Advice on character

[Daisy]

Looking for advice on which of the following two builds to use in an upcoming game...

The set-up:

The game will be relatively short, starting at ECL6, probably finishing around ECL10.
No non-base races (sorry, Whisper Gnome!).
Only base classes from SRD/PH2, "Complete" books and ToB are allowed.
Certain prestige classes may be allowed after discussion with DM.
No idea what the campaign will consist of, so we can't tailor our characters specifically for one type of enemy.
The real kicker for me, who was looking to play a Warlock, is that no more than half character levels can be caster ones. By "caster" I mean full caster from level 1, so for example a Ranger doesn't count as a caster.

I've narrowed my choice down to two possibilities. Which I pick may depend on whether the DM allows feats from the Complete books and not just base classes. I believe we're allowed up to two flaws for feats, which is nice.

Option 1: Scout 5/Warlock 1. Improved Skirmish feat means +4d6 damage if moving 20', with a 1d6 Eldritch Blast as base weapon. One invocation, probably See the Unseen as this goes well thematically with a scout.
Option 2a: Rogue 3/Warlock 3. Standard ranged build (PBS, PS, maybe Tactile Trapsmith as it'll be a high-Dex halfling build). 2d6 sneak attack with 2d6 Eldritch Blast. Two invocations, probably See the Unseen and Summon Swarm, the latter for it's ability to be usable whilst hiding without giving position away.
Option 2b: if feats from Complete Mage are allowed, I was going to go the Fey-Heritage route. Getting four Fey feats, DR 1/Cold Iron from Warlock 3 and Greater Resiliency means DR 6/Cold Iron, which for a Rogue/Warlock at ECL6 is not to be sneered at. Also, having three 1/day SLAs is handy, given the paucity of casting options in the party. And at ECL9 the last Fey Heritage feat would grant three more (and another point of DR :) ).

I'm torn between them because although option 2 is closer to what I'd like to play (especially option 2b), Skirmish seems so much better than Sneak Attack given that it's "always active" i.e. doesn't rely on denying the enemy's DEX to AC. But I appreciate there are folks on here with far more experience of playing these types of characters and I so thought I'd see what the playground thinks.

[Inevitability]

I'm torn between them because although option 2 is closer to what I'd like to play (especially option 2b), Skirmish seems so much better than Sneak Attack given that it's "always active" i.e. doesn't rely on denying the enemy's DEX to AC. But I appreciate there are folks on here with far more experience of playing these types of characters and I so thought I'd see what the playground thinks.

The main advantage of sneak attack is that it's much easier to apply to full attacks: a 9th-level rogue who starts a turn in a flanking position (or one 5 ft. step removed from one) gets sneak attack damage on both attacks, a rogue who picked up two-weapon fighting gets another hit, a kobold can bite for another possible sneak attack... Scouts need to put in a lot more effort if they want to deal skirmish damage more than once per round.

But yeah, for ranged precision damage builds, especially at low- to mid-levels where you only have a single attack to start out with, I'd go scout over rogue for the reasons you state. Reliably getting sneak attack at range is really tricky, and the easiest way (sniping) restricts you to a single attack per turn anyway.

[Anthrowhale]

Have you considered a swift hunter build?

Scout 1/Warlock 1/Ranger 1/Scout 3 Can do Swift Hunter(allowing skirmish of undead) and Improved Skirmish.

[Zarvistic]

Maybe it's useful, just wanted to point out unseen seer is from complete mage and would progress both your class features while staying under the caster level restriction. You'd need an arcane caster level dip but could enter at 6.

[Inevitability]

Also, you didn't really mention it anywhere in the post, but if you've got feats from splatbooks but no races from splatbooks... go human. Human can always grab you a feat that's more useful than the spare +1s and -1s that elf or halfling would yield, and favored class (any) is also useful in a PrC-restricted setting (assuming your table uses that rule).

[Paragon]

Have you considered a swift hunter build?

Scout 1/Warlock 1/Ranger 1/Scout 3 Can do Swift Hunter(allowing skirmish of undead) and Improved Skirmish.

Ranger 2 might give you an extra feat earlier than Scout 4.

EDIT : just realize that technically Pixie is a core race. Pixie Rogue/Warlock gets you fun stuff for ECL6 even if it's just 2d6 damage.

[Daisy]

EDIT : just realize that technically Pixie is a core race. Pixie Rogue/Warlock gets you fun stuff for ECL6 even if it's just 2d6 damage.

Lots of good points, many thanks, keep 'em coming!

Sorry, Pixie's not allowed (no races with LA). Pity...

[Inevitability]

If you want to make the rogue/warlock concept work btw, then one place to look might be the feats in Drow of the Underdark. Blend into Shadows is very good, allowing you to make a free hide check as a swift action each turn, even if there's nothing for you to hide behind or people are observing you, as long as there's magical darkness nearby. That means one reliable sneak attack each round plus movement. The Darkstalker feat, from Lords of Madness, helps the strategy work against creatures with Blindsight too. In such a case, I'd almost go back on my human-only advice, because halflings are bringing a lot to the table in the stealth department (goblins offer slightly more if all you care about is stealth, but halflings are much more well-rounded).

It's not the intended purpose of the feat, and the rules are slightly shaky, but on the whole people seem to agree that an at-will SLA has 'uses' to spend, they're just unlimited by default.

[Remuko]

why not just play a straight warlock? I don't and never have seen anyone consider a warlock a "full caster" so the rule about no more than half levels in (full) caster class shouldn't apply to it.

[Paragon]

A halfling Spellthief into Spellwarp Sniper with a touch of Unseen Seer is a great ranged roguelike build. (It's my favorite so far)

[Daisy]

why not just play a straight warlock? I don't and never have seen anyone consider a warlock a "full caster" so the rule about no more than half levels in (full) caster class shouldn't apply to it.

I'd love to be able to play a 100% Warlock. Unfortunately, many won't see it that way (my DM included).

[Remuko]

I'd love to be able to play a 100% Warlock. Unfortunately, many won't see it that way (my DM included).

that's fair, they're the DM and its their say but I'm just curious "why?", because Warlocks aren't really casters at all, much less full casters, and they're much weaker than full casters so it makes no sense to punish them in this way.

[Daisy]

that's fair, they're the DM and its their say but I'm just curious "why?", because Warlocks aren't really casters at all, much less full casters, and they're much weaker than full casters so it makes no sense to punish them in this way.

When we get around to starting the campaign, I'll ask him. Might be a while, though... he's just bought Baldur's Gate 3. :smallsmile:

[remetagross]

If you don't want to mess with a too-complex build, go full rogue and use splash thrown weapons. You'll be dealing with ranged touch attacks, just like with the Warlock.

[Remuko]

When we get around to starting the campaign, I'll ask him. Might be a while, though... he's just bought Baldur's Gate 3. :smallsmile:

oof yeah might be a while. that game seems to be devouring the lives of everyone it touches. only reason it hasn't gotten mine is because my PC can barely run it so I've been mildly disincentivized from playing it much til i can upgrade my PC.