An ultimate magus possibility.

[Clause]

Yes, i heve wasting my time especulating about UM, again.


If you take human, wyzard 1, spellthief1, archivist1, maho tsukai 1, ultimatemagus 10, x 5.

Can this be a viable build?

Using prodigious spell caster and southern magic shinenanigans co accomplish requesites.

The idea is: archivist can learn any or all spells at the game with southern magician. When you convert the archivist levels in maho tsukai levels, you transforms it in a spontsneius caster AND the previois list of spells continue to be an option. All the base classes are good wis save ones. So you will resist to take more maho level easily, and can go UM all the way. For more shinenigans, can take the infernal simbiont who give extra new spells per lvl. And using the spanded spell knowledge trick, we have truly optimal casting.

Spellthief side with enormous CL. (Masterspellthief, things)

Any feelings or thougths about it?

[Chronos]

Where's maho tsukai from?

And I think that, even though Southern Magician lets an archivist cast arcane spells, I don't think that's enough to qualify them as an "arcane casting class".

You're also missing out on several casting levels. You might be able to get one side of your progression to 9th-level spells at level 20, but you're definitely not getting both to 9ths.

[Anthrowhale]

I think the idea is that UM advances Maho-Tsukai (from oriental adventures). But:
(a) I don't know how you are getting second level prepared spells from a spellbook.
(b) Master Spellthief sets caster level = sum of arcane spellcaster levels (i.e. Maho-Tsukai, Spellthief (if you do Trickster variant), and Wizard adds up to 4.

Personally, I like Abyssal Specialist Wizard[Aligned Spellcaster[Chaotic], Spontaneous Divination] 5/Knight of the Weave 1/Ultimate Magus 10/??4 taking Theurgic Specialist at level 6. These combo to give you caster level = 2x ECL or more from level 6 on.

[Jack_Simth]

Where's maho tsukai from?Oriental adventures. It's a taint-based prestige class.

[RNightstalker]

Yes, i heve wasting my time especulating about UM, again.

Any feelings or thougths about it?

If it's something you're into, you're not wasting your time...speculate away!

[Chronos]

Ah, OK, Oriental Adventures was my first guess, but I hadn't realized that there were prestige classes that weren't in the prestige class section. And the way that class works, yeah, you're not trying to count Archivist as an arcane class; you have an actual arcane class that includes Archivist spells. So that part works.

There is another problem, though: Maho-tsukai has a prerequisite of 8 ranks in Concentration, and your proposed progression can only get to 6. There's a feat (Primary Contact) that increases the skill rank maximum by 1 for one skill, but that still leaves you short. And after Primary Contact, the only other option for exceeding a skill-rank maximum is to get a high-level bard to sing Inspire Greatness for an entire level (which is just slightly impractical).

[Jack_Simth]

Ah, OK, Oriental Adventures was my first guess, but I hadn't realized that there were prestige classes that weren't in the prestige class section. And the way that class works, yeah, you're not trying to count Archivist as an arcane class; you have an actual arcane class that includes Archivist spells. So that part works.

There is another problem, though: Maho-tsukai has a prerequisite of 8 ranks in Concentration, and your proposed progression can only get to 6. There's a feat (Primary Contact) that increases the skill rank maximum by 1 for one skill, but that still leaves you short. And after Primary Contact, the only other option for exceeding a skill-rank maximum is to get a high-level bard to sing Inspire Greatness for an entire level (which is just slightly impractical).

Another problem with the build is that Maho-Tsukai is "seductive" - the build in the OP assumes making fifteen Will saves to get those 10 Ultimate Magus levels and the five of whatever goes in after. Meanwhile, it's a Will save vs. the 10+Taint score to take a level in a different class, Taint still applies as a penalty to Wisdom (which as we all know is the key ability for will saves), and the casting DC is also taint-based, so you'll want to maximize your taint score in general. So a very quickly rising DC vs. a declining will save... and the build requires making that save fifteen times on the way to 20th. That's... probably not happening.

Edit:
Might get some interesting results with something like a Bard-5/Chameleon(Races of Destiny)-10/Maho-Tsukai-5. Convert Chameleon and Bard casting to get 20th level Sorcerer casting when you want it, but use dual focus to also have some Chameleon Divine casting - which can come off any list and (as a Chameleon-10) would have a CL of 20.

[Clause]

About concentration, i can have more archivist levels. Gonna say: wizard1, spellthief 1, archivist 3, and so maho-tsukai 1. To go this way. The question in focus, is if in this way, i can hafe full spellselection of the two classes.


I think the idea is that UM advances Maho-Tsukai (from oriental adventures). But:
(a) I don't know how you are getting second level prepared spells from a spellbook..

For qualification at wizard spells, precocious aprentice(complete arcane pg 181, solve the problem) and southern magician let me shinenanigans to 3rd level early.

About will saves: there are taint powers and feats that give taint bonus to any save 1/day. This will help a lot.




Edit:
Might get some interesting results with something like a Bard-5/Chameleon(Races of Destiny)-10/Maho-Tsukai-5. Convert Chameleon and Bard casting to get 20th level Sorcerer casting when you want it, but use dual focus to also have some Chameleon Divine casting - which can come off any list and (as a Chameleon-10) would have a CL of 20.
Great!! But, this can be maded at factotum5/chamaleon10?? Im actualy plaing one changeling factotum5/mindbender1/chamaleon1, so if this proceed, i can take some maho levels at chamaleon's capstone. Said factotun spellcasting isnt true spellcasting at all??

[Anthrowhale]

About concentration, i can have more archivist levels. Gonna say: wizard1, spellthief 1, archivist 3, and so maho-tsukai 1. To go this way. The question in focus, is if in this way, i can hafe full spellselection of the two classes.
No, you can only learn spells from the (singular) old spell list or the Maho-Tsukai list (which is generally lame).

If you want access to both lists, I'd recommend Hathran 3.

[Bohandas]

aren't ultimate magus and maho tsuaki technically from different editions

[Jack_Simth]

aren't ultimate magus and maho tsuaki technically from different editions

Maho Tsuaki: 3.0
Ultimate Magus: 3.5

They're supposed to be largely compatible, though.

[Chronos]

The bigger issue with editions, I'd say, is that you're using something based on the 3.0 rules for taint, combined with something from the same book as the 3.5 rules for taint. You could argue that the Heroes of Horror taint rules supersede the Oriental Adventures taint rules.

Well, that, and your character is simultaneously from the eastern regions of Rokugan, and the southern regions of Faerun.

About those saves to not take more Maho levels: On the one hand, the Oriental Adventures version of taint is fairly easy to manage, for anyone with divine casting: A Remove Disease or Remove Curse will reduce your taint by 1 each, and a Heal by 3. So if you can anticipate when you're going to level up, you can just prepare a bunch of those, put up with a low Taint score for a day or so until you make your save, and then cast a bunch of Maho spells to crank it back up.

On the other hand, saves still fail on a natural 1, no matter your bonuses or DC, and with 15 rolls, you have around a 54% chance of getting a 1 on at least one of them.

On the gripping hand, taking one or two extra Maho levels isn't catastrophic: A Maho level still gives you (effectively) full progression of Archivist spellcasting, plus full progression of the class's own spells, which is the primary thing you want.

[Clause]

The bigger issue with editions, I'd say, is that you're using something based on the 3.0 rules for taint, combined with something from the same book as the 3.5 rules for taint. You could argue that the Heroes of Horror taint rules supersede the Oriental Adventures taint rules.

Well, that, and your character is simultaneously from the eastern regions of Rokugan, and the southern regions of Faerun.

About those saves to not take more Maho levels: On the one hand, the Oriental Adventures version of taint is fairly easy to manage, for anyone with divine casting: A Remove Disease or Remove Curse will reduce your taint by 1 each, and a Heal by 3. So if you can anticipate when you're going to level up, you can just prepare a bunch of those, put up with a low Taint score for a day or so until you make your save, and then cast a bunch of Maho spells to crank it back up.

On the other hand, saves still fail on a natural 1, no matter your bonuses or DC, and with 15 rolls, you have around a 54% chance of getting a 1 on at least one of them.

On the gripping hand, taking one or two extra Maho levels isn't catastrophic: A Maho level still gives you (effectively) full progression of Archivist spellcasting, plus full progression of the class's own spells, which is the primary thing you want.


dude you got my question right in the sense i have the doubt, this is the center of doubt. but, it works?