Letting warlock cast patron spells once per day 4 free.

[Throne12]

This is just a shower thought type of thing. But what I see alot of players complain about is how warlocks spell slots go to fast and you only really use 3 spells regularly. So why not just let the player cast there sudclass add spell list spell once per-long rest.


Do you think this would help or make the warlock OP.

[KorvinStarmast]

That would be fine with me, but I am a little biased since I like playing warlocks.

[Saelethil]

That’s a thought I had a while ago too. On top of just giving them a little more spell power, it would encourage them to use all their Patron thematic spells instead of just picking their favorite and spamming it.

[Skrum]

Warlocks flatly need more spell slots, so anything in this regard would help. But IMO what they *really* need is the 1st and 2nd level defensive spells: shield, silvery barbs, absorb elements, misty step, mirror image, the occasional blur.

But yeah, I think this is a good idea. At a more meta level, I like the idea of casters getting far more tailored, narrow lists of spells and not just having free reign to pick anything. This would be a great implementation of that concept.

[Psyren]

My concerns here are twofold:

1) This could be an outsize power boost combined with Pact Slots and Invocations. Bonus 1st-2nd level slots are on thing, but once you're getting into the 3rd-5th range - especially doing so on curve - you're giving even those Warlocks that don't get regular SRs a lot of ammunition, never mind the ones that do.

2) This will exacerbate the balance gaps between subclasses. If the spells are simply free preparations then it doesn't matter as much that Infernal gets fireball at 5 while Undying gets Speak With Dead. But if they're free uses as well, the former becomes much more appealing. There are even really solid patron spells, like Celestial's Revivify or Daolock's Stone Shape, that your odds of needing to cast every single day are very slim.

[diplomancer]

This is just a shower thought type of thing. But what I see alot of players complain about is how warlocks spell slots go to fast and you only really use 3 spells regularly. So why not just let the player cast there sudclass add spell list spell once per-long rest.


Do you think this would help or make the warlock OP.

I'd allow 1 casting, from all the Patron spells, 1 of each would be way too much.

[Saelethil]

I'd allow 1 casting, from all the Patron spells, 1 of each would be way too much.

I don’t think one of each level would be unreasonable. So essentially 1 long rest slot of each level up to 5th that can only be used on a patron spell.

[Joe the Rat]

Are you looking at one casting off of the list (at lowest level) per long rest, or once for each spell on the list?

The former is a nice boon, the latter is a bit much.

One angle you could tune is a free specific spell level casting off of the patron list 1/day, then repeat the boon with different levels.
Example: At level X1 you get a daily free casting of a first level spell off of your patron list. At X2, you get a free daily 2nd level spell off the patron list. You could put this when the levels become available (Warlock 1, Warlock 3, etc), or place them later. And you can also cap the free dailies - only add the feature up to 3rd or 4th level spells, wherever it feels best.

One thing that could work in this arena is a "Spell Feat" invocation - You get a casting of a spell, without using a spell slot 1/LR, and it gets added to your prepared spells list. Frankly, if there's a class where stealing other classes' spells should be a thing, Warlock fits as well (if not better) than Bard.

[Throne12]

What about this. you can cast any of your patron spells equal to your Proficiency Bonus per-long rest.

[Dualight]

Considering that the Patron spells for the warlock are an expanded spell list, unlike the extra spells prepared/known of other classes, would this house rule also give these spells as added spells known, or the warlock still need to give up a spell known to cast with spell slots?

[diplomancer]

Considering that the Patron spells for the warlock are an expanded spell list, unlike the extra spells prepared/known of other classes, would this house rule also give these spells as added spells known, or the warlock still need to give up a spell known to cast with spell slots?

I believe he is assuming that the 2024 warlock will be like the one published in UA7, where those spells are extra spells/known. I believe it's a safe assumption, would be surprised if that changed.

[KorvinStarmast]

Do it like Spell Points:
a. You have as many spell points as your proficiency bonus.

Level 1 patron spell costs 2
Level 2 patron spell costs 3
Level 3 patron spell costs 5

Each LR (or each SR?) you can cast as many of the patron spell points as you have points for.

So, a little boost, but not a big one.
Fiddly? Yeah, a bit. And the higher level ones (4 and 5) don't come into play.

[Nagog]

My concerns here are twofold:

1) This could be an outsize power boost combined with Pact Slots and Invocations. Bonus 1st-2nd level slots are on thing, but once you're getting into the 3rd-5th range - especially doing so on curve - you're giving even those Warlocks that don't get regular SRs a lot of ammunition, never mind the ones that do.

2) This will exacerbate the balance gaps between subclasses. If the spells are simply free preparations then it doesn't matter as much that Infernal gets fireball at 5 while Undying gets Speak With Dead. But if they're free uses as well, the former becomes much more appealing. There are even really solid patron spells, like Celestial's Revivify or Daolock's Stone Shape, that your odds of needing to cast every single day are very slim.

On the first point: There is a point there if they can cast every one of their patron spells once per day, though limiting it a bit more (such as one per level per day, or just one free Patron spell per day), then you get one cool moment per day, and then that's it.

To your second point: subclasses are balanced with their spell lists in mind. Hence why Glory Paladin, despite it's class features being kinda meh overall, is a great subclass because it grants the Paladin the Haste spell. Fiend is iffy mechanically, but that's balanced well because they get the likes of Fireball and Stinking Cloud.

Except Hexblade, getting Shield and Blink, but "Hexblade isn't balanced well" is far from a new take.