PDA

View Full Version : Complete Scoundrel



ReluctantReaper
2007-12-08, 06:41 PM
I was just wondering if anyone here could give me a laydown on what exactly is in this? Thanks for doing this, because I am wondering if i should get this, but dont really know for sure.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 06:48 PM
It's a candy-store of a book for roguelikes. There're a lot of feats that make playing skirmisher-type characters easier and/or worthwhile, as well as some interesting-yet-not-overpowered prestige classes. I'd say it's my favorite Complete.

Dode
2007-12-08, 06:49 PM
Complete Scoundrel is kind of a sequel to Complete Adventurer, only completely Rogue-based, and a grabbag of PrCs, alternate class features and feats in order to make other classes more rogue like. It also gives a considerable boost to the Rogue's options and mundane tools and equipment.

It is also notable for introducing a new mechanic: Skill Tricks. Skill Tricks are mechanically similar combat manuevers in the ToB (special abilities once per-min or more common, per encounter), only any class can access them by spending 2 skill points to purchase them.

Whether or not you should get this sourcebook depends on how interested you are in fleshing out thieves and scoundrels.

Xefas
2007-12-08, 06:50 PM
Stuff for Rogues, Bards, sneaky people, and anyone with extra skill points laying around.

So, if you're tired of everyone spending their skill points on the same 3-4 skills every game, and not using half of them more than once or twice, this is good for you.

If you think your Rogues are getting too routine to play, this is good for you.

streakster
2007-12-08, 06:53 PM
Also contains the Master of Masks and Malconvoker - very fun classes to play.

Dode
2007-12-08, 06:54 PM
Ah Malconvoker, the "John Constantine Class"

Amiria
2007-12-08, 06:55 PM
Why don't you take a look at the excerpts ?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a

You can also find some reviews out there, like this one:

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12936.phtml

AmberVael
2007-12-08, 07:04 PM
Complete Scoundrel: A Player's Guide to Trickery and Ingenuity.

Complete Scoundrel is the follow up to Complete Adventurer. It focuses on expanding the more skill based classes, and giving options to other classes to become more skill based.

It introduces a number of new PrCs, of which the ever controversial Gray Guard is the most well known (infamous). Most of them are not especially outstanding in terms of mechanics, but they certainly add some unique abilities (Master of Masks) which you can pick up.

It also brings out some new feats- most of the general feats focus on combining the features of two classes and are pretty much exactly like the ones in Complete Adventurer. There are a large selection of feats targeted at sneak attack based characters as well, and bardic music abilities.
Complete Scoundrel created a new type of feat, the Luck feat. The luck feats are intended to give you an advantage by being able to reroll certain rolls (Attack, saves, skill checks) or possibly do a few other things, but in practice they don't stand out too much. Interesting, but nothing to oo and ah over.

The most interesting mechanic created by Complete Scoundrel are Skill Tricks. Basically, they are minor feats usable once per encounter or so that you spend minimal skill points to get. Very interesting, some are handy, some might as well be something you could do.

After that there are some new spells, a few new pieces of equipment (non magical and magical) and then a bit of fluff (organizations and the like) in the back. Nothing especially outstanding, in my opinion. I'd make better in my own time.

SurlySeraph
2007-12-08, 07:14 PM
Ah, my favorite supplement. It's pretty well balanced, and I highly recommend it.

Kizara
2007-12-08, 07:23 PM
To the OP:

Ask yourself two questions:

1) Do you enjoy playing bards & rogues? Do you desire more material to support them and more abilities for them?

2) Do you like the direction recent suppliments (Complete Champion, Tome of Battle, Dungeonscape) have taken the game? Do you feel these are good and balanced suppliments?

If the answer to both is "yes" for you, then you will likely enjoy Complete Scoundrel.

DraPrime
2007-12-08, 07:25 PM
It's my third favorite complete book (CW is first and CM is second). It basically lets you make characters more rogue-ish through roleplaying and mechanics. The prestige classes are pretty nice. I really like the skill tricks, which are basically amazing stunts (like running up a wall) that you can do in exchange for losing 2 skill points.

Frosty
2007-12-08, 07:59 PM
I haven't gotten it yet, but I wonder if there are any worthwhile skill tricks for a Beguiler.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 08:02 PM
I haven't gotten it yet, but I wonder if there are any worthwhile skill tricks for a Beguiler.

There's a bunch. A lot of the Manipulation and Magic ones are really great for them.

KIDS
2007-12-08, 08:02 PM
Complete Scoundrel is well written, balanced, fun, inspiring and awesome. Apart from its magic items section which is just silly goofy, it has a rust monster massager if you can believe it...

Anyways, it is rogue themed, but pretty much any character can find a use for skill tricks, the classses are good even if a bit underpowered and it has a lot of RP advice for scoundrels, some better some worse but I generally like those little stories that read like a novel as whole. All in all, one of the better books and Completes out there and it continues the positive trend of WotC during last year or so...
8/10

Rachel Lorelei
2007-12-08, 08:13 PM
I haven't gotten it yet, but I wonder if there are any worthwhile skill tricks for a Beguiler.

I'm playing a Beguiler, and I love Conceal Spellcasting and False Theurgy.

And you can even do them together, and just *happen* to (intentionally) fail Conceal Spellcasting's Sleight of Hand check...

Of course, it turns out that Conceal Spellcasting is something you can *automatically* try to do with Sleight of Hand, no skill trick needed--it's a special use of the skill; it was in Races of Stone, but now it's in the Rules Compendium (most recent source).

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 08:17 PM
I'm playing a Beguiler, and I love Conceal Spellcasting and False Theurgy.

And you can even do them together, and just *happen* to (intentionally) fail Conceal Spellcasting's Sleight of Hand check...

Of course, it turns out that Conceal Spellcasting is something you can *automatically* try to do with Sleight of Hand, no skill trick needed--it's a special use of the skill; it was in Races of Stone, but now it's in the Rules Compendium (most recent source).

Well, yes, but the skill trick makes it always work.

Rachel Lorelei
2007-12-08, 08:19 PM
Well, yes, but the skill trick makes it always work.

How so? The skill trick requires a Sleight of Hand check opposed by Spot just like the special skill use does...

Fax Celestis
2007-12-08, 08:33 PM
How so? The skill trick requires a Sleight of Hand check opposed by Spot just like the special skill use does...

Really? Huh.

Rachel Lorelei
2007-12-08, 08:37 PM
Really? Huh.

Yep.

False Theurgy, on the other hand, has no opposed check. To Spellcraft and other such things, it appears to be whatever spell you say it is (within the same-level restriction, but you can make it look like a Heightened or otherwise metamagicked lower-level spell, I guess), period, no ifs, no buts (Benjamin is honest as coconuts).

Dhavaer
2007-12-08, 08:47 PM
(Benjamin is honest as coconuts).

I am not.
I'm honest as strawberries, at the very least.

Rachel Lorelei
2007-12-08, 08:54 PM
I am not.
I'm honest as strawberries, at the very least.

I hear de steel drum sing its song--
It's singin' Mahn, you know you got it wrong!
I hear de voice of de yellow bird
Singin' in his tree, Dis is quite absurd!
Oh yes (oh yes),
It's true (it's true)!
Benjamin is straighter den de big bamboo!
No ifs (no ifs),
No buts (no buts),
Benjamin is honest as coconuts!

Egill
2007-12-08, 09:11 PM
Just another voice approving Complete Scoundrel.

Not that I, in any way, endorse such behavior, but I have heard that a certain web resource can be accessed by typing "rapidsearch" into google. Pure hearsay says that said website may or may not have links to a variety of pdfs. I once overheard some folks talking about how Complete Scoundrel is available in pdf form on said website, which may or may not exist. I do not condone any actions in response to said overheard mutterings, and I cannot attest to their verity.

Kizara
2007-12-08, 09:30 PM
Just another voice approving Complete Scoundrel.

Not that I, in any way, endorse such behavior, but I have heard that a certain web resource can be accessed by typing "rapidsearch" into google. Pure hearsay says that said website may or may not have links to a variety of pdfs. I once overheard some folks talking about how Complete Scoundrel is available in pdf form on said website, which may or may not exist. I do not condone any actions in response to said overheard mutterings, and I cannot attest to their verity.

Word of advice: Mod's around these parts aren't stupid, and posting something like that is still going to earn you an infraction.

I mean, I appreciate the thought and aren't trying to shoot you down, but you need to mind yourself around here and they (the mods, some posters) take copyright stuff alot more seriously then some folks.

Pironious
2007-12-09, 06:57 AM
I dunno, I found Scoundrel disappointing really. Skill Tricks are nice, and there was I think all of one feat my at the time character could use well. I was really expecting more for rogues in there than what I found, to be honest.

Grynning
2007-12-09, 07:22 AM
I like CS simply because of it's honest effort to inject some real variety into the game instead of just collecting a bunch of PrC's that are poorly-fluffed rehashes of stuff from other books (which is how a lot of WoTC splatbooks turn out). It has Luck Feats, Ambush Feats, Skill Tricks, some "creative" (if possibly goofy, as someone already pointed out) items, and some nifty classes. I'm a big fan of the Fortune's Friend,the Spellwarp Sniper, and the Uncanny Trickster (the only class I've ever seen that actually advances non-magical base class features). There are worse things you could spend 30 bucks on.

goat
2007-12-09, 09:29 AM
Ah Malconvoker, the "John Constantine Class"

It should have nicotine addiction as a prerequisite.

ReluctantReaper
2007-12-09, 09:30 AM
Another question...slightly off topic, but didnt want to start a new thread.

For the Wildshape with druids, what level do you get it at exactly? Also how many different animals can you change into? I have been thinking of playing this for a while, but i am not 100% sure I want to.

kjones
2007-12-09, 10:07 AM
Luck feats are fun; I'm surprised nobody's mentioned them yet. It's a feat tree that allows rerolls on various things depending on what you take. Most usefully, you can do this "after the fact". It's fun to play a luck-focused character; you end up pulling off impossible stuff all the time.

Leon
2007-12-09, 10:08 AM
Another question...slightly off topic, but didnt want to start a new thread.

For the Wildshape with druids, what level do you get it at exactly? Also how many different animals can you change into? I have been thinking of playing this for a while, but i am not 100% sure I want to.

5th, Number of Animals is limited by your Wildshapes per day (which advances at a set rate per level)

....
2007-12-09, 11:03 AM
I like hidden blades.

And I got that book specifically so I could get the feat that would make my swashbuckler and rogue levels stack.

Hazkali
2007-12-09, 11:09 AM
I like CS, makes for interesting characters. However, if you like the Luck feats then the Luck-themed PrC is the way to go, as Luck feats come into their own when you have a lot of them.

Leon
2007-12-09, 12:34 PM
Fair Fights are for Suckers

Stabby
2007-12-09, 02:40 PM
Fair Fights are for Suckers

Amen!

Seriously, my Rogue/Swash/Duelist Errol Flynn was finally fully finished when I got CS. Its a fun book. Not particularly overpowered, just fun

Overlard
2007-12-09, 08:03 PM
What I like about it is that it's not concerned about upping the power like so many splatbooks. What it introduces are fun yet minimal changes to established systems, cool ideas and interesting items. What more could you really ask for?

BardicDuelist
2007-12-09, 08:30 PM
It was also, unlike so many WoTC books, a fun read.