Prestige class feats and craft staff

[VinnythePooh]

I'm currently a cloistered cleric6/radiant servant of pelor 5 and my next level I want to take craft staff. Since I can apply metamagic feats to my staff and those same feats don't cost me a higher level spell slot to cast personally ( because of the radiant servant levels) can the staff I create behave the same way, i.e. no level/cost adjustment to craft?

[Crake]

I'm currently a cloistered cleric6/radiant servant of pelor 5 and my next level I want to take craft staff. Since I can apply metamagic feats to my staff and those same feats don't cost me a higher level spell slot to cast personally ( because of the radiant servant levels) can the staff I create behave the same way, i.e. no level/cost adjustment to craft?

No, because the staff doesnt have those feats and abilities.

[VinnythePooh]

Yeah but they're MY spells going onto the staff and all my healing domain spells are affected by the maximized feat at no adjustment to the spell level. I want to be fully prepared with the idea because my DM has to approve all feat acquisitions and I don't want to waste a feat for something I'll barely use. If I can't craft staff I may as well take the saint template and put off going up to 12th level for like two more months of IRL time. Any better suggestions out there?

[Crake]

Yeah but they're MY spells going onto the staff and all my healing domain spells are affected by the maximized feat at no adjustment to the spell level. I want to be fully prepared with the idea because my DM has to approve all feat acquisitions and I don't want to waste a feat for something I'll barely use. If I can't craft staff I may as well take the saint template and put off going up to 12th level for like two more months of IRL time. Any better suggestions out there?

Its a pretty solid no. I would also double check the requirements to get into saint, because you need to have like, never done anything even slightly less than exalted good your entire life to be able to get into that

[VinnythePooh]

Damn. Thanks. I'm a solid lock for the saint template though, cuz I discussed it with the DM and I've been donating a third of my treasure to greyhaw orphans for like 3.5 levels and use shield other on min 2 PC's per encounter since we talked about it. If I decide to go that route he's making me break up the LA into 2 parts and we're ditching the constant L,globe of invulnerability (which I wanted anyway cuz it's too powerful) and I'll have to donate all my treasure from the 2nd half of this current dungeon crawl (around 10 grand) So based on your input I'll probably do that cuz craft staff doesn't seem worth it.

[Harrow]

Ask your DM. If he says it works, it works. If he says it doesn't, it doesn't. If he asks, "What do the rules say?" then I don't think it's as Crake presents it.


No, because the staff doesnt have those feats and abilities.

Does it need to? A Wand of Scorching Ray has no to-hit modifier, but you can still make attacks with it using your own. You can put metamagic versions of spells into items, and doing so uses the adjusted level. A Maximized Cure Critical Wounds is a 4th level spell that normally takes up a 7th level slot, but a Radiant Servant can cast it using a 4th level slot. The adjusted slot is all the staff cares about, so it should treat it like a 4th level spell, which it is in all ways (both in spells lot used and the actual level of the spell). This should also mean the crafting costs treat it as 4th level, too.

[Zarvistic]

I agree with Harrow, see what your DM thinks. I wanted to add that Warmage Edge is a similar example of a class feature interacting with staffs, so you could show him that maybe.

[Darg]

I agree with Harrow, see what your DM thinks. I wanted to add that Warmage Edge is a similar example of a class feature interacting with staffs, so you could show him that maybe.

Warmage's edge only applies when activating staffs, not when crafting them.

When you craft items, it matters not if the spell in question is modified with anything. You can use a maximized CLW to create a normal CLW wand for example. It doesnt matter. In the same way the only requirement for creating a metamagicked item is having the requisite spell available (modified or not) and the metamagic feat. Casting a spell and crafting don't intersect.

Also you aren't ever casting a spell from a magic item. You are activating an item and thus follows different rules.

[Zarvistic]

Youre right, I misread the question. Was thinking to cast but I suppose for this prc that wouldnt work either given the domain restriction.

[Harrow]

Also you aren't ever casting a spell from a magic item. You are activating an item and thus follows different rules.

Do you have a rule you can cite for that? The description of oils and potions explicitly says that the user is considered the caster, the description of spell completion items refers to the person activating them as the caster, and the description of spell trigger items says they are "similar" to spell completion without saying that the user isn't the caster like they are for spell completion, so it seems a safe assumption to say that it's true for those as well. This should extend to things like a Scroll of Spiritual Weapon using the base attack bonus of the person activating the scroll, rather than any sort of assumed value based on the scroll itself.

[Chronos]

I think my ruling would be that you can't craft special staves, but when you use a normal staff, you can still apply your RSoP abilities to it.

[Darg]

Do you have a rule you can cite for that? The description of oils and potions explicitly says that the user is considered the caster, the description of spell completion items refers to the person activating them as the caster, and the description of spell trigger items says they are "similar" to spell completion without saying that the user isn't the caster like they are for spell completion, so it seems a safe assumption to say that it's true for those as well. This should extend to things like a Scroll of Spiritual Weapon using the base attack bonus of the person activating the scroll, rather than any sort of assumed value based on the scroll itself.

Take a look at the description for scrolls (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm). It only ever refers to the activation as being like casting a spell. Even the description for potions mentions that they are "spell-like effects (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm)." Also, using them uses the creator's caster level and minimum ability score.

You could say the character is casting the spells, but no item ever refers to the character actually casting the spell and they all heavily imply, if not come right out and say it, that the items themselves do the casting.

[VinnythePooh]

So let me work this out, I'm creating a staff with regular non adjusted cure spells in it(which are on my healing domain spell list which RSoP casts as maximized for my level of the prc) so I can apply my prc -maximed healing feat to them as they are activated? I can probably convince my DM of this but he's a real stickler on healing items. If the incense of meditation wasn't in the DMG I doubt he'd even allow THAT. Bc he hates when I just announce that I'm doing like 80 damage on some of my spells or near dead characters get most or all of their hit points back. I have to do a ton of healing, usually mid encounter bc most of my group is extremely inexperienced , 3 of six of the never playing before the last six months @ 3 hours a week .P.S. We are all incarcerated IRL and this is the best place I've found to get clarity on DND minutiae, so thanks for all the input

[Darg]

so I can apply my prc -maximed healing feat to them as they are activated? I can probably convince my DM of this but he's a real stickler on healing items.

That's up to your DM. Technically the staff is casting the spells and you are just using the item. However, colloquialism might have your back because colloquially you could say you are casting the spells. It's like saying you shot someone, but the reality is that the gun did the shooting and you just aimed and pulled a trigger. You're the cause, but not the source basically.

[Chronos]

Staves do depend at least partly on the stats of the user. That's why I'd argue for being able to apply your RSoP benefits (though not for a wand or scroll).

[Darg]

Staves do depend at least partly on the stats of the user. That's why I'd argue for being able to apply your RSoP benefits (though not for a wand or scroll).

The default is a magic item uses it's own stats. Staffs make an exception and forces you to use your ability score and feats to set the DC. On the other hand, it gives you the choice of using the staves caster level or yours if it's higher. Might have a RAW argument if the metamagic was for increasing the DC though.

[Chronos]

Yeah, to be clear, I don't think my position is RAW, just a reasonable ruling. Your DM might disagree.

And I think that the OP's DM might be inexperienced, if they consider healing buffs to be unbalancing. Even with the buffs, healing is probably still more balanced than many of the other things a cleric can do.

[Darg]

Yeah, to be clear, I don't think my position is RAW, just a reasonable ruling. Your DM might disagree.

And I think that the OP's DM might be inexperienced, if they consider healing buffs to be unbalancing. Even with the buffs, healing is probably still more balanced than many of the other things a cleric can do.

Healing can be really strong if you can't exhaust party resources. Which, by the way, is why people like getting wands of lesser vigor for cheap or using persistomancy to greatly reduce resources spent on healing. To be fair, things like that let me as a DM just throw a lot more damage their way. Anyways, if they don't know how to throw out more damage without killing the party it can be pretty distressing having the party feel pretty invulnerable against what should be challenging encounters.