BG3 Jump praise

[Saelethil]

I've heard a lot of people talk about how much they like the BA Jump in BG3 and considering the fact that the Bonus Action Jump was already tried and subsequently dropped from 1D&D I'm theorizing that what people like about the feature is the added mobility it gives to Str. based characters and not the Jump in and of itself. Am I wrong?
I'm waiting for BG3 to come out on PS5 so I don't have personal experience but I feel like it would be better to just give them a BA "Lunge" based on strength score instead of looking at barbarians/paladins/fighters and saying "Frog go fast."

My initial thought would be Strength score rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5. So 5-9 is 5 feet, 10-14 is 10 feet, 15-19 is 15 feet, and 20 is 20 feet.

[Snowbluff]

It was dropped because the current jump doesn't take your bonus action, and therefore is more functional in the game where people might want to do things with their bonus action. Jumping as any kind of action is not the case in 3.5,4e,PF1, and to see why it makes a poor action of any kind look at PF2. Currently, the jump scales off of str and just takes some movement.

If you want to provide more mobility, I could see adding a mini dash of sorts that can be used with the bonus action. This extra movement could be used to jump as well. Although, ALL of the classes you mentioned have access to bonus speed of one kind or another already.

[OvisCaedo]

I don't remember bonus action jump being tried in the DnDone playtests, just a full action jump being universally rejected. Did they try both?

[LudicSavant]

I've heard a lot of people talk about how much they like the BA Jump in BG3 and considering the fact that the Bonus Action Jump was already tried and subsequently dropped from 1D&D

The 1D&D version was an Action (not bonus action) and a big martial nerf for no apparent cause.

The BG3 version is a mobility buff to everyone (but especially Strength characters) and to the Jump spell. BG3 also includes other adjustments to Strength-based characters like thrown weapons having a much greater range and not requiring an Object Interaction to draw.

[Snowbluff]

The BG3 jump is only a buff if you only ever have to jump once and never had anything to do with your bonus action. It is a nerf, one that only exists because of the limitations of stapling 5e rules over Divinity's game design. This is why I would prefer the minidash (hustle?) in its stead, which you can use to jump.

A heroic jumping variant to increase jump distances could be made, too. But never, under any circumstance, make jump an action of its own.

[OldTrees1]

In BG3 most species movement speed is 9 meters.

BG3 Jump is:
Cost:Bonus Action & -3 meters movement speed
Effect: Jump 5 (+ Str mod if positive) meters
Notes: (Jump spell is a ritual and triples this distance)

When jumping is not used to clear gaps, it is a mini Cunning Action:Dash (4/9th at Str 14 to 8/9ths at Str 22)
When jumping is not used to clear gaps, and the ritual spell Jump is in effect, it is 2-3 Cunning Action:Dashes (18/9th at Str 14 to 30/9ths at Str 22).

When jumping is used to clear gaps, then the bonus action cost of jump is a nerf that gets worse the more jumps you need to make in a row.

There are times a GWM Fighter is moving to a new victim and will want to use Cunning Action:Dash instead of GWM cleave attack.


While it works in BG3 (since the default is 0 jumps per turn), it would be a mistake for D&D to have jumping cost an action (be it action, bonus, reaction, or even object interaction). The excitement about BG3 jump can be replicated in D&D by giving everyone Cunning Action:Dash (after bribing Rogues with something new).

[Snowbluff]

The excitement about BG3 jump can be replicated in D&D by giving everyone Cunning Action:Dash (after bribing Rogues with something new).

This is a fairly good point, it does step on toes of the rogue. I would get the impression that it would have to be a smaller bonus than double speed, based on str like Salethl suggested.

Also, I have had a thought. Is it such a good idea to increase the movement of everyone so randomly and unpredictably? If all creatures can bonus action dash, wouldn't that make it harder to judge and utilize spacing and abilities like Slasher or Ray of Frost? Would we even want to add a decision tree to increase the movement of all combatants, when 5e is meant to be relatively simple at base? Barbarians are already faster, paladins can already summon a steed. At least some fighters have more movement via spells such as misty step or longstrider. How much of the game would be invalidated or redesigned to accomodate everyone being potentially twice as fast?

[LudicSavant]

The excitement about BG3 jump can be replicated in D&D by giving everyone Cunning Action:Dash (after bribing Rogues with something new).

What if they brought back the Run action that's mysteriously absent from 5e?

(As is, a Dashing character only moves at a light jogging pace. Real humans can outsprint 5e horses. It's weird).


The BG3 jump is only a buff if you only ever have to jump once and never had anything to do with your bonus action. It is a nerf, one that only exists because of the limitations of stapling 5e rules over Divinity's game design.

Being able to essentially fly across the entire map as a bonus action is powerful even for many characters with useful bonus actions. With the help of an at-will ritual it's more movement than Cunning Action Dash. Enough to cross the entire screen even when fully zoomed out.

I'm not sure if I'd want to add gigantic bonus action dashes to everyone in the game, but it's a buff to more characters than you might realize.

[Snowbluff]

Thinking about it more, I think I agree that giving it to everyone is probably a mistake. It would invalid existing movement option and debuffs, makes tactical decisions less powerful by making enemy movement less predictable, and adds additional decision trees to the game's baseline.

What about a fighting style? Fighter is the class that seems like the odd duck out in terms of mobility, outside of a few archetypes. It would probably depend on what kind of game you're running (like quite a few fighting styles already), but that's why it would make a good option. Maybe even incorporate running rules into it some how.

[Mastikator]

A simpler option might just be to give everyone a mini-dash. Anyone can mini-dash with a bonus action, gaining half their strength score to their move speed (yes, explicitly to benefit strength based martials, you can even add +5 if proficient in athletics and +10 if expert to make that skill more valuable).

I do like that they did away with the whole "running jump" vs "standing jump", just let people jump my dudes.

A thing I really want to praise is how they made the choice between jumping and not a tactical decision, because you forgo PAM/HM/Hex/TWF by jumping, which may or may not be worth it vs throwing/ranged/spell scroll if mere movement doesn't clear the distance. Because one thing I found really FUN is running up close and throwing an alchemist fire and then throwing a smoke/alcohol barrel which explodes if it hits fire. It was like an improvised fireball from my barbarian.

[JackPhoenix]

BG3 also includes other adjustments to Strength-based characters like thrown weapons having a much greater range

Except they don't. What they don't have is a short/long range distinction, so it LOOKS like they have a greater range: Everything is usable to up to 60', instead of having 20' short range and 60' long range. Nitpicky distinction, right...? Not really, because javelins in D&D have a range of 30'/120', which means they actualy have shorter range in BG3, just like every other ranged weapon (except, for some reason, hand crossbow, which got a range increase). Ranged weapons can be used at long range, unlike thrown weapons, though.

[Aimeryan]

A simpler option might just be to give everyone a mini-dash. Anyone can mini-dash with a bonus action, gaining half their strength score to their move speed (yes, explicitly to benefit strength based martials, you can even add +5 if proficient in athletics and +10 if expert to make that skill more valuable).

I do like that they did away with the whole "running jump" vs "standing jump", just let people jump my dudes.

A thing I really want to praise is how they made the choice between jumping and not a tactical decision, because you forgo PAM/HM/Hex/TWF by jumping, which may or may not be worth it vs throwing/ranged/spell scroll if mere movement doesn't clear the distance. Because one thing I found really FUN is running up close and throwing an alchemist fire and then throwing a smoke/alcohol barrel which explodes if it hits fire. It was like an improvised fireball from my barbarian.

Charge: Bonus Action - Move in a straight line up to 5ft times your Strength mod.

[Person_Man]

I was always mystified that they left 3.5 Charge out of 5E. Maybe something as simple as "You may move up to twice your movement speed during your turn if you only move in a straight line."

Or you could add Run as a universal Bonus Action, and buff the Rogue's Cunning Action. Maybe, "When you Run, you also gain the benefits of Disengage, and at the end of your turn you may Hide if you're not within line of sight of any enemies."

And then clarify the Hide rules (e.g., enemies still have object permanence and know your general location if they've previously spotted you, Hide automatically fails if you move close enough to the hider and have line of sight, etc).

[JackPhoenix]

I was always mystified that they left 3.5 Charge out of 5E. Maybe something as simple as "You may move up to twice your movement speed during your turn if you only move in a straight line."

They didn't, but it's no wonder you don't remember one of the worst feats in the game.

[elyktsorb]

bg3 jump good because the game gives you actual reasons to want to jump and doesn't make jump movement have a strict limit, also you don't have to make an acrobatics or athletics roll anytime you want to do a jump you should be able to do because you have the str to do so, but your dm's like 'roll me X to see if you can do it without fudging it up'

[Person_Man]

They didn't, but it's no wonder you don't remember one of the worst feats in the game.


Ugh, don’t remind me.

In 3.X Charge was a full round action anyone could take to move double your speed and make one attack. (And there were dozens of ways to pick up Pounce so that you could make a full attack). So at levels 1-4 everyone is fairly mobile without a penalty, and beyond that you have to invest in a resource to keep up.

In 5E you have to spend a feat to get it, and it consumes both your Action and your Bonus Action, with no way to make your full attack at levels 5+. So most players are slow by default at low levels, and Charger is a trap option.

[OldTrees1]

This is a fairly good point, it does step on toes of the rogue. I would get the impression that it would have to be a smaller bonus than double speed, based on str like Salethl suggested.
The excitement is about the speed and magnitude of the speed. For a Barbarian in BG3, Jump is 2x speed and Ritual Jump it is 4x speed. You could have it be a smaller bonus that double speed, but it is easier to just give Rogue something new. (since you should give the Rogue something new anyways if you give everyone a mini cunning action dash)


What if they brought back the Run action that's mysteriously absent from 5e?
I think the excitement presumes still getting an action after the speedy movement. Usually it is about jumping and then attacking.



While it is simple to have a general rule change of Dash from an action to either an action or a bonus action, and give Rogue a new iconic Cunning Action. Whether this would be good for D&D depends on what combat looks like in D&D. Another difference in BG3, from my 5E experience, is that BG3 combats take place over larger areas and get to use geography to further limit mobility. Personally I think the jump is exciting but adding the translation to D&D would be less appealing after the honeymoon period.

[warty goblin]

I think the reason people love jump in BG3 is that it opens up the environment and makes the terrain traversable and worth paying attention to in a way that's very unusual for a CRPG, which tend been strongly towards static graph paper maps in various colors of dungeon. It also plays well with the game's fairly heavy use of verticality, which again is distinct from the standard flat map. Also the ground is frequently burning/ poisoned/frozen/otherwise bad, and jumping means not walking in the bad. This alone often makes it worth doing, just to avoid setting yourself on fire.


Except they don't. What they don't have is a short/long range distinction, so it LOOKS like they have a greater range: Everything is usable to up to 60', instead of having 20' short range and 60' long range. Nitpicky distinction, right...? Not really, because javelins in D&D have a range of 30'/120', which means they actualy have shorter range in BG3, just like every other ranged weapon (except, for some reason, hand crossbow, which got a range increase). Ranged weapons can be used at long range, unlike thrown weapons, though.

At least on my monitor, the range for most ranged weapons is pretty much "the screen" at standard zoom, which is what you want for a videogame. Longer ranges are cool and all, but scrolling around is annoying, and over dozens of hours I'll happily take the nerf to range for the buff to not getting cheezed off scrolling around comparing targets and getting shot from offscreen. And it's hardly like ranged combat is weak.

[Psyren]

They didn't, but it's no wonder you don't remember one of the worst feats in the game.


Ugh, don’t remind me.

In 3.X Charge was a full round action anyone could take to move double your speed and make one attack. (And there were dozens of ways to pick up Pounce so that you could make a full attack). So at levels 1-4 everyone is fairly mobile without a penalty, and beyond that you have to invest in a resource to keep up.

In 5E you have to spend a feat to get it, and it consumes both your Action and your Bonus Action, with no way to make your full attack at levels 5+. So most players are slow by default at low levels, and Charger is a trap option.

If it helps, the OneD&D version of Charger is much better; you're no longer required to Dash or use your bonus action to get the damage or Shove bonus, and it works with Extra Attack just fine now. It's also been made into a Str/Dex half-feat.

[Sigreid]

Jump is popular with me in BG3 because it can let you buypass terrain that can slow or damage you. By far my most favorite use for my BA is shove.

[Aimeryan]

I don't think the D&D One Charger Feat does the job being described here, which is essentially to give Strength-based characters more movement without punishing them so strongly for being melee.

In the consideration that the melee guy is 15ft short of being able to attack, using the whole Action to Dash doesn't really feel great. Adding 10ft to that (via Charger) doesn't make it feel better (in fact, there is a large chance of it being redundant anyhow). Instead, being able to use a Bonus Action (which would have been wasted otherwise) to close in WOULD feel good. Can you pick up Rogue to do this? Yeah, but it feels like saying to every melee character you have to take two levels of Rogue to not be savaged by this is not the right course.

Having that Bonus Action move (whether by jump, or a charge-mechanic) be Strength based also helps when non-Str-based character are kiting you. It also probably helps many monsters against non-melee characters, which is a good bonus. Of course, the melee guy still loses the Bonus Action, but thats better than a whole Action.

[Psyren]

To be clear, I wasn't saying 1DnD Charger is a replacement for BG3's jump changes, just that it's leap and bounds (heh) better than 5e Charger.

As far as BG3 - I could live with Jumping as a Bonus Action, but I'd much prefer it to be just cost part of your movement like in 5e. The only thing I would reject out of hand is Action Jumping, as that would screw over martials considerably for no reason.

[diplomancer]

To be clear, I wasn't saying 1DnD Charger is a replacement for BG3's jump changes, just that it's leap and bounds (heh) better than 5e Charger.

As far as BG3 - I could live with Jumping as a Bonus Action, but I'd much prefer it to be just cost part of your movement like in 5e. The only thing I would reject out of hand is Action Jumping, as that would screw over martials considerably for no reason.

Or both. Jumping is part of movement, if you take a bonus action jump it gives you a slight, str-dependant, mobility boost. It's situationally good, but you will usually prefer to have your bonus action for something else.

[Dr.Samurai]

Or both. Jumping is part of movement, if you take a bonus action jump it gives you a slight, str-dependant, mobility boost. It's situationally good, but you will usually prefer to have your bonus action for something else.
I am Dr. Samurai, and I approve this message.

[Psyren]

Or both. Jumping is part of movement, if you take a bonus action jump it gives you a slight, str-dependant, mobility boost. It's situationally good, but you will usually prefer to have your bonus action for something else.

I'm perfectly okay with sacrificing your bonus action or requiring a check (or both) for greater jumping distance.

[GeneralVryth]

To be clear, I wasn't saying 1DnD Charger is a replacement for BG3's jump changes, just that it's leap and bounds (heh) better than 5e Charger.

As far as BG3 - I could live with Jumping as a Bonus Action, but I'd much prefer it to be just cost part of your movement like in 5e. The only thing I would reject out of hand is Action Jumping, as that would screw over martials considerably for no reason.

That's basically how flight works in BG3. Unless you meant 10 ft. of movement cost for an X jump range. In which case I introduce you to the dashing Monk. One I had that wasn't even particularly optimized and didn't have the jump spell active still jumped or bunny hopped over 300 ft. in one round by chain jumping and double dashing. Which was both awesome and absurd.

Really jumping has 2 options unless you want to end up in jumping constantly to move faster land:

1. Jump has a bonus action action cost (and a movement cost?) but it let's you move further than you other would be able to.

2. Jump has a plain movement cost, but can't really extend your total movement unless you are using it to go over obstacles you would otherwise need to go around.

Arguably you could do both, by just having a standard bonus action that increases movement by X (ideally based on strength).

[Psyren]

I think Jumping should work like Climbing - here's how far you can get without a check or action, adding in one of those things lets you get this far instead, and adding both of them lets you get further still. Then let Monks and (certain) Rogues jump with Dex and you're nearly set.

[Aimeryan]

Or both. Jumping is part of movement, if you take a bonus action jump it gives you a slight, str-dependant, mobility boost. It's situationally good, but you will usually prefer to have your bonus action for something else.

Sounds reasonable to me. Have normal jumps be part of normal movement using your Speed and being limited by it, while Leap/Bound/Whatever uses your Bonus Action instead. Normal jumps use your Strength score - could go with that too for Leap/Bound/Whatever to keep it simple, or if we wanted it to be more advantageous for higher Strength users make it something like Str Mod * 5ft, min. 5ft.

[Kane0]

Oh yeah, it being a bonus action to get more movement explains why the thief rogue gets a second bonus action

Edit: im really enjoying it on my jumping spider for my beastmaster, but generally wouldnt want it everywhere else. Chugging potions as a bonus action is good though.

[MoiMagnus]

For comparison for those who don't have BG3, in BG3 "jumping" cost a BA and 3m (10ft) of movement and grants 5m+ModStr*1m (16ft+ModStr*3ft).

So if you want to get roughly the same manoeuvrability as BG3 but with less "gamey" approach, you could imagine than jumping is included in the normal movement, while on top of that every character can spend their BA to move by 5ft at Str 8-11, 10ft at Str 12-15, 15ft at Str 16-19, etc.
(So 5ft + 5ft per ModStr/2 rounded up)

[Tanarii]

I think the reason people love jump in BG3 is that it opens up the environment and makes the terrain traversable and worth paying attention to in a way that's very unusual for a CRPG, which tend been strongly towards static graph paper maps in various colors of dungeon. It also plays well with the game's fairly heavy use of verticality, which again is distinct from the standard flat map. Also the ground is frequently burning/ poisoned/frozen/otherwise bad, and jumping means not walking in the bad. This alone often makes it worth doing, just to avoid setting yourself on fire.

That's exactly why I saw jumping used a lot in D&D 5e combat. It's super easy to do, and a PC can clear 5ft in a standing jump at Str 10 and 10ft at Str 20, before any checks.

The distances the game is using seem pretty ridiculous if they're standing jumps though. 5e PCs are already plenty wushu enough for me when it comes to jumps.

[diplomancer]

That's exactly why I saw jumping used a lot in D&D 5e combat. It's super easy to do, and a PC can clear 5ft in a standing jump at Str 10 and 10ft at Str 20, before any checks.

The distances the game is using seem pretty ridiculous if they're standing jumps though. 5e PCs are already plenty wushu enough for me when it comes to jumps.

they are "Kind of" non-standing jumps, since they cost movement and you can't use them after you've used your movement. But, probably for ease of coding, you can do them without having moved at all in the turn.