesn't have the language of Fireball about streaking from your finger. Would a Fireball explode on contact with something invisible? Or just fizzle out?

Could you cast Spiritual Weapon such that it appears on the other side? What about other summoning type spells? Sacred Flames says it descends on the target, but not how much clearance if any it actually needs. Any other spells that can just pop up on the other side? Is sound physical? Can you hear and be heard through a wall/sphere of Force? Are most spells all blocked because there isn't a clear path? What isn't blocked?

How does targeting a Sphere of Force work? Assuming a battle map. You choose an intersection point and say how high off the ground and what radius? Could you make it a small sphere and try to compress a target and destroy it? Can air or water pass through it? Since it "springs into existence" could it push water or air or gas away? Like if the person is underwater and you're trying to save them, could you bubble them, in just air? Could you use it to make an air bubble? Or a floating bubble? Would having the sphere not free floating affect it being able to be moved or not?

So misty step, dimensional door, teleport can by pass wall of force because it targets the caster? Even if the effect of the spell moves them across the Wall/Sphere of Force? Seems super cheap that a 2nd level spell can just bypass it? What counts for Ethereal travel? Just Ethereal Jaunt?

I'm sure a lot of my thinking is clouded by decades of previous editions. Is there anything else we should know?

So our group (11th level cleric, rogue, wizard and 9th fighter) are in a fairly large dungeon. We enter a rectangular room along one of the wide ends. Undead scattered about. Handful of zombies, a couple of wights. Toward the far end of the room is a Death knight with an Unholy avenger. The DK makes a wall of fire pointing in our direction with our cleric on his side of it. The wall blocks the room from wall to wall. There is a gap in the center of the room above the 20' of wall of fire. The wizard puts the DK in a sphere of force. Unsure what the DK was doping, but looked like he was trying to do a circle on the floor with his sword. I told the DM the DK is separated by sphere of force, not hemi sphere. Next round after zombies and wights are destroyed on the side with out the cleric, the wizard dimensional doors him and the fighter to the other side of the wall of force. Now that I think about it could that have still happened if there wasn't a gap? I guess obscurement doesn't block a clear path? After the remaining wight was dispatched there was some parlaying and the sphere was dropped and the DK moved on.

Thank you all

[RSP]

So, I think the walls from “Wall of” spells stays immobile where it’s set.

For Wall of Force, though the spell description doesn’t distinctly say so this line is of import:

“It can be free floating or resting on a solid surface.”

If the wall isn’t held immobile by magic, this line would be pretty meaningless, as creating it “free floating” would mean it just then clatters to the ground after it’s created there, making it pretty useless. Likewise, as you suggested, it could just be pushed down even if on a solid surface, if it’s not being magically held immobile.

The spell basically becomes worthless if it’s not immobile, if used for anything other than a sphere or wedge.

It definitely blocks line of effect:

“Nothing can physically pass through the wall.”

Though I don’t think this blocks non-Ethereal plane teleportation: it would say so if it did, in my opinion.

My take from Wall of Fire and regarding your water questions is they do not block line of effect. WoF would state it if it did. As for water, I’d imagine the Underwater combat rules would mention it blocking line of effect if it did:

“Underwater the following rules apply.

When making a melee weapon attack, a creature that doesn’t have a swimming speed (either natural or granted by magic) has disadvantage on the attack roll unless the weapon is a dagger, javelin, shortsword, spear, or trident.

A ranged weapon attack automatically misses
a target beyond the weapon’s normal range. Even against a target within normal range, the attack roll has disadvantage unless the weapon is a crossbow, a net, or a weapon that is thrown like a javelin (including a spear, trident, or dart).

Creatures and objects that are fully immersed in water have resistance to fire damage.”

So if an arrow or bolt can hit through water, I’d imagine a spell could.

But it’s a good question, and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with a DM who rules water stops line of effect.

[Sigreid]

Just for 2,

Wall of fire would provide concealment and not cover as you can't see through it but nothing stops you from, for example; throwing a rock through it to see if you can hit something.
I believe wall of force is, and is intended to be immobile. There's already a sphere of force hamster ball spell.

[JackPhoenix]

Does water grant cover?
Yes. There's a precedent for that in Forge of Fury, where certain enemy gains 3/4 cover from being mostly submerged.

Does it block "a clear path to the target"? Would a completely submerged creature have total cover? Could you hit someone completely submerged?
Maybe. Depends on the GM's judgement of the specific situation.

Wall of Fire is opaque. But it's not cover? Assuming the caster had seen the room before hand, could they cast Wall of Force to the other side? What of Dimensional Door?
Being opaque means Wall of Fire provides heavy obscurement to anything on the opposite side, but it's not a solid obstacle that would provide cover. You can cast spells that don't require you to see the target through it.

Is a Wall (Sphere) of Force moveable? Could it basically be move like a hamster ball? And if so, would you not then be able to just push over Walls of Force, at least by the various sections? DM sees nothing in the spell description to indicate its immoveable. Which has some pretty bad implications for that spell and probably quite a few more.
Spells do what they say. While Wall of Force doesn't say it's immovable, it also doesn't provide any permission to move it once placed. If a spell doesn't give an explicit permission to do something, you can generally assume you can't do it.

Magic Missiles would miss? It doesn't have the language of Fireball about streaking from your finger. Would a Fireball explode on contact with something invisible? Or just fizzle out?
Wall of Force provides full cover. You can't target Magic Missile against something behind full cover. And Fireball doesn't care if the obstacle it hits is visible or not.

Could you cast Spiritual Weapon such that it appears on the other side? What about other summoning type spells?
Yes

Any other spells that can just pop up on the other side? Is sound physical? Can you hear and be heard through a wall/sphere of Force? Are most spells all blocked because there isn't a clear path? What isn't blocked?
Anything that doesn't require a target (or that ignores cover, like Sacred Flame) works.


How does targeting a Sphere of Force work? Assuming a battle map. You choose an intersection point and say how high off the ground and what radius?
Yes.

Could you make it a small sphere and try to compress a target and destroy it?
No. If the wall interescts a creature's space, the creature is pushed on one side of the wall. If the sphere is smaller than the creature's space, you can't push the creature inside, as the wall would still be intersecting its space, and thus the creature would be pushed on one side of the wall again. Repeat until it's outside the sphere and its space no longer intersect the wall.

Can air or water pass through it?
No.


Since it "springs into existence" could it push water or air or gas away?
Yes. It's got a volume, it would push air or water form its volume.

Like if the person is underwater and you're trying to save them, could you bubble them, in just air? Could you use it to make an air bubble?
No. The spell won't create air where there was none before.

Or a floating bubble? Would having the sphere not free floating affect it being able to be moved or not?
No.

So misty step, dimensional door, teleport can by pass wall of force because it targets the caster? Even if the effect of the spell moves them across the Wall/Sphere of Force? Seems super cheap that a 2nd level spell can just bypass it?
Correct.

What counts for Ethereal travel? Just Ethereal Jaunt?
Any form of travel on ethereal plane.