Optimization Advice for Level 11 Spike Growth Forced Movement Build

[gloryblaze]

Planning to play in a level 11 one-shot this weekend. A friend and I want to play a combination of two characters. My friend is going with the new Path of the Giant barbarian, probably centaur. I'm building a character designed to combine spike growth with forced movement. I can do my thing, then my friend can also turn Large to grapple + drag even Huge enemies through the spike growth, and can use Mighty Impel as a bonus action to do even more dragging. I'm pretty happy with what I've built, but I'm always happy to pick the forum's brain to see if I missed anything!


Rolled stats: 15/13/13/13/12/8
1 bonus feat to start
1 Uncommon magic item to start
any mundane equipment (within reason)



CL Divine Soul Sorcerer 2/Swarmkeeper Ranger 4/Dao Genie Warlock 5

Feats: Crusher (CL), Telekinetic (Bonus), Metamagic Adept (Ranger 4), Cha +2 (Warlock 4)
Magic Item: Moon Sickle +1 (+1 to attack/damage rolls, spell attacks, and Ranger spell save DC; +1d4 healing whenever I use a spell to heal)

12 Str/13 Dex/14 Con/8 Int/13 Wis/20 Cha
(CL: Cha +2, Crusher: Con +1, Telekinetic: Cha +1)

Sorcerer cantrips: guidance, light, minor illusion, lightning lure
Warlock cantrips: eldritch blast, mind sliver, infestation
Swarmkeeper + Telekinetic: mage hand (60 ft. range, invisible)

Sorcerer spells: bless (Lawful affinity), shield, silvery barbs, healing word
Ranger spells: faerie fire (Swarmkeeper), speak with animals (Primal Awareness), absorb elements, goodberry, longstrider
Warlock spells:

1st-level: armor of Agathys

2nd-level: spike growth, misty step, vortex warp

3rd-level: counterspell, hypnotic pattern

Metamagic: Quickened and Subtle (4 SP—2 from Sorcerer and 2 from Metamagic Adept)

Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast, Grasp of Hadar

Pact Boon: Talisman

Fighting Style: Defense

Canny: Perception expertise

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General gameplan is to quicken spike growth centered on as many enemies as I can on turn 1, then cast eldritch blast. The target takes 3d10 + 15 damage from eldritch blast, plus 4 bludgeoning damage from Genie's Wrath. Then, I get to activate all of the following: Repelling Blast (x3), Grasp of Hadar (x1), Crusher (x1), Gathering Swarm (x1). That's 30 feet of movement away from me from Repelling Blast and 15 feet of movement towards me from Grasp of Hadar and Crusher, plus the target has to make a DC 14 Str save (8 + 1 [Wis] + 4 [prof] + 1 [Moon Sickle]) or be pulled another 15 feet towards me—meaning net 0 movement, so they're still in the spike growth if all goes well. As a result of all this pushing and pulling, the target takes an additional 24d4 damage from spike growth. And luckily a lot of this stuff procs so long as I get at least 1 hit—I don't need all three.

Turn 2 and on I can eldritch blast as an action like I did on turn 1, and I can throw in Telekinetic for an extra 2d4 damage on a failed DC 17 Str save, or I can quicken a second eldritch blast for up to 3d10 + 5 damage and 30 feet (12d4 damage) of forced movement if I need to go nova.

Planning to hand off my talisman to my centaur pal in case they need it for a grapple check.

I was debating whether to go with a Rod of the Pact Keeper +1 instead of the Moon Sickle, for the extra 3rd-level slot. Both give a +1 to spell attacks, helping the accuracy of eldritch blast. But the Rod gives a +1 to my warlock spell DC, not my Ranger spell DC, and I don't plan to cast warlock spells that force saves often if at all: vortex warp is mostly to reposition allies in emergencies, and hypnotic pattern is likewise not my plan A. (My current plan is to reserve 3rd-level slots for emergencies where a clutch counterspell or hypnotic pattern would be lifesaving and not cast them otherwise. Then I can burn them for SP if I have any left before a short rest, since they're Pact Magic slots.) So I went with the Sickle so my Gathered Swarm DC would be 14 instead of 13.

Another fun interaction is that the DM has confirmed that the sickle makes all my goodberries heal for 1d4 + 1 instead of just 1, based on the Life Domain precedent, so I can be a decent out of combat healer!

Last fun quirk of the build is that I was originally planning to go Sorcerer 3/Ranger 3 for Metamagic, but I later realized that by going Sorcerer 2/Ranger 4 and taking Metamagic Adept, I actually get slightly higher HP (one of my d6 Hit Dice turns into a d10) and an extra SP (4 instead of 3), all while still getting Flexible Casting at Sorcerer 2 and having the same number of Metamagic options!

Anyways, like I said, I'm pretty happy with how this turned out but proposed tweaks are welcomed!

[Opsimos]

You did very well, that's a beautiful build. Here are some further ideas:
- You may wish to choose Winged Boots for indirect concentration protection
- Spike Growth is a Warlock spell for you because of Dao if that makes you wish the Rod more
- Don't miss out on Pass without Trace in the Ranger Spell list. That spell can often times be a time walk for the party.
- Telekinetic is good but does not do too much for you. Consider Fey Touched (Gift of Alacrity) to start more combats with your strong CC and to help reposition yourself to make your forced movement more effective
- Consider VHuman for Dex 14; if so, consider Inspiring Leader at Warlock 4
- Hypnotic Pattern is very strong. It also hits fliers well.
- Be careful to synergise with the rest of your party if you have one. Martials may be grieved by spike growth if they don't like to grapple.

[gloryblaze]

You did very well, that's a beautiful build. Here are some further ideas:
- You may wish to choose Winged Boots for indirect concentration protection
- Spike Growth is a Warlock spell for you because of Dao if that makes you wish the Rod more
- Don't miss out on Pass without Trace in the Ranger Spell list. That spell can often times be a time walk for the party.
- Telekinetic is good but does not do too much for you. Consider Fey Touched (Gift of Alacrity) to start more combats with your strong CC and to help reposition yourself to make your forced movement more effective
- Consider VHuman for Dex 14; if so, consider Inspiring Leader at Warlock 4
- Hypnotic Pattern is very strong. It also hits fliers well.
- Be careful to synergise with the rest of your party if you have one. Martials may be grieved by spike growth if they don't like to grapple.

Great points! Winged Boots are certainly a strong option to consider.

Spike Growth doesn't force saves, it's automatic damage!

Sadly I'm not at Ranger 5 and it's a one-shot, so no PWT. If it was a longer campaign I'd definitely pick it up at some point though (my next 2 levels would probably be in Sorc for an ASI to even out my Dex, but then I could take Ranger 5)

Going Vuman for Dex and taking two Cha half-feats instead of CL, one half-feat, and +2 Cha would leave me at 18 Cha, no? I'm not necessarily opposed to a sub-20 main stat but IDK if +1 to AC and initiative is worth the -1 to attack and damage rolls and HP save DC.

Yeah I was trying to minimize the number of concentration spells I took since I knew I'd by concentrating on spike growth most of the time, but HP was too good to pass up haha.

The other player is a homebrew class that does ranged-weapon-based DPS, so all good there! Just a three-man party

[Opsimos]

I must have been sleepy, you're right. At two party members, Inspiring Leader becomes a lot less attractive. But consider Pact of the Chain. The familiar can occasionally give out healing potions, advantage, ball bearings or what have you, and scout. This may be better than adding a d4 to failed ability checks.

[gloryblaze]

I must have been sleepy, you're right. At two party members, Inspiring Leader becomes a lot less attractive. But consider Pact of the Chain. The familiar can occasionally give out healing potions, advantage, ball bearings or what have you, and scout. This may be better than adding a d4 to failed ability checks.

Ooh, I do like that. I'll have to ask the DM to see if healing potions will be accessible or if we're being dropped straight into a dungeon or something

[KorvinStarmast]

Planning to play in a level 11 one-shot this weekend. A friend and I want to play a combination of two characters. My friend is going with the new Path of the Giant barbarian, probably centaur.
Hmm, my book has not yet showed up. I guess that pre order did me no good.

That's an interesting MC build, please let us know how it works out during play. :smallsmile: Agree that the rod of the pact keeper may not be the better choice, but given the warlocks I have played I have great affection for that item.

[gloryblaze]

Hmm, my book has not yet showed up. I guess that pre order did me no good.

That's an interesting MC build, please let us know how it works out during play. :smallsmile: Agree that the rod of the pact keeper may not be the better choice, but given the warlocks I have played I have great affection for that item.

Yeah I almost went with it automatically haha, it's a go-to for warlocks!


EDIT: The build ended up working great! First encounter was against three shambling mounds, second was three flesh golems, third was an earth elemental + 2 earth elemental myrmidons, and last was a beholder. The beholder fight was tricky but the first three got absolutely shredded by the spike growth + forced movement + allied grappler strat :) And even against the beholder, it eventually got grappled and forced to the ground, at which point the shredding was on!