New to 5e disadvantages and advantages help

[shadowseve]

So, I get the mechanics of the double roll for disadvantages and advantages. But I’m curious as to when most of you as a dm would assign them, besides when an ability says you have one or the other. For example if the party is moving through difficult terrain but their enemy is able to move unhindered etc… Or is it left up to pretty much dm fiat?

[Unoriginal]

So, I get the mechanics of the double roll for disadvantages and advantages. But I’m curious as to when most of you as a dm would assign them, besides when an ability says you have one or the other. For example if the party is moving through difficult terrain but their enemy is able to move unhindered etc… Or is it left up to pretty much dm fiat?

They're literally to be applied where the DM judges circumstances give an advantage or disadvantage to someone.

For example, trying to convince someone who hates a specific religion to let you talk with their boss? If you are yourself a member of that religion, you're at a disadvantage, so you get the mechanical representation by rolling two dice and keeping the worst one. If you are known to have humiliated a member of that religion, though, you have an advantage in convincing the person, and so you get the mechanical representation by rolling two dice and keeping the best.

"DM fiat" is kind of a dismissive way to put "DM doing the DM's job".

[KorvinStarmast]

So, I get the mechanics of the double roll for disadvantages and advantages. But I’m curious as to when most of you as a dm would assign them, besides when an ability says you have one or the other. For example if the party is moving through difficult terrain but their enemy is able to move unhindered etc… Or is it left up to pretty much dm fiat? Look at the circumstance.
Make a judgment.

Also: see my sig. Making a ruling is the DM doing their job. (So that's an agreement with Unoriginal).
In the scenario you mention, that would be a valid ruling depending on what else is going on. Take in the whole scene, the gestalt if you will).

[follacchioso]

I think even 3.5E had a mechanics where a DM could assign a bonus to a check, like "take a +1 to this persuasion check, because you have been friends with this person for so long", or "take a +2 to this stealth check, because you are small and wearing dark clothes, and it is night".

I don't know if this is really RAW or not, but this is how my group played. This was a way to balance skill checks when multiple character tried the same check against the same DC, or when the DC was set for some reasons.

The 5E edition got away with all these custom bonuses and replaced them with a simpler mechanics, which is advantage/disadvantage. You don't really need all those +1/+2/+3 and so on, and they just slow the game down, just give advantage when there are highly favorable chances and disadvantage when there are big penalities.

That being said, most classes and races have their own ways to get adv when they need to do something, so DMs rarely need to think about that.

[H_H_F_F]

Yeah, it's up to the DM - though unlike previous posters, I do believe that the system could've given more guidance for how easy it should be to get advantage, especially with things that key of having advantage, or abilities that give advantage. The value of those fluctuates wildly depending on how generous/stringent the DM is with advantage.

There's also aiding another. I personally try to rule it so unless you have a very good explanation, you can't aid someone with a skill you're not proficient with, for example. No, Gungar the 4 Int barbarian can't help you research the details of this complex theological debate.

Anyway, DC is how hard the task generally is, and advantage is for how hard it is right now / for you. If you need to climb a wall, and fast, having a rope dangle from the top should change the DC - while having climbed that very wall a few times in the past should give advantage.

I also try to use advantage and disadvantage to represent stuff that's absent from the system. in 3.5, hide vs spot has modifiers depending on distance, for example. If you're trying to sneak past a guard in a watch tower at night from very far away, I may go as far as giving you advantage and them disadvantage - and vice-versa, if you're trying to get to the very foot of the tower.

[Bobthewizard]

So, I get the mechanics of the double roll for disadvantages and advantages. But I’m curious as to when most of you as a dm would assign them, besides when an ability says you have one or the other. For example if the party is moving through difficult terrain but their enemy is able to move unhindered etc… Or is it left up to pretty much dm fiat?

I would not apply disadvantage to attack rolls in this case. That would be treating the PCs as if they are restrained, which is a different condition. Difficult terrain just slows movement. For combat, I recommend you stick to just abilities and conditions that say they apply it. For skill checks, there is much more leeway for the DM.

[stoutstien]

So, I get the mechanics of the double roll for disadvantages and advantages. But I’m curious as to when most of you as a dm would assign them, besides when an ability says you have one or the other. For example if the party is moving through difficult terrain but their enemy is able to move unhindered etc… Or is it left up to pretty much dm fiat?

In this case the difficult terrain is already doing what it supposed to in regards to hindering movement. You can't really have disadvantage for movement anyways as it's not a save, ability check, or attack.

Now say you were trying to sneak or somehow achieve a different result than just moving through that area then yea it's well within the DMs influence to say that ability check would be made at disadvantage.

[shadowseve]

Ok, so pretty much what I was thinking. Thanks guys. I want to make sure I’m understanding everything before making certain rulings.

[stoutstien]

Ok, so pretty much what I was thinking. Thanks guys. I want to make sure I’m understanding everything before making certain rulings.

Look at page ~239-240 of the DMG for a pretty good outline of it.

[shadowseve]

Look at page ~239-240 of the DMG for a pretty good outline of it.

Thanks! I will do that. I want to be fair, so thanks for the advice!

[stoutstien]

Thanks! I will do that. I want to be fair, so thanks for the advice!
The best rule of thumb is if it already has a penalty associated with it then it doesn't need adv/dis adv as well unless it states so.

It's a big deal as far as the math goes so it's not quite like just handing out automatic failure it's pretty close if it's constant.

[KorvinStarmast]

Go through Chapter nine a couple of more times to get a feel for how


Movement
Actions
Bonus Actions
Reactions
Interact with object

flow.

[shadowseve]

Go through Chapter nine a couple of more times to get a feel for how


Movement
Actions
Bonus Actions
Reactions
Interact with object

flow.

One of the things I actually really like is the flow of movement. Much better than 3.5. I think if I ran another 3.5, I’d steal the movement from 5e. 😝

[Blatant Beast]

I also try to use advantage and disadvantage to represent stuff that's absent from the system. in 3.5, hide vs spot has modifiers depending on distance, for example. If you're trying to sneak past a guard in a watch tower at night from very far away, I may go as far as giving you advantage and them disadvantage - and vice-versa, if you're trying to get to the very foot of the tower.

Dim Light also assess a -5 penalty to Perception checks, which would stack with Disadvantage.

As a DM, I will admit to being a bit reluctant to ad hoc assess Advantage/Disadvantage in combat. Disadvantage, functionally, removes one’s ability to crit….so a very big deal.

[stoutstien]

Dim Light also assess a -5 penalty to Perception checks, which would stack with Disadvantage.

As a DM, I will admit to being a bit reluctant to ad hoc assess Advantage/Disadvantage in combat. Disadvantage, functionally, removes one’s ability to crit….so a very big deal.

No it doesn't. The -5 is from disadvantage which doesn't stack.

[H_H_F_F]

Dim Light also assess a -5 penalty to Perception checks, which would stack with Disadvantage.

As a DM, I will admit to being a bit reluctant to ad hoc assess Advantage/Disadvantage in combat. Disadvantage, functionally, removes one’s ability to crit….so a very big deal.

I'm talking about same light, different distances. Same goes for going by someone invisible from 60 feet away vs squeezing by them. The system doesn't intrinsically offer anything but "perception vs stealth" so dis/advantage is your best tool to address it, IMO.

[JackPhoenix]

Dim Light also assess a -5 penalty to Perception checks, which would stack with Disadvantage.

Dim light gives disadvantage, not -5, and thus can't stack with another source of disadvantage. Now, a disadvantage translates to -5 on PASSIVE Perception, but again, another source of disadvantage wouldn't apply another -5 penalty, you either have disadvantage or you don't.

[KorvinStarmast]

Dim light gives disadvantage, not -5, and thus can't stack with another source of disadvantage. Now, a disadvantage translates to -5 on PASSIVE Perception, but again, another source of disadvantage wouldn't apply another -5 penalty, you either have disadvantage or you don't. If I may repeat this for emphasis for our OP who is navigating his way into new edition: neither advantage nor disadvantage stack.

[Dualight]

If I may repeat this for emphasis for our OP who is navigating his way into new edition: neither advantage nor disadvantage stack.
In addition to this, having both advantage and disadvantage cancels out completely. Even a single disadvantage neutralises infinite sources of advantage, and the same is true for the reverse.

[shadowseve]

If I may repeat this for emphasis for our OP who is navigating his way into new edition: neither advantage nor disadvantage stack.

Yeah, I read about it in the dmg. Thanks for all the help

[Theodoxus]

In addition to this, having both advantage and disadvantage cancels out completely. Even a single disadvantage neutralises infinite sources of advantage, and the same is true for the reverse.

I really hate this rule in certain circumstances. Like darkness, or two invisible creatures fighting. Both have disadvantage because they can't see. But both have advantage because the other can't see... so fighting in darkness in melee is just as easy as fighting in full light in melee. Yeah, yeah, it's not a reality simulator, but some things are just too silly to take at face value.

[Person_Man]

More broadly, D&D historically grew out of the historical tabletop wargaming community, in which authors would publish scenarios for specific battles (or sometimes larger wars/campaigns) filled with unique rules and charts to simulate that situation. (Usually with specific rules and charts for different troops, weapons, weather, generals, morale, terrain, etc). When you wanted to do something new, you came up with new rules to do it.

D&D ported this over to the fantasy genre, and over time tried to standardize things so that players didn’t have to learn new rules every time they wanted to play a new campaign. It generally accomplished this, but was known for having a phonebook full of special rules and situational modifiers and charts players had to learn if they wanted to do different things in different situations, which were constantly added to with supplements.

5E wisely dispenses with that mindset. If the players want to do anything, the DM simply has to decide on how difficult it would be (the Difficulty Chance or DC) and whether, given any special abilities there may have, the choices the player makes, and the totality of all circumstances, the player has Advantage or Disadvantage or not. It allows the DM to adjudicate any possible circumstances without having to find, make up, or remember new rules.

D&D is not a video game with a limited number of specific buttons players press to do specific things. Class abilities, skills, etc, are a staring point, a toolbox, with which players and DMs can use to do anything they want.