Saga Questions

[Emperor Demonking]

1) In star wars saga how do skills go up per level?
2) Isn't wealthy, stupidly good?
3) What talents are must haves or too good or overpowered?
4) What ones suck or you should never take?

[Dhavaer]

1) In star wars saga how do skills go up per level?

Skill bonuses are +1/2 level+5 if trained+5 with skill focus. With additional bonuses for abilities and so on, of course.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

1) In star wars saga how do skills go up per level?
2) Isn't wealthy, stupidly good?
3) What talents are must haves or too good or overpowered?
4) What ones suck or you should never take?

1) you can get feats to 'train' or get 'skill focus' in a skill...this will grant you a +5 to the skill, otherwise, you get a flat bonus of 1/2 your character level to all skills.

2) it is nice...but honestly, if you play your character a certian way you could score more than wealth could gain you from 1-20 as a straight noble...you just have to have a DM want to give you money. Money can be great, it solves many problems, but it is not an end all be all, and therefore it is not as 'stupid good' as it might otherwise appear to be. very nice, but not necessar to be rich as a character...just easier.

3) really depends on what you are doing as a character...if you are not going to use a feat/talent much and it isn't a buildup to anything else...that feat/talent is pretty worthless...some are great for certian builds, others blow without the right combination of abilities. You'll have to figure out a build or a concept before this question can be answered any more specific than this.

4) see #3.

[Mando Knight]

If you wear armor at all, Armored Defense and Improved Armored Defense from the Soldier's talent tree are a must, along with Armor Mastery if you have a Dex bonus one higher than that of the armor... you (or a friend) can also use the Tech Specialist feat to increase the potency of that armor further... Second Skin is also useful, as it's a +1 Reflex and +1 Fort defense when you wear armor you're proficient with. Juggernaut is worthless unless you plan on wearing medium or heavy armor (see Boba Fett's stats...).

Gambler from the Scoundrel's talent trees is useless unless you plan on gambling... a lot. Taking it multiple times increases your ability to gamble, but will definitely keep you from gaining many of the better talents, like Fortune's Favor or Weapon Specialization.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I am curious about a few things...

can someone use tech specialist to modify components being installed on a droid? Like...weapons are kinda a no brainer, but what about droid armor?

Moreover...what about droid shields...can you modify them like a vehicle's shields and add +5 to the rating...if so count me in! SR20 on a medium droid is a minimum 20+15+10+5 = 50 extra HP...

And now for a cheese question...is it bad to make a character that will have gunslinger, bounty hunter, scoundral and take the feats Dastardly strike, Debilitating shor, and Hunter's mark while carrying around a tiny droid with 4 heroic levels (4 classes, all 1st level), one of them noble, and their talents retrained into noble talents to get inspire zeal.

That way, any aimed sneak attack shot will get +4 steps down the condition track...and any shot that goes over their damage threshold will be a 5 pt. slide. Since you will also be benefitting likely from +2 dam specialization, +2 damage from a tech specialist weapon, +4 minimum from levels, inspire confidence (the damage one, + your level so +8 min), and maybe a level or three in soldier for devastating attack...so...heavy blaster or blaster rifle...3d8+20 and -5 to their threshold...average 32 damage a level 10 enemy likely has around 25 threshhold...

Mmmmm...cheesy...good idea or bad idea...

[Uin]

I've played a couple of Saga games, a slighty too intelligent Clone Soldier/Scout type both times, and my favourite talent was Demolition(?) in the Commando tree. I carried around 3 det-packs, using them as grenades/traps to take out masses of droids with 7d6 rather than 5d6 explosions.

The Scout talent that lets you improve your condition track with 2 actions instead of 3 is pretty good too, since it allows you to do at least something on the improving round.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The Scout talent that lets you improve your condition track with 2 actions instead of 3 is pretty good too, since it allows you to do at least something on the improving round.

That's a feat called "Shake it off", Scouts just get it for free if they meet the prerequisites.

[Mando Knight]

I am curious about a few things...

can someone use tech specialist to modify components being installed on a droid? Like...weapons are kinda a no brainer, but what about droid armor?

Moreover...what about droid shields...can you modify them like a vehicle's shields and add +5 to the rating...if so count me in! SR20 on a medium droid is a minimum 20+15+10+5 = 50 extra HP...

And now for a cheese question...is it bad to make a character that will have gunslinger, bounty hunter, scoundral and take the feats Dastardly strike, Debilitating shor, and Hunter's mark while carrying around a tiny droid with 4 heroic levels (4 classes, all 1st level), one of them noble, and their talents retrained into noble talents to get inspire zeal.

That way, any aimed sneak attack shot will get +4 steps down the condition track...and any shot that goes over their damage threshold will be a 5 pt. slide. Since you will also be benefitting likely from +2 dam specialization, +2 damage from a tech specialist weapon, +4 minimum from levels, inspire confidence (the damage one, + your level so +8 min), and maybe a level or three in soldier for devastating attack...so...heavy blaster or blaster rifle...3d8+20 and -5 to their threshold...average 32 damage a level 10 enemy likely has around 25 threshhold...

Mmmmm...cheesy...good idea or bad idea...

I'd say that you can modify each individual component on a droid, but not the Shield Generator, as that requires the shield to be part of a vehicle, not a device. I'd also say that you can have a Mastercraft Helmet Package on a modified suit of armor.

On the cheese question: Yes, you could modify the mini-droid like that, but you would need a lot of credits, as you need to either buy the talent packages or hire someone to do it for you... and those run from 1000 credits/talent package for a DIY reprogramming to about 25600 credits to hire someone else to install a new talent on such a droid with 10 Wisdom. (Hiring someone else to install a talent costs 100 credits x (Will Defense)^2, and a level 4, 10 Wis droid with a level in Noble has a Will defense of 10 + 2 (class bonus) + 4 (level), for a total of 16.) A DIY attempt needs a trained Use Computer check of DC = Droid's Will Defense, which is a decent deterrent for most characters who aren't as tech-savvy as KotOR II's Bao-Dur.

However, in order to use Ignite Fervor (the damage-increasing talent), you need to hit the target with the droid first... which disables Sneak Attack and Dastardly Strike unless the target otherwise loses its Dexterity bonus to its Reflex Defense.

Also, the droid itself will do little damage... a tiny droid would need to use a hold-out blaster or a blaster pistol... it can barely hold 18 kg (10 base Strength -4 (size penalty) = 6 Strength, 6^2 = 36, 36 x 0.5 (size carrying capacity penalty) = 18), and most of that is part of its internal systems, as a single tool appendage on a tiny droid weighs 10 kg, and a heuristic processor (needed if it's going to fire on a sentient) weighs a further 5. That leaves it with 3 kg remaining, and the droid itself doesn't have many features...

SR functions much like DR, except that it affects lightsabers, too. If an enemy's attack never exceeds the target's SR, the target will never lose any SR or HP.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I'd say that you can modify each individual component on a droid, but not the Shield Generator, as that requires the shield to be part of a vehicle, not a device. I'd also say that you can have a Mastercraft Helmet Package on a modified suit of armor.

On the cheese question: Yes, you could modify the mini-droid like that, but you would need a lot of credits, as you need to either buy the talent packages or hire someone to do it for you... and those run from 1000 credits/talent package for a DIY reprogramming to about 25600 credits to hire someone else to install a new talent on such a droid with 10 Wisdom. (Hiring someone else to install a talent costs 100 credits x (Will Defense)^2, and a level 4, 10 Wis droid with a level in Noble has a Will defense of 10 + 2 (class bonus) + 4 (level), for a total of 16.) A DIY attempt needs a trained Use Computer check of DC = Droid's Will Defense, which is a decent deterrent for most characters who aren't as tech-savvy as KotOR II's Bao-Dur.

However, in order to use Ignite Fervor (the damage-increasing talent), you need to hit the target with the droid first... which disables Sneak Attack and Dastardly Strike unless the target otherwise loses its Dexterity bonus to its Reflex Defense.

Also, the droid itself will do little damage... a tiny droid would need to use a hold-out blaster or a blaster pistol... it can barely hold 18 kg (10 base Strength -4 (size penalty) = 6 Strength, 6^2 = 36, 36 x 0.5 (size carrying capacity penalty) = 18), and most of that is part of its internal systems, as a single tool appendage on a tiny droid weighs 10 kg, and a heuristic processor (needed if it's going to fire on a sentient) weighs a further 5. That leaves it with 3 kg remaining, and the droid itself doesn't have many features...

SR functions much like DR, except that it affects lightsabers, too. If an enemy's attack never exceeds the target's SR, the target will never lose any SR or HP.

Good points, shouldn't be too bad though...your character can always program the droid themselves so it will only cost 1,000 credits for the skill packages...or use an R2 droid, let them take 10 and it is a 23 check...25 if you help...since their use comp is a base 13, you could just roll...odds are it will work. A small droid will have a good bonus to dex, and you can reprogram some feats for bonuses to hit...

it doesn't even need a huristic processor, just a basic one and be a type 4 droid...those don't have inhibitors. If it is the start of combat, and you have the drop on them, just ready an action for when your droid fires...aim...droid fires, then you fire immediately...problem solved...

About the shields...yeah...my DM might allow it, but I wasn't sure if it would be a 'normal' thing...it can be argued that if it can be done to vehicle shields...why not any shield...but probably not. I was saying that 'to be safe', any shield would provide essentially a few temporary hit points equal to the total of all the 'stages' of shield that it would reduce through. That is, if you assume that each attack will deal more damage than the current SR of the shield, then the shield will block (in the case of SR 20) 20+15+10+5 = 50damage. SR 15 shields would reduce 15+10+5 or 30 damage before failing.

Likely if you have a nice defense, you'll be able to avoid most fire and get under cover when you do get hit for a bit and recharge your shields...hmm...ya know...with evasion...one can pretty much wade through a field of autofire blasters if you have shields since at most you'll take 1/2 damage...unless there is a skilled soldier/elite trooper using burst fire at you.

[Mando Knight]

Droids that can level up need a heuristic processor, as that is what allows them to learn from experience and adapt. Basic processors do not allow use of untrained skills except for Climb, Jump, Perception, and Acrobatics.

However, you'll probably need that basic processor, as I reread the encumbrance rules, and the formula is (strength/2)^2, or for a tiny droid with a Strength roll of 10, that's (((10-4)/2)^2)/2, for 4.5 kg... not enough for even a basic tool arm... or even that heuristic processor... you'd need to ask your GM if you can give the droid an internalized weapon, in which I'd say that it can't be any larger than a hold-out blaster since it's a tiny droid...

Also, recharging your own shields for a droid is a DC 20 Endurance check, you'll need a level 6 droid with 14 Strength and training in Endurance if you want a 50% chance of succeeding. Alternatively, you could have a level 1 droid with both Skill training and Skill focus in Endurance, giving it a +10 competence bonus...

I still say that it's stretching it quite a bit to say that you can increase a droid's shield rating... especially since an SR 20 shield system requires a Large droid because of the power drain... for a vehicle, increasing the power like that is almost nothing, as it's already probably got a couple dozen times that much extra power... and the mass doesn't bother the ship much, as that would probably be another 10-20 kg on a 2000+ kg starship... but an extra 10-20 kg on a 80-200 kg droid is between 10-25% extra weight...

Furthermore, if you're depending on the shields of an evasive droid, watch out because the GM will probably throw out some extra Force users... Force Grip ignores shields and still works on droids (it crushes them instead of choking them...), and Battle Strike can be used to override the droid's advantage.

Either that, or he'll start sending out Elite Troopers. True Elites can reliably overcome most armor and Damage Reduction through heavier weapons, high BAB, and Greater Weapon Specialization (combined with its prerequisites, it gives a +2 attack bonus and a +4 damage bonus).

Or... ion. Ion weapons can obliterate a droid, as they increase the condition damage against mechanical objects, and a -2 penalty to all checks, attacks, and defenses is nasty. If the shields go down, even for a single round, an ion grenade barrage can obliterate your droid... 4d6 yields a maximum of 24 and an average of 14 damage, which is compared to your Damage Threshold before being halved. Every time one exceeds your Threshold...

[Starbuck_II]

1) In star wars saga how do skills go up per level?
2) Isn't wealthy, stupidly good?
3) What talents are must haves or too good or overpowered?
4) What ones suck or you should never take?

While I don't know Talents:
If you get Force powers:
Avoid Force Disarm for Force powers. Even Vader has only a 20% chance without using Force Point to use it on Han Solo. Using a Force point he has the chancde of +6. raising him to 50% chance.
Yes, a Level 19 has a 50% chance of using it on level 10's.

The power is almost worthless.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

hmm...weight would be a problem...though doesn't miniaturization cut down the weight of some items by at least some degree? Also...if a droid is built with a certian amount of equipment, I though that that was the base weight of the droid and that only equipment added after that was counted for encumbrance...so if you built a tiny droid with a mini blaster and a heuristic processor it wouldn't count against the weight limit for the small droid...

[Mando Knight]

OK, I was wrong... You do get a heuristic processor and 2 arms for free when you create your droid hero... and a character's custom droid could be considered a droid hero...

Oddly enough, the miniaturization increases the weight of certain items: the weight for many such items is multiplied by the cost factor, which is a x5 multiplier on a Tiny or Huge droid... I blame it on neutronium based nanotech. Whether or not it's actually neutronium, I don't care.

Of course, if you were to give it a blaster pistol, a tiny droid would have to wield it with both appendages... or require an expensive (and heavy) stabilized mount. If you were to use the two arms together as a mount for a blaster, I'd say that you would need to give it hands... a tool mount is meant for a single weapon the same size or smaller than the droid's...


Avoid Force Disarm for Force powers. Even Vader has only a 20% chance without using Force Point to use it on Han Solo. Using a Force point he has the chance of +6. raising him to 50% chance.

No, he's got Strong in the Force, so he rolls 3d8 and takes the best, so he has a chance of a +8 to the attack roll, which gives him an effective Use the Force +25 vs. Solo's effective 38 Reflex Defense (he's not flat-footed--he shot at Lord Vader without the Combat Reflexes feat) (Defense = 10 +12(level) +2(Dex bonus) +4(class bonus, Ace Pilot) +10(defense against disarm bonus) = 38)... Vader has to roll at least a 13... that's a 35% chance of success, even worse than what you stated... unless a Destiny Point can be used to auto-crit a disarm even if Force Disarm is used... that would explain his 3 Destiny points, even though he's level 19...

All in all, I think that either Force Disarm is nerfed, or Disarm attacks in general are too hard...

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Wow...that is so messed up that by a fluke of the rules the arm of a miniature droid costs as much and weighs as much as a colossal droid arm...the arm of a fine droid weighs more than a medium or large droid's entire body...wow...that is just stupid.

hopefully there is an eratta somewhere that gives the weights for smaller droids in a more reasonable way...

Edit: The errata did catch this...the weight per component for small droids and less is 2/cost multiplier. So, small droids don't get a break cause they are still big enough to use medium components, but tiny are 2/5, diminuative are 1/5 and fine are 1/10...that is much better.

[AnnShadow]

Well, you still have the problem that the droid is a Character that you cannot give orders to, unless, I suppose you are a crime lord PrC and it is a henchman/minion.

[Mando Knight]

The weight per component for small droids and less is 2/cost multiplier. So, small droids don't get a break cause they are still big enough to use medium components, but tiny are 2/5, diminuative are 1/5 and fine are 1/10...that is much better.

Yeah... I forgot to check the errata when I posted earlier... at least we know that it isn't neutronium nanotech:smalltongue:

The order thing isn't that hard to overcome... if the droid has a program in it that tells it to obey the orders of the sniper, then it'll be forced to obey. The droid can't have that high of a Will Defense compared to a hired slicer...

[Lemur]

And now for a cheese question...is it bad to make a character that will have gunslinger, bounty hunter, scoundral and take the feats Dastardly strike, Debilitating shor, and Hunter's mark while carrying around a tiny droid with 4 heroic levels (4 classes, all 1st level), one of them noble, and their talents retrained into noble talents to get inspire zeal.

I don't think that droid reprogramming works like that. You can reprogram the droid's talents, but it still needs to meet the prerequisites for those talents. You can only take talents from the class list of the particular class granting you the talent (barring Force talents for individuals with the Force Senstitive feat), so you shouldn't be able to reprogram the droid to have 4 noble talents when he only has 1 level in noble.

But even without the droid, you're still bringing a target down at least 3 condition levels.


As to the original post, the Jedi talent Resilience is practically worthless compared to the Force talent Equilibrium. Equilibrium does what Resiliance does, only better. It also happens to be available to any force sensitive individual, not just Jedi, so you can take the talent whenever any class gives you a talent. I'm not certain it's a "must have" talent (except maybe for those planning on going into Force Adept), just pointing out that it's an obviously and oddly superior talent in comparison to another.

Speaking of obviously superior things, Dodge is even more worthless in Saga, except as a prerequisite feat (and even the feats it qualifies you for aren't worth the trouble). It's unchanged from previous d20 products, only this time there are four other feats that grant you an equivalent bonus to Reflex defense- only towards everyone rather than a single target, and each of said feats grants you another benefit as well. The feats in question are Improved Defenses, and the three Martial Arts feats.

Also the Scout talent Evasion is, as usual, pretty damn good.