PDA

View Full Version : Optimised Warlock



Rowanomicon
2007-12-08, 06:14 AM
I was just recently introduced to the Warlock class officially. I had heard about it and even seen it in play before, but never really took the time to learn about them and consider building one.

I thought about a melee Warlock build (and even started a thread to find out what the Playgrounders thought on the matter).

Now I was to know what you guys think about the "best" Warlock build or at least what things are necessary to be really good.

I'm not looking for game breaking rules loophole cheese like Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell).

So is there a general Playground consensus on Warlock building (did anyone make a guide?:smalltongue:) or do you guys have ideas you've used or thought of.

If anyone's interested the basic character concept for my Warlock character has changed. I think it's better, more original, and will be more fun to play.
The basics (excluding backstory and specifics) is that he's a typical "tough guy" the way a Fighter or Barbarian would be, but he's caster. The reason I like the Warlock for this is that he can throw his Eldritch Blast around all day long. He can do it at a moments notice and can use it whenever for the smallest things and for intimidation social setting.
The way my friend and I were talking about it it's almost as if he has a gangster type personality (like old school mafia, not rappers).

EDIT: Oh gods! I made a terrible mistake because I was so tired. I meant I wasn't looking for cheese.

ApatheticDespot
2007-12-08, 06:48 AM
If you're looking for divine metamagic level cheese for the warlock, you aren't likely to find it, because there is no such cheese anywhere really. As for jacking up the power of a warlock, if you take the Hellfire Warlock prestige class (Tyrants of the 9 Hells) you get a 2d6 bonus to your blast damage for each of the classes 3 levels.

If you have a major bloodline (from Unearthed Arcana, and given the fluff of the class a demonic bloodline is hardly a stretch of the imagination) you have 3 otherwise 'dead' bloodline levels, which you are allowed to add to your effective level for class features. So a Hellfire Warlock with a major bloodline adds a whopping 12d6 to each blast. Now this has the side effect of causing you to take a point of con damage each time you use the bonus, but by taking a one level dip into Binder (Tome of Magic) allows you to bind Naberius, who constantly heals ability damage, so you can still use it all day without fail.

That means that a Binder 1/Warlock 13/Hellfire Warlock 3/Bloodline 3 will be firing 19d6 blasts (possibly 20d6, off hand I can't remember if the wording of the eldritch blast makes its damage level dependent or not)

That should be cheesy enough for just about anyone:smallbiggrin:

Yami
2007-12-08, 06:55 AM
Well, for one, crafting feats can be very useful for warlocks, what with the whole not needing specific spells.

Not sure if they'll fit your style though.

Talic
2007-12-08, 06:59 AM
And if you're thinking about going a more "Diet-Demonic" route, and minimize that aspect, I've found that Warlock meshes really well with rogue, to combine sneak attack with blasts, and, when combined with feats such as Able sniper, allows you to be a decent hidden blaster. After all, when you can snipe with half the penalty and still move, it's not bad at all.

Kaelik
2007-12-08, 07:19 AM
Well for "best Warlock" I have two builds.

Cleric 3/Warlock 1/Eldritch Disciple 10/Contemplative 7

This actually literally gives you DMM Persist level "cheese" with your Warlock.

The other is:

Warlock 5/Chameleon 2/Warlock 7/Hellfire Warlock 3/Warlock 3

Buy a Thought Bottle. Cheat the Crafting system incredibly. Use the floating bonus feat for Extra Invocation (whatever you want that day) More versatile then a standard Lock, then after Warlock 12 and the purchase of a Thought Bottle, select a Crafting Feat Store your XP, Craft everything that requires that feat, The next day, pick a different Feat, Craft everything with that feat, so on and so forth. Use the Thought Bottle to return to your pre-crafting XP-500. Go back to selecting Extra Invocation.

Hellfire Warlock increases your combat power, (Though you can use UMD + Crafting to be pretty decent as well.) Then use Chameleon spells for Lesser Restoration to make up the Con damage.

DraPrime
2007-12-08, 07:20 AM
I'd go with the hellfire warlock as suggested. There simply isn't that much cheese for the warlock because there just isn't that much material about the warlock. The clericzilla exists because books with good stuff for clerics have been coming out for a while, and in greater amounts.

AslanCross
2007-12-08, 08:12 AM
If you're going to go melee, make sure you get the Eldritch Glaive shape. It's from Dragon Magic. It's the only way you'll be able to make a full attack with your eldritch blast damage. (You can make AOOs with it too)

Nebo_
2007-12-08, 08:19 AM
Hellfire Warlock with bloodlines and Bind Vestige for Naberius is the best I can think of.

RTGoodman
2007-12-08, 12:56 PM
Yeah, Eldritch Glaive from Dragon Magic is good one (and standard in a lot of higher-powered warlock builds).

Also, UMD itself is pretty cheese-tastic, so you can take advantage of your awesome skills with that.

Also, I think there's a combo out there somewhere on these boards (I can't search for another couple of minutes) that uses some feat from Drow of the Underdark and synergizes with the invocations for darkness and seeing in darkness.

Hyfigh
2007-12-08, 01:00 PM
I'm a fan of Warlock/Hellfire Warlock/Ur Priest/Eldritch Disciple. It makes for 9th level divine spells with a pretty hefty blast and quite a few invocations (I think dark but it's been a while since I messed around with the build).

Solo
2007-12-08, 01:25 PM
Handbooks, people, Handbooks. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=751117)

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 01:27 PM
Hellfire Warlock + something that provides Con-damage resistance/immunity (like the Strongheart Vest soulmeld) + Legacy Champion + Uncanny Trickster. Your Hellfire Warlock abilities treat your Hellfire Warlock level as 14 (due to the "+1 level of existing class features" ability shared by the Legacy Champion and the Uncanny Trickster), which means a variety of incredibly-powerful effects.

A decent method here is Warlock 6/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3/Legacy Champion 8.

Arakune
2007-12-08, 01:38 PM
Hellfire Warlock + something that provides Con-damage resistance/immunity (like the Strongheart Vest soulmeld) + Legacy Champion + Uncanny Trickster. Your Hellfire Warlock abilities treat your Hellfire Warlock level as 14 (due to the "+1 level of existing class features" ability shared by the Legacy Champion and the Uncanny Trickster), which means a variety of incredibly-powerful effects.

A decent method here is Warlock 6/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3/Legacy Champion 8.

The handbook say that you can't have immunity to con damage. In order to use the power, you must take the damage. There's noting that say you can't heal it with inhuman speed, though.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 01:40 PM
The handbook say that you can't have immunity to con damage. In order to use the power, you must take the damage. There's noting that say you can't heal it with inhuman speed, though.

Bad word choice on my part. Strongheart Vest doesn't prevent it, it just makes it go away incredibly quickly.

Draz74
2007-12-08, 02:55 PM
Hmmm. How many of these suggestions can you pack into one build, I wonder?

Does Binder 1 / Warlock 4 / Chameleon 2 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 8 / Hellfire Warlock 3 work out? :smallamused:

Of course even if it does, you're not going to be able to do the sweet item creation cheese ... which requires at least 12 levels of the actual Warlock class. And you'll only get 15 levels of actual invocations, which doesn't get you access to Dark Invocations. So maybe this is "eggs in too many baskets."

Tokiko Mima
2007-12-08, 03:13 PM
Bad word choice on my part. Strongheart Vest doesn't prevent it, it just makes it go away incredibly quickly.

It's not a regeneration really, it operates like damage reduction only for ability damage taken in a given round. A Strongheart Vest reduces any ability damage by 1 + essentia invested in it. So it's not Constitution damage immunity, only ability damage reduction that can be overcome by a large enough damage source.

The Vest tends to be the better option for Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil warlocks, as it lets you use Hellfire Blast and Hellfire Shield in the same round as many times as you have essentia for. Whereas for Binder with Naberius, you are limited to a single point of Constitution damage regenerated in a round. That Constitution damage is going to add up quickly if you're making full attacks with an Eldritch Glaive. Naberius' other powers aren't all that useful in the heat of battle (disguise self, take 10 on Diplomacy, use untrained skills, etc.)

Plus, if you take a second Incarnate level you can bind a Crystal Helm to your crown chakra and make your Glaive attacks gain a force descriptor, and/or use the various necrocarnium soulmelds for undead you create. So I definately agree with Fax that Incarnate is a path a Hellfire Glaive-lock should consider, assuming their alignment is compatible.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 03:35 PM
Right, I mix those two up all the time.

The other thing about Strongheart Vest is that it is acquirable without class level expenditure: use the Open Lesser Chakra feat, get some essentia-pool bonuses, and you're golden.

Rowanomicon
2007-12-08, 07:50 PM
I'm really sorry guys. I meant to type that I wasn't looking for cheese, simply power (edited in OP).

It would be greatly appreciated if people could provide sources for what they suggest, thanks.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 07:54 PM
That's a bit different then. I'd recommend going with Dragonfire Adept instead of Warlock. Same mechanics, different invocation list, and a more usable breath weapon instead of eldritch blast.

Rowanomicon
2007-12-08, 07:58 PM
OK, sounds cool, where's it from?

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 08:01 PM
It's in Dragon Magic. I'm playing one now, and it's a load of fun.

Of course, I've also managed to acquire more HP than the party barbarian at level 3, but that's more due to a plethora of [Draconic] feats coupled with flaws.

tyckspoon
2007-12-08, 08:03 PM
Dragon Magic. Also, if you decide to stick with Warlock, go for Hellfire Warlock anyway- those extra 2d6s really help in making sure the Blast damage keeps up with the damage other focused damage-dealers can do at high levels. You can avoid making it cheesy by the simple measure of not applying 'increases other class level' effects to it.

Jothki
2007-12-08, 09:10 PM
The handbook say that you can't have immunity to con damage. In order to use the power, you must take the damage. There's noting that say you can't heal it with inhuman speed, though.

What if you're undead?

Dode
2007-12-08, 09:13 PM
Well then I guess you can't use the feat because you have no Con score to sacrifice.

Arakune
2007-12-08, 09:15 PM
What if you're undead?

No hellfire for you :smallwink:

You need to take the damage, it came with the package. One of the few time the WotC explicitly say something without error.

Edit: Ninja'd!!!

Rowanomicon
2007-12-09, 05:58 PM
I don't have Dragon Magic, but Hellfire Warlock is free on the WotC (actually in the Fiendish Codex excerpt) site so I can use that. Dragonfire Adept is free in the Dragon Magic excerpt.
I'll do some more looking at them.
I know that 'Locks are considered to be a sub-par class so is Dragonfire Adept better?