Readying action question.

[Tyger]

OK, so a readied action interrupts the action that you are well, interrupting, and then, so long as the person you interrupted is still able, their action then goes off.

A: I ready to hit him if he tries to hit me.
B: I'm going to hit A.
A: Wait! I get to swing first! *rolls and hits. Damage does not kill B*
B: I get to hit him now, right? Good! *rolls and hits*

Right?

Now, what if the scenario really changes? What if A's readied action doesn't prevent B from doing what he was going to do, but really makes him not want to do whatever it was? Is B already committed to that action? Can he stop and say "Nope, changed my mind. I'm going to do something else instead."

A: I ready an action to cast a spell if he starts to cast a spell.
B: I cast Fireball centered there, right on top of A.
A: I interrupt and cast Baleful Transposition, transposing myself and C. *C rolls Will save and fails*
B: Ummm... does that mean I hit C instead?
C: Dang. Roll low man, I'm already messed up!
DM: Let's see what the rules folks over at OotS say first, OK!

So, what happens? The area for the Fireball is still available, and there is nothign preventing B from doing exactly what he originally wanted to do.

[DraPrime]

Since nothing's actually stopping B, then he can cast the fireball. Whether he wants to or not, and what's going to be the result of casting the fireball are a different matter.

[tyckspoon]

I'm not certain if the rules even mention anything about this, but since the readied action very explicitly happens before the triggering action, I think the most sensible thing to do is to let B change his own action in response. He could simply re-target the fireball at A; after all, he hasn't actually cast it yet, so none of the decisions like where to aim it or what caster level to cast it at have really been made yet.

[Azerian Kelimon]

A readied action seems like a conditional immediate action prepared beforehand. And since when have you been able to respond to immediate actions?

[martyboy74]

I'm pretty sure that they're locked in.

By the way, the readied action that you gave was not allowable; they have to specify what spell they're going to use.

[tyckspoon]

A readied action seems like a conditional immediate action prepared beforehand. And since when have you been able to respond to immediate actions?

Since the readied action happens before the triggering action, and the triggering action is 'starts to cast a spell'. In order for the readied action to happen before that, it must go off before any spellcasting at all has actually been done. Which requires the readied action to have some foreknowledge of the future, so we probably just have another example of really bad writing on WotC's part here and the example trigger should really be something more like 'while he is casting a spell.' In that case, I would say the spellcaster is stuck with whatever spell he was casting, but would still be allowed to change any parameters that are set at the time of casting, like target.

[Tyger]

So I guess the answer is... there is no RAW literal answer and you need to interpret it? :)

Dang.

Well, I'll have to think it over more carefully.

[Talic]

I generally allow it like this.

Person A attacks Person B.
Person B has a readied action to Trip the first person to attack him.
Readied action triggers, Person B successfully trips person A.

Now, since the action directly affects the mechanics of person a's actions, I offer 2 options. Person A's mind was kinda focused on this action, and he was likely caught off guard. So he can either follow through with the original action, or he can choose no action at all.

If the person has combat reflexes or makes a DC 20 Dex Check, I usually allow the most common sense reaction, such as, in this case, "Roll away" (5 foot move) or "Get up".

Keep in mind, there's nothing in RAW to support this, it's home brewed. By RAW, I'd say you have to keep your action, unless it's no longer possible to perform the action (casting vs a readied silence, for example, or charge vs. Tanglefoot bag), in which case, the action is lost.

[Mewtarthio]

The readied action interrupts the target right before the action is taken. The entire point of readying something is to ensure that the enemy gets interrupted and is forced to deal with a sub-par situation (otherwise, he'd have just cast baleful transposition on his own intitiative order). There's not enough time for the Wizard to change his mind.

[Curmudgeon]

OK, so a readied action interrupts the action that you are well, interrupting, and then, so long as the person you interrupted is still able, their action then goes off. Not usually, by the D&D rules. Most actions aren't really interrupted by readied actions; rather, they're preempted. D&D 3.5 doesn't require you to declare all your actions for a round in advance, so the only actions that are actually interruptible are those that last longer than usual and/or have special requirements.

Here are some actions that would interrupt actions already in progress:
I ready an action to move 10' perpendicular if anyone charges at me.
I ready an action to Dimension Door if someone makes a third melee attack at me.
I shoot my crossbow at an enemy who started casting a spell and hasn't finished yet.
Once someone starts a charge they're committed because it's a special full-round action. The same goes for a full attack after they've taken a second swing -- before that, it's indistinguishable from a standard action attack:
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack

After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action. If you ready an action to occur "when they make a second attack at me", and this triggers before that second swing -- was it really going to be an attack, or a feint using Improved Feint, or just your nervous overreaction? The provable fact is that they haven't yet made a second swing at that time, and thus, by the rules, aren't committed to a full attack yet. In contrast, if someone's been casting for more than a standard action (such as for a Summon Monster spell) you might well be able to abort their spell, depending on how much damage you do vs. their Concentration check.

D&D doesn't really have too many actions that can be interrupted. Readying an action "if they start casting a spell" means you saw them reach for their spell component pouch, and acted immediately. They haven't actually done any spellcasting at this point, and can't lose the spell because of your actions. And maybe they were actually reaching into the spell component pouch to draw a dagger (a material component for the Ring of Blades spell) to stab you. Unlike Contingency, which uses magic to see a little bit into the future, a readied action is purely a plan, relying on the mundane senses of the character. You can't ready an action to trigger on someone casting a still, silent spell -- there's nothing apparent to cause the readied action to occur (for exactly the same reason you can't use Spellcraft to identify that still, silent spell).

[Talic]

You can't ready an action to trigger on someone casting a still, silent spell -- there's nothing apparent to cause the readied action to occur (for exactly the same reason you can't use Spellcraft to identify that still, silent spell).

Yes, you can. The spellcraft DC is just phenomenal.

Point made though, readied actions may only be made to trigger on actions that the character performing the action can perceive.

However, you can interrupt the casting of a spell. Hence, the rules under concentration for being damaged while casting. The AoO provoked by casting, for example. You could time your readied action for "when XXX caster presents a spell component." Since that done during casting, your action will interrupt the casting. You must be merely precise.

Readying an action to attack the first person who speaks, for example, will technically hit the person before they speak. Most people use common sense here, as the character, at that point, cannot perceive the speaking of someone who hasn't done it yet.

Just as if you ready an action to shoot a crossbow at the opening of a door, by strict RAW, you hit the door before it's opened. Again, unless the character can perceive the future, it violates the most basic premise of a readied action. You cannot react to that which you cannot reasonably perceive. You can't react to a door opening before it opens, or a person speaking before they talk.

[....]

I'd say common sense dictates that you don't actually go before them, you just see them start to do whatever it is you were waiting for and then act faster, since you had a higher initiative, and were preparing for this moment.

In the example of the fireball and baleful transportation, I'd say that the wizard would still cast, since he was already starting the spell, which can't take more than 2-3 seconds to do, and had no idea that his target was about to magically switch places with someone else. If I was being a nice DM, I'd do something like, "Make a reflex save to swing your hand up and shoot the fireball into the air/against a wall."

[ZeroNumerous]

Uh.. On the topic of an interrupted fireball: You begin casting the spell. Your opponent pre-empts the little red bead of death by transposing with an ally. You finish casting the spell. You still haven't done what the spell states you must do:


You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst.

Since you haven't actually cast the spell in question, then you can still point your finger elsewhere. Just fire it off above him or toward your new target. You were interrupted during casting of the fireball, you weren't interrupted during firing off a little red bead.

[Attilargh]

For an amusing change of pace, I shall now post a link to a tangentially-related article about the Ready action in Star Wars Saga: Linky! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20071207jc108)

...And now I noticed it doesn't even address the question of a radically different situation. Oh well.

[Tyger]

Uh.. On the topic of an interrupted fireball: You begin casting the spell. Your opponent pre-empts the little red bead of death by transposing with an ally. You finish casting the spell. You still haven't done what the spell states you must do:



Since you haven't actually cast the spell in question, then you can still point your finger elsewhere. Just fire it off above him or toward your new target. You were interrupted during casting of the fireball, you weren't interrupted during firing off a little red bead.

Well, that's a question of interpretation as well. The pointing of the finger could be taken as the Somatic portion of the spell's requirement...

As is often the case, the question isn't covered by RAW and I'll have to talk it over with my players to see what they like / dislike about readying actions.

To use another example that I think has actually been answered somewhere:

A: Readies an action to move 10 feet to the left if B charges him.
B: *charges A*
A: *moves 10 feet to the left behind a statue*
B: Can no longer charge A, as A is not in a straight line from him.

So, does that mean that B never moved at all? Or can he still move but not attack? Or what does it mean? As A is no longer a legit target for the charge action, B can not charge him. But what happens to B's action, as technically, A moved prior to B actually charging.

Damned rules, always getting in the way of my fun. :smallbiggrin:

[Sylian]

"A: Readies an action to move 10 feet to the left if B charges him.
B: *charges A*
A: *moves 10 feet to the left behind a statue*
B: Can no longer charge A, as A is not in a straight line from him.

So, does that mean that B never moved at all? Or can he still move but not attack? Or what does it mean? As A is no longer a legit target for the charge action, B can not charge him. But what happens to B's action, as technically, A moved prior to B actually charging."

I'd say that B would charge, but A would jump out of the way a few seconds before the charge hits. B would spend the rest of the time stopping his charge, ending up at the same point where he would even if A didn't move.