Ideas for making non-caster/manifest/etc classes scale better?

[Promethean]

We all know that martial characters don't scale as well as caster/manifester/etc. I wanna take a crack at the dead horse in an upcoming campaign and would like help.

Some variant rules thoughts:

Class-Based Ability Score Scaling: Full-Casters(and Manifesters/etc) get an extra Ability Score point every four levels(as Default), Half casters and Quasi-casters(like Warlocks, Binders, Incarnum-users, Factotums, etc.) Get an Ability Score Point every other level, Non-casters(like Barbarians and Rogues) get an Ability Score Point every level, and Fighter + Monks get a special scaling of 2 Ability Score Points points every level.
Epic Ability Scores The ability score version of epic skill checks. Ability scores of 20+ give a superhuman attribute scaling the way strength doubles every 5 points.

Str: In addition to normal Carry-Weight scaling, characters 20 Points of strength may wield weapons 1 size category larger. At every 10 points after 20(30, 40, etc) their maximum weapon size increases by 1.(This attribute is negatively affected by size. Large creatures begin the above scaling at 25, Huge at 30, Gargantuan 35, Colossal 40.).
Dex: At 20 Points the user gets an extra attack and doubles their movement speed. Movement speed is doubled Again every 5 points after 20(25, 30, 35, etc.) and they gain an extra attack every 10 points(30,40,etc)
Con: At 20 attribute points, all physical recovery times are Halved(recover [Level] hp or 1 ability damage every 12 hours of rest, Sleep time halved. This stacks with any medicine skill checks, but Does not apply to spell-slot recovery) and character either gains DR 1/- or increases and existing DR by 1. Every 5 points halves recovery times again and every 10 points gives another DR increase. (Is affected by size as above).
Int: At 20 points, the character is able to multi-task. They may make 2 skill checks within a skill's allotted time-frame(must be different skills). Every 5 point increase adds another Skill check the character can multi-task
Wis:At 20 points, Profession and Crafting times are Halved. Every 5 point increase halves them again.
Cha:Is already strong enough.

Armor is Upgraded:Worn armor now adds it's item hit points as a temporary hit-point threshold that must be emptied before the character takes proper HP damage(Bleed Damage, non-Lethal damage, and attack damage to things other than HP ignore this). The Item Hardness of an armor's material acts as normal for absorbing damage to the Armor. All of the above is affected by magic enhancement(Normal steel plate armor adds 40 hp with Hardness 10, +5 steel plate armor adds 90 hp with Hardness 20).
Magic resistance: Spell resistance now functions more like DR and Elemental resistance. A creature's magic resistance is now subtracted from the caster level of any SR:Yes spell rather than making a caster level check, While SR:No spells now must make a caster level check if the character's caster level is lower than the target's SR. When regarding transparency, Psionics function as above against psi resist. However, Spells used against Psi Resist perform caster level checks as if using the core rules(Caster check against PR if SR:Yes, ignore PR if SR:No), and Vice Versa with Psionics vs magic resistance.
Skill Monkeys: Skill Monkey classes like Rogue and Bard have their skill caps increased to Level +5 rather than level +3.


Do you think the above rules help the scaling issue or am I missing something?

[Darg]

If I want to play a more high powered game, I just make the fighters pick casting PRCs at 6 or make eldritch knight more accessible by lowering the spell level requirement.

[Promethean]

If I want to play a more high powered game, I just make the fighters pick casting PRCs at 6 or make eldritch knight more accessible by lowering the spell level requirement.

I want to give non-casters a buff that doesn't require them to become better casters.

[Telok]

Double skill points, one feat a level, let many/most feats stack or be takem multiple times. If using ToB have characters without casting count as initator level equal to class levels.

[Bohandas]

What if you let martials and 4 level casters gestalt together, half casters gestalt with NPC classes, and full casters not gestalt at all

[Logalmier]

I think the issue here is that you're mostly just making numbers bigger, which isn't the problem martials have. Martials already have big numbers, they just have very little in the way of utility or variety, things that in this game are very powerful. The utility you propose (halving crafting times for example) is marginal and just not very useful, unless you're talking about repeatedly halving until you're chucking out 20 chairs per round, which could be fun, if silly. The pure number bloat will just make your job as DM more difficult, as you either watch your out-of-the-book monsters get insta-chunked even harder than they already do with just a modicum of baseline optimization, or you invest the time to go through all your enemies and bloat their numbers as well, ending up essentially where you began.

I'm not sure if this is the advice you're looking for, but I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel here. Good solutions to this problem have already been made. Use something like Tome of Battle or Spheres of Might. Put a ceiling on caster power by playing E6 or using Spheres of Power. That sort of thing.

[Promethean]

I think the issue here is that you're mostly just making numbers bigger, which isn't the problem martials have. Martials already have big numbers, they just have very little in the way of utility or variety, things that in this game are very powerful. The utility you propose (halving crafting times for example) is marginal and just not very useful, unless you're talking about repeatedly halving until you're chucking out 20 chairs per round, which could be fun, if silly. The pure number bloat will just make your job as DM more difficult, as you either watch your out-of-the-book monsters get insta-chunked even harder than they already do with just a modicum of baseline optimization, or you invest the time to go through all your enemies and bloat their numbers as well, ending up essentially where you began.

I'm not sure if this is the advice you're looking for, but I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel here. Good solutions to this problem have already been made. Use something like Tome of Battle or Spheres of Might. Put a ceiling on caster power by playing E6 or using Spheres of Power. That sort of thing.

Martials have big damage numbers I agree, but I want to give them more access to things more in line with Epic skill checks.

I like how epic skill checks allowed things like having the balance skill high enough to run on water or being able to hide in plain sight in an open field(though I hate the bloated DC requirements). Generally making it so that superhumanly skilled individuals were able to compete with magic in their areas of expertise through of shear skill alone rather than needing magic themselves(like mythical/folk heroes such as atalanta, orion, paul bunyan, etc.). I wanted to expand on that by bringing back exceptional ability score bonuses, something that was originally part of D&D in 1e and 2e.

I like initiators, but they aren't what I mean. They're more like casters in funny hats than an attempt to make martials more superhuman.

[AvatarVecna]

Double the number of skill points per level, wider class skill lists, epic skill DCs are lowered by your class level, more bonus feats, upgrade feats to be worth taking, way more hit points, fast movement (so some for fighter, more for monk), full attack on move. That'd be a decent start.

[Prime32]

One simple change:

In place of an initiative check, you make an unarmed attack roll.

[Doctor Despair]

Here's something I've been waiting to use in a campaign along these lines:


Player characters may choose at character creation to be magic-inept. This means they are unable to cast spells or manifest powers; it does not preclude them from activating magic or psionic items. If they take it, they compensate for that lack of magic power in other ways; at each level up, if their cumulative base attack bonus would increase by 1, they also gain additional class features as if they had gained a level in fighter (including bonus feats, proficiencies, and, at their option, any alternative or variant class features or substitution level class features for which they are eligible). Additionally, such characters who do not have a recovery method for maneuvers they initiate may recover any maneuvers as a warblade does. Once this feature is gained, it can never be lost or removed under any circumstances.


When making a skill check for which an armor check penalty of 0 or higher would apply, if it is a class skill, characters may choose to use either their actual ranks or their base attack bonus to calculate their bonus. If it is not a class skill, characters may choose to use either their actual ranks or half their base attack bonus to calculate their bonus.

[Maat Mons]

I’ll echo the sentiment that numeric increases aren’t what’s needed.

Raising the frequency of ability score increases doesn’t address the disparity between SAD classes and MAD classes. In fact, you will likely just widen the gap between those who specialize in one stat, and those who attempt to dabble in a mix of stats.

How would the option to wield bigger weapons interact with things that specify “appropriately sized weapon?” For example, reach weapons only double your natural reach if they’re “appropriately sized.” Would choosing to use a larger weapon preclude gaining the benefits of a reach weapon?

If I’m reading the armor changes right, anyone wearing armor is immune to HP damage until the armor is sundered? So, either a player will end a fight having taken no damage, or they’ll end a fight with their armor destroyed? Considering a typical smith takes several weeks to craft a set of full plate, this could add a lot of down time between adventures. Also, trying to keep yourself stocked with magic armor will become very expensive if the DM has to destroy a suit of armor every combat to make the player’s feel threatened.

Typically, having SR 11 means a 1st level mage has a 50% change to affect you with each spell. If you instead subtract SR from caster level, that means you’d need at least a caster level of 12 to affect someone with a spell. Otherwise your effective caster level would be zero or less, and the spell would fizzle.

How does that thing about Rogues and Bards having a higher skill cap interact with multiclass character? Is one level of Rogue or Bard sufficient to enjoy the higher cap on all levels in other classes?

Almost every epic skill use could have been implemented as a class feature or feat instead. If you want some people to have superhuman stealth, you can give Hide in Plain Sight to the appropriate classes. If you think everyone should have the option to access it, you can make a feat that gives the same benefits as the Hide in Plain Sight class feature.

[pabelfly]

Pathfinder 2e had a solution to ability score increases that I really liked and stole for my 3e game:

You get three ability score increases, rather than one. These ability scores need to go for different scores, rather than the same ability score.

If your ability score is 16 or less, you add 2. If it's over 16, you add 1.

[Promethean]

I’ll echo the sentiment that numeric increases aren’t what’s needed.

Raising the frequency of ability score increases doesn’t address the disparity between SAD classes and MAD classes. In fact, you will likely just widen the gap between those who specialize in one stat, and those who attempt to dabble in a mix of stats.

I wanted to shorten the gap by giving the more typically MAD classes more ability points. The only SAD classes I'm aware of are full casters, so they shouldn't be getting any boost from the changes to increases. Monk on the other hand is the poster child for MAD, and Fighter is just the signature class for players trying to fix D&D rules


How would the option to wield bigger weapons interact with things that specify “appropriately sized weapon?” For example, reach weapons only double your natural reach if they’re “appropriately sized.” Would choosing to use a larger weapon preclude gaining the benefits of a reach weapon?

I would rule that anything that allows you to wield the larger weapon without penalties would also make the weapon count as appropriately sized for any reach features.



If I’m reading the armor changes right, anyone wearing armor is immune to HP damage until the armor is sundered? So, either a player will end a fight having taken no damage, or they’ll end a fight with their armor destroyed? Considering a typical smith takes several weeks to craft a set of full plate, this could add a lot of down time between adventures. Also, trying to keep yourself stocked with magic armor will become very expensive if the DM has to destroy a suit of armor every combat to make the player’s feel threatened.

Point taken. The rule was meant to make actual armor more useful that stacking a bunch of magic bonuses, But I guess the system self-balanced back to where it started.
Not sure how to address that to make it work.



Typically, having SR 11 means a 1st level mage has a 50% change to affect you with each spell. If you instead subtract SR from caster level, that means you’d need at least a caster level of 12 to affect someone with a spell. Otherwise your effective caster level would be zero or less, and the spell would fizzle.

Honestly, that's the intention. I've DMed a number of games with experienced players, and I've not once seen monster SR matter to one when they play a caster. I feel like the SR system just fails entirely at what earlier magic resistance and spell level immunity mechanics were doing.



How does that thing about Rogues and Bards having a higher skill cap interact with multiclass character? Is one level of Rogue or Bard sufficient to enjoy the higher cap on all levels in other classes?

I'd say the cap increase only applies to the levels they took rogue/bard in. If a level 5 rogue with 10 in disable device took a level in wizard for whatever reason, then they wouldn't be able to put anymore points into their disable device skill until they took enough wizard levels that their Level +3 was higher or they took another level of rogue/bard/etc. Prestige classes that advance rogue/bard/etc features should also count as level in those classes for the sake of the skill cap increase.



Almost every epic skill use could have been implemented as a class feature or feat instead. If you want some people to have superhuman stealth, you can give Hide in Plain Sight to the appropriate classes. If you think everyone should have the option to access it, you can make a feat that gives the same benefits as the Hide in Plain Sight class feature.

Not a fan of that idea at all honestly.
I like the idea of someone with enough ranks in a skill being able to pull off mythical feats, simply because that's the level of skill those ranks are suppose to represent. My only problem with the epic skill checks is that they ranks required are Waaaay too High
The guy with 15-20 ranks in a skill isn't joe-shmoe, they Can't be. The level of people with those ranks left behind superhuman a while ago.
The fact that high level martial classes are held to the standards of stuck-at-level-1 IRL humans until Epic is a weird game-ism that goes against the logic of the setting itself and the history of D&D's mechanics before 3e.
Heck player characters are supposed to be the at, or close to, the peak of Human(or whatever race) At Level 1. That's what an 18 ability score and 4 ranks in a skill represent. The level 5 nobody of a guard in a remote village would be stepping into the beyond human range by IRL standards.

[Darg]

I want to give non-casters a buff that doesn't require them to become better casters.

Well, I've been wanting to overhaul the skill system to allow for more superhuman feats and make use of different action types. For example a lot of the epic usages could definitely be greatly reduced in DC and +DC modifications can be used to reduce the action type like +10 for standard to move, +10 for move to swift, and +10 for swift to immediate for a total of +30 for standard to immediate. This would also include increasing skill points per level based on 2 factors: lack of access to spell/maneuver/power levels and if the class is an expert type.

[Logalmier]

Not a fan of that idea at all honestly.
I like the idea of someone with enough ranks in a skill being able to pull off mythical feats, simply because that's the level of skill those ranks are suppose to represent. My only problem with the epic skill checks is that they ranks required are Waaaay too High
The guy with 15-20 ranks in a skill isn't joe-shmoe, they Can't be. The level of people with those ranks left behind superhuman a while ago.
The fact that high level martial classes are held to the standards of stuck-at-level-1 IRL humans until Epic is a weird game-ism that goes against the logic of the setting itself and the history of D&D's mechanics before 3e.
Heck player characters are supposed to be the at, or close to, the peak of Human(or whatever race) At Level 1. That's what an 18 ability score and 4 ranks in a skill represent. The level 5 nobody of a guard in a remote village would be stepping into the beyond human range by IRL standards.

Maybe implement a system like Pathfinder skill unlocks (but not terrible)? Something like "for every 5 ranks, you gain the ability to apply this skill to increasingly superhuman tasks."

So just like for stealth, just off the top of my head:

5 ranks: you gain the ability to hide in plain sight.

10 ranks: you gain the ability to disappear from people's memories

15 ranks: no one can even write down your name anymore

20 ranks: you can now hide from Death

And come up with four of those for every skill.

The only issue with this is that it sounds like you're trying to gate "superhuman skill usage" to non-casters by giving them number boosters that casters don't get, which presumes that what matters are skill DCs. What if you just capped the amount of skill ranks different classes get? I like the idea of giving skillmonkeys accelerated skill progression. Maybe have it work in reverse too, and cripple the extent to which casters can invest in skills? You could have something like:

Skillmonkeys: 100% skill progression, capping at 20
Martials: 75% skill progression, capping at 15
Casters: 50% skill progression, capping at 10

Essentially turn skill ranks into BAB.

[NichG]

Agreeing with those who say 'its not the numbers, its the lack of versatility'. Also in terms of scaling, the thing you'd need to really get 'quadratic non-casters' would be to have something that the character could do in-character to increase their power even if they entirely stopped gaining XP. With wizards, thats being able to go scroll-collecting and spell-trading with your buddies. Additionally, casting PrCs generically have an 'advances casting' aspect which is like getting a bit of gestalt. Some PrCs advance sneak attack dice or monk unarmed damage, but in general that sort of 'feature that can logically grow on its own even as you take PrCs' is much more shallow for non-casters than for casters, so doing something about that would be useful.

I'm going to use a shorthand here where each class has an 'Effective X level' that scales the 'Scaling class features', and that Effective X level is itself advanced by any PrC that satisfies a certain criterion. All Scaling Class Features should be obtained by Lv6 of the base class. After Lv6, these classes will gain 'Bonus Features' at some regular interval. I'm not going to design these to want a capstone that would force players to totally avoid PrCs to get it - the stuff after Lv6 will be intentionally more just about diversifying options.

Rather than re-treading the fighter, lets make a few distinct niches which can each do combat in their own way but aren't fundamentally about being 'the martial'. Starting with 'The Trapper':


Skill points: 4+Int
Class skills: Disable Device, Open Locks, Spot, Listen, Search, UMD, Knowledge(Dungeoneering), Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(Arch&Engineering), Forgery, Disguise, Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Appraise
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Reflex Good

Base features:

- Trapfinding (as Rogue)
- Trap Sense (as Rogue)

Scaling class features:

- Effective Trapper Level (ETL): Any PrC with 3/4 BAB and no casting progression also advances ETL

- Dynamic Traps: Once per day per ETL, the character can improvise a temporary trap using a combination of Trigger and Effector that they have learned (they may also choose a 'null' Effector that does nothing). Trapper traps by default have No Reset. Improvising a trap is a Standard Action, and can be done in advance or on the fly as the character wishes. The character may only have as many of these traps as their ETL at a given time - going over, it is presumed that they cannibalize leftover traps in order to make the materials for new ones. Trapper improvised traps are noticeably different than permanent traps, and generally cannot be sold (treat hiring a Trapper to set Traps as being similar to hiring a caster to cast a spell, rather than basing it off of the gp value of the traps created). Traps created by this character have a save DC equal to 10+Int mod+EML/2 (regardless of spell level if the trap emulates a spell), and a detection/disarm DC 10 points higher than this. Attack bonuses of the Trapper's traps are set to ETL+Int mod. Caster Level of spells is set to the Trapper's ETL, even if that would not normally be a valid CL for a given spell. A Trapper can craft a permanent form of any trap which they can make via Dynamic Traps, but this costs gold and time as per the usual crafting rules. While this is status quo for standard traps, this can be advantageous when it comes to traps made with features from Trap Tricks.

- Retroactive Trapping: Once per encounter plus 1 per 4 ETL, the character may as a standard action choose any square within 60ft of their position that is both unoccupied and sufficiently solid that it is walkable. Upon using this ability, they have retroactively prepared a trap from their inventory in that location (the player should write down the location without informing the DM and place it face-down, then flip it if the trap would be triggered).

'Bonus' features:

- At first level, the Trapper gains the Location Trigger. At levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 a Trapper may learn a new Trigger.

- Every level, the Trapper may learn a new Effector of CR up to their Trapper Class Level (not ETL). Pick a trap from the Traps list, remove trigger and reset, and just use the raw effect. Trappers can also learn Effectors from traps they find in the wild by first successfully disarming the trap, and then rolling a second successful Disable Device check against the trap's DC. This check destroys the trap materials if failed.

- Every 2 levels, a Trapper may learn a 'Trap Trick' from the following list:
-- Manual Reset: The trapper's traps can now be reset by a standard action a number of times equal to ETL/3
--- Automatic Reset: Requires Manual Reset. The trapper's traps now reset themselves up to ETL/3 times.
-- Gotcha: The trapper can use Retroactive Trapping as an Immediate Action to place a trap in a square that a creature is in the process of moving into. They still may not place traps in the location of a stationary creature
-- Mechanical Effector: The Trapper can invent traps which duplicate the effects of simple machines such as cranes, inclined planes, pumps, drills, pulleys, and the like. Rather than a separate Effector per each of these, this is a sort of 'universal machine' Effector. However, these Machine Traps cannot make attacks or directly cause damage on triggering - they purely exist to manipulate other aspects of the environment. As a rough rule of thumb, these traps can shift up to 100lbs of materials or objects per ETL per activation, and can displace such things no further than 10ft per ETL. Mechanical Effectors can be created to 'use' any existing usable feature such as opening/closing doors, pulling levers, pushing buttons, activating a use-activated or command word magic item, etc.
-- Spell Effector: The Trapper can invent a new Effector which casts any spell of level up to ETL/3 rounded down. The spell may not have any material components, XP, or sacrifice components, and all parameters of the spell must be fixed upon inventing the Effector. The Trapper must either have access to a person who can cast this spell, a scroll of the spell, a magic item which can cast the spell, or a spellbook containing the spell in order to author the Effector. However, the invention process does not consume these resources. Even without selecting this feature again, the Trapper may continue to invent additional Spell Effectors once per year (selecting this feature again lets them invent 2/year, 3/year, etc).
-- Ability Effector: The Trapper can invent a new Effector which duplicates a Su or Ex (but not Sp) standard action ability of a captive creature of CR less than their ETL-4. Even without selecting this feature again, the Trapper may continue to invent additional Ability Effectors once per year (selecting this feature again lets them invent 2/year, 3/year, etc).
-- Trap Self: As a Standard Action the Trapper can apply a trap to 'themself' which triggers against their attacker when they are attacked in melee.
-- Trap Bypass: The Trapper can choose to be immune to the effects of their own traps, first determined when each trap is placed. Toggling this immunity against a specific trap is a standard action.
-- Shifting Trap: As a Standard Action the Trapper can move one of their traps within 60ft to a different unoccupied position within 60ft. This re-hides the trap.
-- Scatter Traps: When using Retroactive Trapping, the Trapper can place 3 traps instead of just 1.
-- Displace Effect: The Trapper may indicate that a trap's area of effect is displaced up to 30ft away from the trap's actual location. This must be set when the trap is placed.
--- Turret Trap: Requires Displace Effect. The Trapper can make traps which center their effect on the nearest creature within 30ft of their location when triggered.
-- Friend Or Foe ID: The Trapper's Traps may be set to not trigger on allies. When combined with Turret Trap, the turret will ignore nearby allies when placing its effect.
-- Remote Control: The Trapper may trigger one of their placed traps as an Immediate Action. This works within 300ft.
-- Surveil Trap: The Trapper receives one round worth of visual and audio information from any of their traps when the trap is triggered.
-- Inspired Design: The Trapper may give their traps the benefit of any single one of the Trapper's feats or class abilities (including from other classes) - for example making a trap that attacks via Flurry of Blows when cross-classed to a Monk.
--- Genius Design: The Trapper's Traps gain the benefit of all of the Trapper's feats and class abilities. Requires Inspired Design.
-- Instant Disarm: The Trapper may attempt to Disable a trap as a Swift action.
-- Co-opt Trap: When successfully Disabling a trap, the Trapper may reactivate it as one of their own traps, optionally changing the trigger type or location.
-- Ethereal Trap: The Trapper can place their traps just slightly out of phase of the material plane, allowing them to be installed in arbitrary 5ft cube regions in space. Requires Trapper Class Level 7.
-- Emulated Effector: The Trapper may choose whether or not their Effectors count as magical or not. If they choose magical, then needing Trapfinding to disable them applies but they can be dispelled, disjoined, or deactivated by an AMF, and SR applies. If they choose non-magical then the trap does not permit SR, works in an AMF, cannot be dispelled, but can be disarmed by anyone using Disable Device. This *cannot* be applied to Spell Effector and Ability Effector, only to Mechanical Effector and the other standard Effectors based on published Traps.

[AntiAuthority]

Hm... First thing might be addressing the philosophy behind why casters are so powerful while martials/non-casters aren't... Basically, for narrative reasons, maybe try an immanent worldview (in summation, everything is supernatural, and the "mundane" world is just an extension of the supernatural world... So even regular people and objects have some divinity in them) rather than a transcendent philosophy (the supernatural is completely separate from the natural world.) If we go with this interpretation of RPG classes, it opens up a lot of possibilities for what these characters can accomplish.

Now, for actual abilities...

We could look at monsters with similar HD to the characters' levels for an idea and possibly tie them to the ability scores.

For example, say a Barbarian (around Level 6-7) gets Fast Healing at a set amount, and the higher their Constitution score is, the more they heal. So, Fast Healing 1 + CON Modifier (minimum 1). With the Fast Healing's base number increasing with level. Eventually it may be replaced by Regeneration after enough levels (or you get Regeneration as a separate ability...)

The characters are so skilled they're able to pick up any random weapon (or even a stick off the ground that fell from an ordinary tree) and be able to get a +1 bonus off it for the purposes of overcoming certain invulnerabilities and DR. Maybe have that increase every few levels as well. If a character with this ability gets hold of an actual magic weapon, they get another + beyond their normal one. Also let them be able to craft weapons that are capable of giving such abilities (though this may require a Feat or two... And enough ranks in Crafting... If casters have to use a feat to do it, I don't see why non-casters shouldn't.)

I'd also incorporate some of the things from Pathfinder's Mythic Tiers like Seven-League Leap, possibly at Level 8 at the latest. In this case, every X levels, the distance increases.

For AoE... The larger weapons could work, but also treating characters as gaining the reach benefit of larger size categories as well. For example... A Level 20 Paladin might have a normal sized sword and have the reach of a Colossal sized creature (how you want to flavor this is going to depend on the player). If you give his character a Colossal sized weapon... Then you could argue your character has a superior reach to actual Colossal creatures (to reflect your character has the sheer strength of such a character coupled with inhuman levels of skill, while normal Colossal creatures only have natural reach and normal levels of skill), though I'd understand why some may not want to include this. Anyway, the AOE aspect comes into play in that, your character makes an attack roll... All characters with a low enough AC and that are within your character's reach are applied damage.

If we include things like social skills...

I'd have it be passive in terms of how it works. For example, say a Rogue has a lot of ranks in Persuasion... The Rogue, simply by existing, is generally liked by characters with lower levels than they have ranks. The higher the ranks, the more likely a character is to listen to the Rogue to the point where it borders on fanaticism. You generally don't need to roll to convince significantly (keyword) lower level NPCs to do X or Y for you, you can just ask and they'll probably do it (assuming it's not blatantly suicidal like, "Elderly Dirt Farmer, go slap that Ancient Red Dragon surrounded by an army of Hill Giants For me... Please?") Though with enough ranks, you can tell people to do things that are obviously dangerous and they'd probably still try it to impress you... Rolling comes into play when you try this against a character that has enough levels to be around the same as how many ranks you have (for example, say you have 13 ranks in Persuasion, a Level 10 NPC might like you but... They're not going to just blindly follow whatever you say.) Good news, this would allow you to rally an army of lower level characters with relative ease though...

I'd extend this to other skills too, like Intimidate (though this may cause issues as people might genuinely be freaked out by your character when they're not trying to be threatening... Or the PC has enough understanding on how to be intimidating without accidentally being intimidating.)

There's probably more, but those are off the top of my head at the moment.

[rel]

As written, mundane characters have no class specific powers that help with non-combat challenges. This fix doesn't seem to address that, so I'm worried it will fall flat.

When the GM presents a challenge from one of the other two pillars of gameplay, something that isn't of the form 'remove X HP from thing Y' How does the martial character contribute?

The casters can comb through their long laundry lists of cosmic power for unique effects that no one else can replicate that might help. Things like teleport, or raise dead.
The martial brings... Skill checks I guess? Although the casters can also make skill checks. And between their generally higher mental stats and spells to buff skill checks, the casters might even be better at making skill checks.

[Darg]

Hm... First thing might be addressing the philosophy behind why casters are so powerful while martials/non-casters aren't...

Casters scale in power quadratically and gain the ability to skip their main balancing factor: daily resources. The DM has to go out of their way to discourage limited resource negation. It's like fighting a deck stacked against you all the time. I even use a unique RAW understanding that encourages spending resources on your allies and it still isn't quite enough to get casters to spend enough of their daily resources (though it does make combat encounters easier to balance between them.) Overall, it really just comes down to the fact that martials just don't get enough class features beyond level 5. Wiazards get more sustain and power with each level. A fighter gets... more feats to keep up with monster scaling. Once you hit level 2 you start becoming superhuman. While I don't think fighter should get things like flying or even more +AB/damage from improved class features, something to alter the world in some way should start happening by levels 7-9. Like you gaining access to followers as a class feature capable of giving you outsized value out of your WBL like recruiting access to crafters, politicians, spellcasters, etc. Though, this style of power gain requires a complete overhaul of the 5+ experience for all classes though. A paladin would instead get more backing from their church from all locations, a barbarian might start leading a clan, rangers could start getting access to beneficial intelligence from rangers across the realm. Monks could start a temple that a village starts growing around. Etc.

The tier 1 casters for example wouldn't get access to as expansive support. Wizards could get access to a wizard's tower and a few apprentices of varying levels. A cleric could get to found and lead a singular church. Druids can get a circle. Etc. Basically the idea here is that this support wouldn't be as far reaching, but still flavorful.

Just my thoughts. Then again I'm a fan of living worlds style play so it just makes sense to me that the powerful would by their nature attract people. I already do this style of thing in my games, but it would be nice to have a system in place to standardize the process.

[Troacctid]

I don't like your fixes, OP.
1. This rule collapses as soon as someone multiclasses. Also, having played in my share of campaigns with inflated point buy values and/or free LA, the gameplay of everyone having really high ability scores is just not that compelling, and creates more balance issues than it solves.
2. This rule is poorly targeted for fixing the problem you're trying to solve. It's too scattershot.
3 & 4. Neither of these rules gives a preference to non-casters over casters. Poorly targeted.
5. Again, falls apart as soon as someone multiclasses, but the bigger problem is that skill monkeys don't actually need higher caps, they mostly need more skill points.

Here are my suggestions for some changes that will help make weapon-users more satisfying to build and play.

1. Give more feats to the underpowered classes to make up for the dearth of class features they tend to suffer from after the early levels.
2. Give everyone, even casters, more skill points so that spells have less of a monopoly over interacting with noncombat encounters. (Maybe also make Able Learner a bonus feat for all characters for QOL purposes.)
3. Cut the prices of magic weapons so that they're more affordable at lower levels. Magic weapon prices scale way too quickly in this edition IMO.
4. End your campaign earlier. The longer you run, the greater the gap becomes between casters and non-casters.
5. Ban high-level spells. Just set a cutoff for the maximum spell level allowed in the campaign, and casters can't learn spells of that level or higher. (They can still gain slots of that level for use with metamagic versions of lower level spells.)

[Fero]

We are going to try a set up where people who stick with tier 3 or lower classes can gestalt but people who play Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes cannot. I can't say how well it will work, as we have not started yet. However, everyone seems to have fun, powerful, versatile builds, but w/o the crazy versatility of T1 and T2 classes.

[NichG]

Here's another shot at a quadratic non-caster niche, using the same basic format of having a core thing that scales on its own even when you switch to taking PrCs, as well as bonus stuff you can pick from if you choose to stick with the base class longer, and a thing you can do entirely outside of experience-based progression to grow the character. Also, as before, this is pointedly not a 'martial' character archetype specifically, in order to open up conceptual space that can cover multiple pillars of gameplay; and its not fixated on being 'mundane' but rather goes for scaling into mythological actions that are not 'casting spells'.

For this one, the Explorer, the main emphasis is in getting more out of the places the party goes to. The more exotic the places they have visited, the more the power of an Explorer scales even if they don't gain more levels. This takes the form of a network of discoveries that the Explorer class abilities give them different ways to exploit - first in the form of getting a supply of consumable items based on the places they have visited and progressing into ongoing character buffs themed after Planar Touchstones. Outside of this, the Explorer's main utility to a party is in an ongoing innate sense of 'where to go', as well as the ability to find even things that weren't planned to be there - biasing mechanics such as random encounters and random treasure rolls in the player's favor. The Explorer at high level also gains political leverage in a setting by having the ability to connect settlements and countries with the places they discover and visit to single-handedly provide country-wide benefits.


Skill points: 6+Int
Class skills: Appraise, Hide, Move Silently, Survival, Search, Spot, Listen, Knowledge (Any), Use Magic Device, Climb, Jump, Swim, Decipher Script
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Fort Good, Reflex Good

Base features:

- Track (as Ranger)

- Navigator: An Explorer can maintain one Goal plus one per 4 levels. By default, Goals must be specific static places the Explorer is aware of at least by reputation, though Bonus features can expand this. The Explorer is always aware of the direction to their Goals or, if a Goal is on another plane or otherwise not someplace where there is a 'direction' to it, the direction to the nearest portal or object that would enable the Explorer to get closer to that Goal. This ability does not take into account obstacles in the way or things such as normal physical mazes; however, it would solve a portal-based maze.

Scaling class features:

- Effective Explorer Level (EEL): Prestige Classes which have Survival as a class skill advance the character's Effective Explorer Level, which applies instead of Explorer Level for many of the scaling class features.

- Fast Travel: 1st level. An Explorer accelerates travel for a group of up to 5 creatures and/or medium-sized objects plus 5 per point of positive Wisdom modifier; larger-sized creatures or objects cost +2 per size category above Medium. The speed of overland travel for the group is increased by 25% per EEL, meaning that an Explorer with EEL 20 reduces travel times to 1/5 of normal.

- Environmental Combatant: 1st level. An Explorer gains bonuses when using the environment to fight. They may add their Wisdom modifier plus their EEL to any damage they cause indirectly via features of the environment - pushing an enemy off of a cliff, causing the ceiling to collapse, etc. This damage is the same type as the environmental damage, or if the environmental damage is of multiple types it adds to the type that deals the largest damage. Furthermore, the Explorer may set the save DC of environmental effects they force someone to interact with to 10+EEL/2+Wis modifier if that would be higher than the normal DC. The Explorer may choose whether or not to gain this benefit per-target, so for example if they were to set an oil slick on fire their enemies would take the extra damage but any allies caught in the fire could not (at their choice).

- Exploit Location (requires GM to make stuff!): 1st level. Whenever the Explorer has found a site of significance in a new locale, they may spend 1 day there to set up supply lines to that location to harvest its resources. This allows them to have access to a consumable item appropriate to the location that they can supply EEL uses of per week which they can stockpile or distribute - a poison made from local plants, a healing salve, bottled elemental water from a temple on the Plane of Water, etc. The item should scale with the CR of the location, roughly equivalent to the effects which a character of level equal to CR-3 could bring about per-day.

- Attune Location (requires GM to make stuff!): 3th level. Whenever the Explorer has found a site of significance in a new locale, they may additionally attune to that location. This grants them the option to adopt a particular permanent benefit appropriate to the location. Places in the Material might grant skill or saving throw bonuses, features such as Darkvision, or things of that scale; a strongly magical location might grant something like a permanent Arcane Sight or Spell Resistance; a holy site might grant a permanent Bless or Protection from Evil; magical architecture that grants an effect to those within it may instead grant that effect permanently to the Explorer; places among the Planes might grant elemental resistances or immunities, elemental damage on attacks, or other such things; Planar Touchstones grant their normal effects. An Explorer may sustain one such benefit at a time per 3 EEL and these may be swapped on a daily basis. Once an Explorer has attuned to a place, they do not need to revisit it in order to slot in its benefit, even if they have previously swapped it out for something else.

- Evoke Location: EEL 8+. The Explorer may as a full round action bring forth the Planar Traits and background effects of a location they have Attuned to a 100ft radius spherical area surrounding themselves. They can maintain this effect as long as they wish, but may only sustain one planar environment at a time. This does not bring about specific material, so e.g. evoking the environment of the Plane of Water would apply the Water-dominant trait to an area but would not specifically summon water (since bubbles of air can exist on the Plane of Water). Environmental Combatant does apply to any damage caused by this ability. Altered time traits in particular have a side-effect which requires caution but can also be exploited. When the current time within the Explorer's sphere deviates from the external time of the host plane by 1 round or more, there is a 50% chance per round that the Explorer will be ejected to the Astral Plane in order to resolve the tension.

- Ley Lines: EEL 12+. The Explorer gains the ability to travel instantaneously between locations they have attuned as a Full Round Action. Furthermore, they may connect these locations to a fixed structure in order to temporarily grant the benefit of that location to any who interact with the structure, for a duration of 1 hour after that interaction. The structure must be at least a Large-sized object, and must remain in place for at least a week for the Explorer to create the connection. If the object is subsequently moved, the connection is broken.

'Bonus' features (gain 1 every 2 levels of the base class):

- Bushwhacker: The Explorer becomes immune to movement penalties due to difficult terrain or other battlefield-scale features such as Grease, Web, or Solid Fog.
- Environment Mastery: With a week to prepare ahead of time, the Explorer can make themselves and those they travel with (same scaling as Fast Travel) immune to the passive background effects of any single specified environment for a period of 1 day per EEL. This could be something such as 'underwater' or 'lava' or 'the planar effects of the Gray Wastes'
- Bias Encounter: When the GM would roll a random encounter on an encounter table, the Explorer's player may ask the GM to roll twice and pick the result they prefer. If the GM does not use a table, they should provide two possibilities and the player may choose between them.
-- Fated Encounter: Instead of the above, the Explorer's player may directly pick the encounter out of the set of possible encounters. If the GM does not use a table, the player may say roughly what sort of encounter they wish it to be, and if it is plausible the GM should go along with that request as best possible.
- Refine Treasure: Once per collection of treasure, the player of the Explorer may change one property of one item discovered in such a way that the goldpiece value of the item would not be increased. For example, instead of finding a +1 Flaming Scimitar, the player may decide that they have found a +2 Scimitar, or a +1 Flaming Dagger.
-- Fated Treasure: The player of the Explorer may ask for a specific kind of item (e.g. 'a magic sword' or 'a spell scroll', not 'a +5 vorpal flaming glaive') to exist in any sufficiently large collection of treasure that the GM would have to generate things on the fly, and the GM should include an item along those lines if it is plausible given the value and power level of the treasure collection. This is in addition to Refine Treasure.
- Discover Ruins: While traveling through wilderness, the Explorer has a sense for any locations of potential interest within a radius of 3 miles per EEL. They automatically become aware of the direction to ruins, camps, magical locations, settlements, etc within that radius as they travel, as well as a vague sense of what kind of thing it is.
- Minimap: The Explorer has a precise eidetic memory of places they have been before, and are always aware of how their current location relates to that. The Explorer cannot become lost in wilderness or mazes, and may always refer back to the layouts and details of any place they have previously been - what was where, how it connected to other places, even things such as environmental text in languages they don't know.
- Bounty Hunter: The Explorer may choose a specific person they are familiar with as a Goal.
-- Radar: As long as the Explorer has a free Goal slot, they may use their Navigation to cycle between known targets they have already perceived at least once in a fight, basically giving them constant knowledge of the direction to any creatures around them that they have become aware of. This negates any penalties from being unable to see an enemy and bypasses effects such as Mirror Image and Displacement which rely on perception or concealment.
- Treasure Hunter: The Explorer may choose a specific artifact or unique item they have knowledge of as a Goal.
- Hunter of the Hidden: The Explorer may choose to set 'a secret about X' as a Goal, where X must be something they could otherwise choose as a Goal.
- Wayfinder: When Navigating towards a Goal, the Explorer receives directions that form a physically plausible route for them to follow rather than straight-line directions, if such a thing exists. This does not include instructions such as passwords or what actions to take; its more like Google Maps routing than Find the Path. So e.g. they might be directed to the nearest sea-port with a vessel capable of taking them where they want to go. The Explorer can voluntarily suppress this ability.
- Environmental Tactician: Whenever there is a battlefield-wide environmental effect, the Explorer may choose to make it so that their attacks cause the effect to apply an additional time to a target they hit, with save DCs and damage as appropriate according to Environmental Combatant. So for example high winds that require a saving throw to not be Knocked Down would allow the Explorer to make their strikes trigger additional saves at their own DC. The extra damage from Environmental Combatant only applies if the environmental effect itself deals damage (e.g. the fact that the Explorer's attack caused damage is not enough to count).
- Stranger in a Strange Land: Any new civilizations, peoples, or organizations that have not yet had any interactions with the Explorer or their party treat the Explorer at the highest level of hospitality they/their culture would give to a total stranger - e.g. any innate hostilities due to particulars of the Explorer's race, mode of dress, perceived class, etc will be neutralized, but someone who would be hostile to any and all strangers will still be hostile. Once the Explorer or their group become known to people, this provides no further normalization of relations.
-- Welcome Emissary: As above, but in addition in the absence of information or proof otherwise, people will initially assume that the Explorer and their party have the attributes and qualifications they would look on most favorably. So for example, if the Explorer visits a new civilization and asks to have dinner with their king, guards and courtiers and so on will assume by default that they must be a peer of appropriate rank to have dinner with kings. But if the civilization doesn't have a tradition of foreign rulers or dignitaries dining with the king, this ability does not override that fact.
- Alchemical Tool Specialist: The Explorer gets particular usage out of alchemical tools like Alchemist Fire and Thunderstones and the like, and may gain the benefits of their Environmental Combatant ability to damage and effects from such tools.
- Poison Specialist: The Explorer has learned to use the best of exotic toxins and harmful materials from a variety of places. The DCs of any poisons acquired from the Explorer's Exploited locations are increased to 10+EEL/2+Wis mod if that would be higher. This also applies to any Consumables from Exploited locations which apply debuffs on contact, even if they are not strictly 'poisons'.
- Salve Specialist: Any consumables from Exploited Locations that provide a beneficial effect are enhanced. Healing from such items is increased by the Explorer's EEL + Wis mod. Items which provide buffs have their duration increased by 25% per EEL.

[Prime32]

3. Cut the prices of magic weapons so that they're more affordable at lower levels. Magic weapon prices scale way too quickly in this edition IMO.
Taking things further: remove the concept of magic staffs that cast spells for you and scale by your CL.
Instead make them an add-on to magic swords, which scale by your BAB. Weapon Focus/Specialization can boost their power and save DCs, and you need proficiency in the weapon to use it properly. Because it's fighters, not wizards, who excel in making the most of their equipment. Single-classed wizards should only have staffs which act as a focus for their existing power rather than provide entirely new options.

You might want to combine this with PF-style staffs that have 10 charges and recover 1 charge/day.

[Bohandas]

What if the more levels you had in martial classes the more martial classes you were allowed to gestalt together?

[Troacctid]

We are going to try a set up where people who stick with tier 3 or lower classes can gestalt but people who play Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes cannot. I can't say how well it will work, as we have not started yet. However, everyone seems to have fun, powerful, versatile builds, but w/o the crazy versatility of T1 and T2 classes.
Having used similar tier-based gestalt variants before, I feel pretty confident in saying that it is not more balanced than the existing class system, but it is definitely differently balanced than the existing class system, so if you just want to shake up the game and put a different set of classes at the top, it'll do that. It has a hard time accounting for prestige classes, though.


Taking things further: remove the concept of magic staffs that cast spells for you and scale by your CL.
Instead make them an add-on to magic swords, which scale by your BAB. Weapon Focus/Specialization can boost their power and save DCs, and you need proficiency in the weapon to use it properly. Because it's fighters, not wizards, who excel in making the most of their equipment. Single-classed wizards should only have staffs which act as a focus for their existing power rather than provide entirely new options.

You might want to combine this with PF-style staffs that have 10 charges and recover 1 charge/day.
I wouldn't describe this as "Taking things further." This seems like a totally separate idea.

I also don't think people play fighters so that they can pick up wands and pretend to be wizards. I mean, you can definitely play a staff-focused fighter, but you don't need any houserules for that—you can just take feats. (And for the record, the class that makes the best use of equipment is clearly artificer, not fighter!)

[RandomPeasant]

One thing that needs to be defined before you set out to do something like this is what you expect the balance target for casters to be, and what level you expect to be operating at. Tooling things up for a low-op game at 8th level can be as simple as giving whoever's struggling a Weapon of Legacy that they don't have to pay any costs or penalties for. Whereas in a high-op 20th level game you have to basically re-write any non-caster you want to be more than scenery. One thing that immediately jumps out about the changes suggested in the OP is that it doesn't really seem like any of them do much of anything to compete with utility spells like teleport or raise dead.


I want to give non-casters a buff that doesn't require them to become better casters.

Define "caster". Are the ToB classes casters? Is "the Barbarian, but you have a pool of Rage points you get by dealing damage that you can spend on powerful abilities" a caster? Is "the Rogue, but you get the abilities of a Shadowdancer as part of your base class" a caster? Is someone who can replicate shadow walk with a high enough Survival check a caster? Broadly, the problem you're going to have is that any easy solution is going to need to be stated in terms of existing material, and all the existing material that competes with spells is spells, so you have to either write a ton of new abilities or be comfortable saying "the Barbarian gets a thing that is basically speak with dead but different enough I don't think he's a Cleric".


Raising the frequency of ability score increases doesn’t address the disparity between SAD classes and MAD classes. In fact, you will likely just widen the gap between those who specialize in one stat, and those who attempt to dabble in a mix of stats.

One thing that does address this is letting people go hog-wild with getting inherent bonuses, because those have a capped upside per stat. If you assume that ~10th level people can find and beat up enough genies to secure +5s to all their stats, that will help MAD classes some.


If I’m reading the armor changes right, anyone wearing armor is immune to HP damage until the armor is sundered? So, either a player will end a fight having taken no damage, or they’ll end a fight with their armor destroyed? Considering a typical smith takes several weeks to craft a set of full plate, this could add a lot of down time between adventures. Also, trying to keep yourself stocked with magic armor will become very expensive if the DM has to destroy a suit of armor every combat to make the player’s feel threatened.

Also it seems like it makes having a caster that can drop fabricate and magic vestment frequently the best solution to armor.


Typically, having SR 11 means a 1st level mage has a 50% change to affect you with each spell. If you instead subtract SR from caster level, that means you’d need at least a caster level of 12 to affect someone with a spell. Otherwise your effective caster level would be zero or less, and the spell would fizzle.

Also worth noting that making SR really high will tend to push casters to try to compete with martials directly. If I can cast finger of death and expect that to kill people with reasonable reliability, I can prepare finger of death and feel good about my life choices. If finger of death does nothing against most enemies, I'm going to tend to want to do something like stacking Persistent buffs or recruiting a bunch of minions that will crowd out the Fighter much more directly. SR is also a fairly limited defense, as people can cast wall of stone or metamagic'd-up orb of fire and ignore it. Finally, I think "what if magic didn't work on martials" is sort of a boring solution. There already is a part of the game where people don't use powerful magic: low level. If that's the dynamic you like, just play at whatever level you think works best and do some kind of E6-ish reduced advancement.


How does that thing about Rogues and Bards having a higher skill cap interact with multiclass character? Is one level of Rogue or Bard sufficient to enjoy the higher cap on all levels in other classes?

Honestly a +2 skill difference just doesn't seem like that big of a deal (and it's not even really that unless you increase the 1st level points too). Skill bonuses in 3e get really big even with modest efforts at optimization, a relative +2 is the difference between, like, having to take Alertness to get the PrC you want and not.


Almost every epic skill use could have been implemented as a class feature or feat instead. If you want some people to have superhuman stealth, you can give Hide in Plain Sight to the appropriate classes. If you think everyone should have the option to access it, you can make a feat that gives the same benefits as the Hide in Plain Sight class feature.

Honestly as far as Hide In Plain Sight goes, I would just make it so that you can always make a Hide check while observed and have there be a big penalty that some abilities removed.


What if the more levels you had in martial classes the more martial classes you were allowed to gestalt together?

This seems like it mostly means that, as people gain levels, martial builds homogenize without that much of an increase in power. Barbarian//Fighter is not that much better than Barbarian or Fighter, but has (by definition) erased the value of either separately. IMO if you want a gestalt-based solution the easiest one is "free ToB Gestalt".


Having used similar tier-based gestalt variants before, I feel pretty confident in saying that it is not more balanced than the existing class system, but it is definitely differently balanced than the existing class system, so if you just want to shake up the game and put a different set of classes at the top, it'll do that. It has a hard time accounting for prestige classes, though.

Also make sure you're not using a version that has the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer at T3.

[Troacctid]

This seems like it mostly means that, as people gain levels, martial builds homogenize without that much of an increase in power. Barbarian//Fighter is not that much better than Barbarian or Fighter, but has (by definition) erased the value of either separately. IMO if you want a gestalt-based solution the easiest one is "free ToB Gestalt".
If you go that route, patching in just the maneuver/stance progression but not the rest of the class is better than fully gestalting, IMO.


Also make sure you're not using a version that has the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer at T3.
Ooh yeah, this is super important—any time you run any sort of tier-based houserules, you really really need to make sure you have a reasonably accurate tier list, because if your list significantly underrates a class, it's going to seriously warp the game. And it's also a good idea to make sure that your campaign is going to align with the same assumptions that the tier list is based on: single-class characters who spend most of the campaign in the level 5–15 range. If you try to rebalance based on the class tiers and your campaign only runs from level 1–7, no no no, stop that, the rankings are going to be all wrong for what you're doing.

The most recent version of the tier list is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?600635-Why-each-class-is-in-its-tier-2019-update!), and it includes helpful explanations of why each class is where it is and what circumstances would cause the rankings to shift.

[Promethean]

Holy crap this blew up while I wasn't watching it.

Going to be flat out honest here: game balance was never a consideration when I was spitballing the above ideas.
This isn't a game session I was planning to take seriously, it was meant to be crazy and off the wall. The issue I was having when designing it is that martial characters don't get access to their coolest abilities(epic skill checks) until much later than casting classes. I had also rediscovered the superhuman ability score bonus chart for AD&D 2e and wanted to implement something similar for 3e.

The easiest solutions I thought to solve both of my above problems would be to scale ability score bonuses to the same rate as skills(so that martial characters would have around +20 from ability scores and +20 from skills at 17+ level to let them reliably hit 50+ DC skill checks without magic items) and creating superhuman ability chart that scales more closely to 3.5's longer ability score trek(25 was the ability score cap for Gods in previous editions and lifting multiple tons at 20 strength was normal. In 3.5, it requires 40 strength to pull the same feat. Vecna nerfed martials Into The Ground when he changed the edition mechanics).



Define "caster". Are the ToB classes casters? Is "the Barbarian, but you have a pool of Rage points you get by dealing damage that you can spend on powerful abilities" a caster? Is "the Rogue, but you get the abilities of a Shadowdancer as part of your base class" a caster? Is someone who can replicate shadow walk with a high enough Survival check a caster? Broadly, the problem you're going to have is that any easy solution is going to need to be stated in terms of existing material, and all the existing material that competes with spells is spells, so you have to either write a ton of new abilities or be comfortable saying "the Barbarian gets a thing that is basically speak with dead but different enough I don't think he's a Cleric".

To answer in order: A person who cast spells, manifests powers, uses invocations, etc.
Thar barbarian would depend. That rogue is definitely 100% a caster. Is the survival skill is able to do that?
My goal wasn't really to compete with spells to begin with, sorry for not specifying. I just wanted martial characters to have some cool and silly toys.