[Pathfinder] Tactical Use of Schism

[Segev]

A power that lets you take an extra standard action — even restricted to 'purely mental' — is theoretically great. Get it on a Life Leech Vitalist, for example, and it could accelerate adding enemies to the collective and harvesting hp. If you want to run a Concentration power, it can Concentrate while you do something else. One of the big limitations of it is that it lasts only a round per level, though. So you almost certainly will be manifesting it during combat, unless you're ambushing the other side without even a chance at talking.

It takes a standard action to manifest, and you don't get your first extra action until the next round. So you're only breaking even on actions in the second round of it, and you have delayed your actions for a round to make that happen, AND your make-up action costs you -2 ML on the rounds you use it!

By round three, you are pulling ahead, but is the delay to your actions worth it?

Are there better tactics I am not thinking of to make use of thus power? It seems really strong but the tightness of action economy seems like it might make it a trap.

[Jack_Simth]

Psionic Contingency helps, as then you can get it up on the first round, without using an action.
It's also low enough level that Quicken Power applies.

And if it's activated as a (near) non-action at the start of your first turn... are you sure you don't get it that round?

[remetagross]

Don't forget your psicrystal will get it too, thanks to Share Power. Now, to give something to do to your psicrystal with mental standard actions...

[Segev]

Psionic Contingency helps, as then you can get it up on the first round, without using an action.
It's also low enough level that Quicken Power applies.Those can definitely help, though trigger power has a 10 minute manifestation time and, like the spell equivalent, is only one at a time. As a Vitalist, at least, that first one on a given adventure could be set up days in advance, though, so trigger power isn't consuming a power known spot! Unless you think you'll have 10 minutes between fights to set it back up, and thus want to keep it around.

Quicken also raises the minimum ML to pull it off from 7 to 13. Still, nice when you can do it!


And if it's activated as a (near) non-action at the start of your first turn... are you sure you don't get it that round?From the RAW of the power, itself (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Schism): "Your second mind takes its first action on your turn in the round after schism is manifested." (emphasis added) So, sadly, it's explicit in the power. Even if you Quicken it, the second mind doesn't act until the next round. (This also means that the power's duration is sort-of one round shorter than advertised, since it does nothing on the first round.)

I can see why you might think otherwise, though! But the RAW deny us, here. :smallfrown:


Don't forget your psicrystal will get it too, thanks to Share Power. Now, to give something to do to your psicrystal with mental standard actions...
Getting useful mental-only actions for the little guy is the tricky part, yeah. This is a really good point, though, so if we CAN find some.... :smallbiggrin:


The best I've been able to come up with is maybe an intelligent item somehow manifesting it for you, but that gets very expensive because you basically have to pay for an item that has it and can manifest it without other cost to you. Cheapest might be a psicrown, as those aren't expendable items in PF1's psionics (they're based on staves, and so can be recharged). But still, ideally this wouldn't require offloading the power entirely to an item. Just need that extra action one round early. Or a way to activate it before your turn, maybe? Trigger power is a good suggestion for that, triggered on "rolling initiative" (which, while metagaming, is something that has an in-game equivalent of "when a fight breaks out" or somesuch).

[Rynjin]

Psionic Contingency helps, as then you can get it up on the first round, without using an action.
It's also low enough level that Quicken Power applies.

And if it's activated as a (near) non-action at the start of your first turn... are you sure you don't get it that round?

For a cheaper option you can also Hustle (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/feats/hustle-power-metapsionic/) it.

Trading a Move action to get a second Standard next turn, and the turn after, etc. is very strong. It's basically 3.0 Haste at that point, if slightly more limited.

[Segev]

I had forgotten about Hustle Spell; that's an interesting option. Still doesn't do anything round one, but if you have a mount, it also doesn't cost quite so much.

As a life leech Vitalist, forcing people into the collective can be done as a move action by spending your psionic focus, so Hustle Power isn't great if that is your round one move. But if you want to do literally anything else and still use schism, it lets you do that. (It's 4 pp cheaper to use schism normally and try to force someone into the collective as a move action rather than to try to force someone in as a standard action and spend psi focus and +4 pp to make schism a Hustle power. But if you wanted to, say, manifest vigor on the whole party and also Hustle schism.... That's a nice combo.)

[remetagross]

Cast a Quickened psionic equivalent of Call Lightning turn 1, and let your schismed mind direct the lightning bolt each round.

[Segev]

Cast a Quickened psionic equivalent of Call Lightning turn 1, and let your schismed mind direct the lightning bolt each round.

Hm. Good thought, except that I'm not sure there IS a psionic equivalent of call lightning. Does anybody know of one? Edit to add: the important factor would be a once/round spend-an-action-but-no-other-resources thing you can direct with it.

It's good for concentrating on summoned monsters, too, probably.

[Jack_Simth]

Hm. Good thought, except that I'm not sure there IS a psionic equivalent of call lightning. Does anybody know of one? Edit to add: the important factor would be a once/round spend-an-action-but-no-other-resources thing you can direct with it.

It's good for concentrating on summoned monsters, too, probably.

Any concentration power, like maybe Telekinetic Maneuver (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/t/telekinetic-maneuver/)?
Energy Current (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/energy-current/)?

[SoleAr]

It can be a good synergy with Temporal Acceleration on lvl11. Sure, it's costly, but U don't lose your standart this round.