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thoroughlyS
2023-09-19, 12:11 PM
I have had a gimmick build idea for a while now, with the core premise that you have to start by taking 1 level in each class before you can do any repeats. What would you do, assuming all most recent officially published material (e.g. kobold from MotM not VGtM) is allowed? 27 point buy for stats, which makes this a LOT harder to bring online. If possible, I'd appreciate level-by-level advancement, but just a 20th level version is also fair (I get that these builds are going to be busy). I will hold off on posting my version, so as not to influence other posters.

Mongobear
2023-09-19, 12:59 PM
I have had a gimmick build idea for a while now, with the core premise that you have to start by taking 1 level in each class before you can do any repeats. What would you do, assuming all most recent officially published material (e.g. kobold from MotM not VGtM) is allowed? Point buy for stats, which makes this a LOT harder to bring online. If possible, I'd appreciate level-by-level advancement, but just a 20th level version is also fair (I get that these builds are going to be busy). I will hold off on posting my version, so as not to influence other posters.

Is stis even possible with the replacement of racial stats with the +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 racial stats and standard point buy?

Amnestic
2023-09-19, 01:14 PM
With 27 point buy, you're pretty severely limited in where you can allocate your stats since you need to have 13 in Str/Dex/Int/Wis/Cha for full multiclassing purposes.

With Tasha's reassign in play, I'd be aiming for a hill dwarf so we can grab movement in heavy armour. Hill dwarf also helps our low hit point total.

Our stats are 13/13/11/13/13/12 pre-racials and 13/13/12/13/13/14 post-racials. Important to remember these are going to be our stats for the next 16 or so levels, unless we can nab a precious stat-boosting item.

Our first level is fighter for heavy armour proficiency and a fighting style (Defense).
Second level is Cleric (Peace) - gives us Emboldening Bond, so we're offering something of value in combat despite our mediocre stats.
Third is warlock (Genie) - nets us EB and a proficiency-bonus scaling damage boost in Genie's Wrath 1/turn.
Fourth is Bard - gets us Bardic Inspiration, additional support stuff and another skill proficiency, though we're still at a meagre 2/LR for BI uses. Not great. It keeps our spell slot progression though.
Fifth is Sorcerer - Divine or Clockwork are probably the most useful, but this build is silly, so we take Wild Magic instead. With EB as a staple of the build's damage output, we'll be rolling enough attack rolls for Tides of Chaos+Wild Surging.
Sixth is Druid. Hope your DM ignores that "no metal" sillyness or that you can craft some angkheg chitin heavy armour, I guess.
Seventh is Wizard, we're trucking on with our spellcasting progression. We're up to 3rd level spell slots now, even if we can only cast 1st level spells still.
By 8th we've run out of full casters, so we switch into Artificer as the next best thing.
Ninth goes to Ranger. With Canny it gets us expertise in a skill. Chances are that even with just 1st level spells your Concentration is going to be too occupied to make use of Favored Foe, so Favored Enemy is the better choice, limited though it might be.
Tenth goes to Rogue. A bit more expertise here to help make up for our mediocre stats on skills. Sneak Attack is almost certainly not seeing play, though it may be worth keeping a finesse weapon on hand for opportunity attacks regardless.
Eleventh is Paladin. Nets us a tiny amount of Lay on Hands healing and slight spell slot progression.
12th if Barbarian, mostly for the hit dice. Rare is the chance you'll be Raging, though you could use it at the end of a turn for some damage resistance, ending it the turn after once the danger has passed and you can cast again.
Thirteenth, and last, is monk. You get nothing from this, unfortunately.

And with that we have escaped the drudgery of making it through every class. Our standard combat process, almost from level 2, is cast a concentration support spell (Bless, Shield of Faith, etc.) and then EB cantrip spam since it still scales, with Emboldening Bond as needed.
At 14th level we grab Warlock 2 (AB/RB invocations). It's +2/beam damage a turn, mostly we're here for shoving people around. Away from us, mostly.
We're left with six levels to play with, and we're aiming for those ASIs.
First we take Druid (2-4) going into Stars. Their Dragon form helps us maintain concentration on our upcast spells better, which is important, since our save is not good.
Then with our last 3 levels we go Bard (2-4) into Eloquence so we can talk a lot of silliness freely. Or Lore, for general skills+cutting words. Either works.

We end up with 13/13/12/13/13/18 in stats. AC should be 21 without magic items (plate+shield+defense fighting style).

Level breakdown is:
Warlock (Genie) 2
Druid (Stars) 4
Bard (Eloquence) 4
Everyone else 1.

Though we cap out at 2nd level spells, we have up to 7th level spell slots for silly upcasting purposes, expertise in five skills (rangerx1, bardx2, roguex2), heavy armour+shields proficiency with a defense fighting style, and plenty of slots to spend on defensive spells like Shield/AE.

I dunno if this is the most optimal build, it's mostly one that I just made as it came to me.

KorvinStarmast
2023-09-19, 01:18 PM
You can do this with point buy
Stats are 13 13 10 13 13 13
Pick a race.
(There are other variations, since you get a variety of stat boosts depending on race) but that's a usable template.
With 12 classes you can get to 9 in one class and 1 in all of the others.
If you include artificer, you can get to 8 in one class.

You end up with 2 ASIs unless you go Fighter or Rogue that way.
There are a lot of permutations, though.

thoroughlyS
2023-09-19, 02:20 PM
If you include artificer
Yes, artificer is included.

Sixth is Druid. Hope your DM ignores that "no metal" sillyness or that you can craft some angkheg chitin heavy armour, I guess.
You want to know something crazy? There is only one heavy armor explicitly listed as being made out of nonmetal material: Scorpion Armor from Tomb of Annihilation which is cursed! Obviously I am not disqualifying nonmetal heavy armor, but you'd think there would be more than one official example.

KorvinStarmast
2023-09-19, 03:03 PM
Yes, artificer is included.

You want to know something crazy? There is only one heavy armor explicitly listed as being made out of nonmetal material: Scorpion Armor from Tomb of Annihilation which is cursed! Obviously I am not disqualifying nonmetal heavy armor, but you'd think there would be more than one official example.
Here's what I'd suggest:
Half Elf. (Start with 2 bonus proficiencies and an extra language)
Point Buy to: 13 12 10 12 13 14 and yield: S 13 D 13 C 10 I 13 W 13 Ch 16.

So many classes to choose from, why not pick barbarian to begin with 12 HP. :smallyuk:

RogueJK
2023-09-19, 04:30 PM
You're going to take 1 level of each of the 13 classes class, which leaves 7 additional levels to play with. I say we put all 7 of those into one class, to be able to grab 2x ASIs (or 3x ASIs if you go Fighter).

Heavy Armor isn't viable, since you have to take a level of Druid, which limits you to either Leather Armor or Hide Armor. (Or Mage Armor. Or Natural Armor)

So since you're unlikely to be able to have a decent score in more than one stat, and your AC is severely limited by your Druid armor limitation, we might as well go with DEX as our sole stat focus.

From there, the decision becomes which class to dump our +7 levels into. Fighter or Rogue would probably be the most viable option. And by going with a DEX-based Eldritch Knight Fighter it gets you some additional spells to use with your higher level spell slots, as well as a second attack and a third ASI. So that's my pick.


So how about this:

Standard Human
Eldritch Knight Fighter 8/Everything Else 1 Each
STR 12+1
DEX 13+1
CON 13+1
INT 12+1
WIS 12+1
CHA 13+1
ASIs: +2 DEX at Fighter 4/6/8 to end up with 20 DEX at Level 20.
Fighting Style: Dueling

Take Genie Warlock for added PB damage, Peace Cleric for stackable quasi-BlessGuidance, and Draconic Sorcerer to save your limited spell slots from having to cast Mage Armor daily

You've got an eventual baseline 20 AC from Draconic natural armor, a shield, and 20 DEX. You've got DEX-based Rapier attacks, eventually using War Magic for Booming Blade Attack + BA Second Attack (with +1d6 Sneak Attack and +PB damage each turn). And you'll eventually gain access to Shadow Blade as your free 2nd level "any school" spell for times when you want added damage over your standard rapier, with up to 6x castings per day, including 3x 3rd level slots for upcasting for extra damage. You have a bunch of 1st level defensive and utility spells from various classes that won't care about your middling INT/WIS/CHA stats.

As for progression, start Fighter for CON save proficiency, 10 HP, and weapon/shield proficiency. Then take Sorcerer next to pick up your Draconic AC boost, some defensive spells like Shield and Absorb Elements, and 4x cantrips including Booming Blade. Then take Rogue for Sneak Attack and Expertise. Then Cleric and Warlock for their 1st level subclass abilities. Then Wizard for all the 1st level rituals. Then the remainder of the spellcasters that won't get you much besides more 1st level utility and defensive casting and some upcast slots. Then the remainder of the martials since you get barely anything useful from them at their Level 1. Then finally the rest of the 8 Fighter levels.

You're a decently viable Tier 1 and early Tier 2 martial - other than your middling 14 DEX - but you will drop off significantly in later Tier 2 and Tier 3 before a very slightly bounce back towards the end of Tier 4 once your ASIs and additional EK abilities come online (still nowhere near as good as a normal Tier 4 PC would be...)

thoroughlyS
2023-09-19, 04:57 PM
STR 13
DEX 13+1
CON 12+2
INT 13
WIS 13
CHA 12+1
These stats are too high. 5 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 4 = 28 points.

Willowhelm
2023-09-19, 05:11 PM
To be honest this doesn’t even seem like it would be too bad. You can cover most problems early with careful race or class selection (AC mostly) and a single attack with a weapon will be competitive, even if you don’t have the best to-hit.

Especially if you pick up a stat setting or stat boosting magic item along the way and can tailor your later levels around that, it should be eminently playable.

Mongobear
2023-09-19, 05:17 PM
Tortle or Lizardfolk might be viable to start out with free AC. Isnt Tortle something like 16 or 17 just for existing, with no penalties like non-proficiency?

Amnestic
2023-09-19, 05:25 PM
Tortle or Lizardfolk might be viable to start out with free AC. Isnt Tortle something like 16 or 17 just for existing, with no penalties like non-proficiency?

Tortle is 17 baseline, can be combo'd with a shield to bring it up to 19. It does limit you if magical armour becomes available though.

Speely
2023-09-19, 05:34 PM
I had fun with this.

Sheldon the Unsure is a seeker of truth who strives to see the pattern behind the working of all things and derive a sense of order from it, and he will explore that through helping others on their various paths and helping them to be their best version of themselves with an empathetic touch. He is patient, kind, and stalwart.

This build is focused on giving allies better (and extra) chances to do well rather than trying to approximate individual greatness. Paladin should be before Rogue mechanically, but I tried to do a theme with this one, approximating the journey of a character actually doing this much multiclassing lol.

Playstyle: Buff spells, healing spells, overall support focusing on Voice of Authority as a centerpiece.

Species: Tortle

13/13/12/13/14/13 - Sheldon is destied to be primarily a cleric.

1: Sorcerer 1 - Clockwork Soul
Con Save, Spell Slots, some useful early spells and cantrips, plus ADV/DVG negation. Let's all settle down.
Sheldon begins his journey by virtue of his very origins... the mechanisms of order and sense run in his very blood.

2: Cleric 1 - Order Domain
Shields, Cleric spells, Voice of Authority (the focus of this bonkers build)
Naturally, Sheldon seeks further truth in the celestial laws of the multiverse. This will prove to be the path he decides upon.

3: Warlock 1 - Celestial
Two bonus action pop-ups, one short-rest spell slot for Cure Wounds to trigger Voice of Authority.
Sheldon makes a deal with a celestial who is allied with his god. Best to listen to those who have already learned some of what he seeks!

4: Wizard 1
Spell slot and Arcane Recovery for an extra 1st level slot per day.
Not wanting to ignore the scholarly research, Sheldon takes one pickup class to get the credit and recognize due diligence. In doing so, he discovers that his bloodline contains not only the legacy of order, but a touch of fey merriment, leading him to...

5: Bard 1
Spell slot and Bardic Inspiration
Sheldon realizes that helping those who are more focused on specific paths teaches him much, and that a bit of chance can be healthy if not pursued in excess.

6: Druid 1
Spell Slot, more Wisdom-based spells, Shillelagh
Sheldon is really leaning into this whimsical phase, as fey curiosity leads him to learning about the natural order specifically.

7: Artificer 1
Spell Slot
Realizing that he has been a bit sidetracked by fey whimsy, Sheldon re-focuses himself by exploring the order found in form and function.

8: Fighter 1
Protection style. Now Sheldon can use Shillelagh and a shield to be a bit handier in a scrap if needed.
The world is a dangerous place, and despite his desire to find patterns in the stories of others, Sheldon realizes that he will never learn if he dies.

9: Barbarian 1
More HP, Rage for emergency survival
Sheldon marries his newfound skills of basic martial techniques with the naturalistic energies of druidic magic and gains a touch of primal vigor. The mania this path encourages scares him quite a bit, however.

10: Ranger 1
Favored Enemy, Canny (Survival)
Easing the unstable instincts learned previously, Sheldon channels them into a more disciplined and logical set of skills.

11: Rogue 1
Extra Skill proficiency, Sneak Attack
A natural extension of Sheldon's previous focus on pragmatic knowledge, which translates into a slightly more discrete awareness in combat situations as well.

12: Paladin 1
Sheldon takes an oath to his patron and deity to return to his proper path after bringing his broad areas of experience together.

13: Monk 1
Martial Arts for a bonus action 1d4+1 attack!!!!!! :P
Sheldon spends some time to bring his mind and body together and assimilate the many energies within him into a clear direction.

14-20: Cleric (ASIs +4 WIS for 18 total)
Sheldon returns to his pursuit of both finding and facilitating order, now bringing his god a servant who is aware of a multitude of seemingly disparate threads that nonetheless suggest a larger pattern whose will can be known.

*Edited because I forgot how ASIs work somehow lol

Amnestic
2023-09-19, 05:39 PM
I had fun with this.


Just snipping the top part - you don't get your ASIs at 4th/8th/12th/etc. ASIs are based on class level, not character level.

Speely
2023-09-19, 05:45 PM
Just snipping the top part - you don't get your ASIs at 4th/8th/12th/etc. ASIs are based on class level, not character level.

HOW DID I FORGET THIS? Thanks... adjusting now.

RogueJK
2023-09-19, 05:46 PM
These stats are too high. 5 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 4 = 28 points.

Good catch. So same build as above, but with a Standard Human going

STR 12+1
DEX 13+1
CON 13+1
INT 12+1
WIS 12+1
CHA 12+1

Which is 26 points.

Speely
2023-09-19, 05:53 PM
ASIs are tied to specific levels in each class, not total character level. With this build you'd only get two ASIs, and not until 16th and 20th levels.

Yeah, I somehow forgot that. Thanks for the reminder :)

thoroughlyS
2023-09-19, 05:56 PM
Which is 26 points.
I mean, you get 27 points, so you could bump one of the mental stats up to a 14 if you wanted. +1 to WIS saves is pretty nice.

thoroughlyS
2023-09-21, 01:46 PM
Tortle or Lizardfolk might be viable to start out with free AC.

Sheldon the Unsure

...

Species: Tortle
I also decided to hop on the tortle train, since good AC is so hard to muster with this build. The levels presented below are divided by tiers of play, so there is a clearer sense of when things are happening.

Tortle Rune Shaper
Divine Soul Sorcerer 1 / Wizard 1 / Order Cleric 1 / Celestial Warlock 1 /
Barbarian 1 / Monk 1 / Bard 1 / Rogue 1 / Druid 1 / Fighter 1 /
Artificer 1 / Ranger 1 / Paladin 2 / Ranger +1 / War Wizard +1 /
Stars Druid +1 / Rune Knight Fighter +2 / War Wizard +1
STR 14 (13 + 1)
DEX 13
CON 10
INT 13
WIS 14 (13 + 1)
CHA 14 (13 + 1)


Big picture: this build gets you as many subclasses as possible (6 in total), ends on 6th-level spell slots (never having to cope with the dead progression of 12th caster level), has spell casting which progresses steadily (basically as a half-caster), and gets something from every class (yes, even monk). Because your stats are spread so thin, and you only get 1st-level spells, this build focuses on two types of spells: rituals and spells that upcast for more targets. You also slowly get better at going into melee, swinging around shortswords/claws.

Your first few levels are all full casters so that you get to four 1st-level slots and two 2nd-level slots as quickly as possible. Having only three 1st-level slots is a pain. Your 1st level is divine soul sorcerer for CON saves, favored by the gods (to maintain concentration), and bless as a bonus spell. Rune shaper also gives you comprehend languages and another spell for free. At 2nd level, you get 6 wizard spells in your spell book, and are able to cast rituals in it without needing them prepared. Five of your spells should be magic missile, alarm, detect magic, find familiar, and identify. You also get one 1st-level slot back per long rest. At 3rd level, you get a bonus skill and voice of authority says when you buff an ally, you can also have them attack. This is a great way to make sure the party's DPR stays competitive as your attacks fall off (which they will). At 4th level, you get a refreshing spell slot to keep voice of authority trucking, as well as two free uses of "healing word" which can be used the same turn you cast a buff. The final goody at this level is access to armor of Agathys, which can be upcast to give you a nice chunk of temp hp in big fights.

At 5th level, you now have something to do after you burn all your spell slots: fly into a rage, and start smacking people around. One fun thing is that armor of Agathys and rage synergize really well together, so you can lean into combat a little. 6th, 8th, and 10th level are all actually interchangeable. They all serve to bolster your backup strategy of smacking things after the spells run out. Rage, martial arts, and sneak attack don't play together so well, so your only real option is to dual wield shortswords. On turns where you hit with your first attack, you can actually stow your second weapon to use your claw with martial arts instead (which gives you a whopping +2 additional damage). Rogue also nets you expertise in two skills, to compliment the ever growing array of skills you've been quietly amassing. At 7th level, you get bardic inspiration twice per long rest. At 9th level, you get 3rd-level slots.

11th, 12th, and 13th level get you the half-casters which add more spellcasting versatility, damage in melee, a third expertise, and ways to pick people up. At 14th level, you get smiting, an additional combat style and a 4th-level slot. At 15th level, you get a third fighting style. At 16th level, you get a 5th-level slot and arcane deflection (to make up for not having a shield).

At 17th level, you get access to the chalice and dragon starry forms which can boost your healing or concentration. At 18th level, you get action surge and can cast two spells in one turn. At 19th level, you can grow to Large size in combat, and get some nifty tricks like redirecting damage. And you cap everything off by getting a 6th-level slot and getting two 2nd-level wizard spells. Truly there was no better capstone for the build.

KorvinStarmast
2023-09-21, 01:58 PM
I mean, you get 27 points, so you could bump one of the mental stats up to a 14 if you wanted. +1 to WIS saves is pretty nice. Standard Human, Point Buy:

13 13 10 13 13 13
14 14 11 14 14 14
At level 1 Go Barbarian for 12 HP + 0 and then pick any class after that.
Alternately: standard human.
12 12 10 12 12 15
13 13 11 13 13 16.
Pick something and off you go.
The reason I put 16 in Charisma: it is the casting stat for
Sorcerer, Paladin, Bard, Warlock and it's handy for social stuff; pick one of the three.
Since you have to pick one of each class, why not use a stat that gives lots of bang for your spell DC buck?
Caution: this one's a little bit of a glass cannon HP wise.
Choosing Sorcerer as first level boosts HP by 1 (Draconic) and gets Con save proficiency.

My other suggestion would be to take Hill Dwarf as opening racial choice.

thoroughlyS
2023-09-21, 02:11 PM
Alternately: standard human.
12 12 10 12 12 15
13 13 11 13 13 16.
Dropping CON down to 10 (same modifier) gets you a 14 in STR, DEX, INT, or WIS.

Mongobear
2023-09-21, 02:27 PM
Standard Human, Point Buy:

13 13 10 13 13 13
14 14 11 14 14 14
At level 1 Go Barbarian for 12 HP + 0 and then pick any class after that.
Alternately: standard human.
12 12 10 12 12 15
13 13 11 13 13 16.
Pick something and off you go.
The reason I put 16 in Charisma: it is the casting stat for
Sorcerer, Paladin, Bard, Warlock and it's handy for social stuff; pick one of the three.
Since you have to pick one of each class, why not use a stat that gives lots of bang for your spell DC buck?
Caution: this one's a little bit of a glass cannon HP wise.
Choosing Sorcerer as first level boosts HP by 1 (Draconic) and gets Con save proficiency.

My other suggestion would be to take Hill Dwarf as opening racial choice.

Wasnt one of the requirements to use the new normal stat increases? floating +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1?

KorvinStarmast
2023-09-21, 02:27 PM
Dropping CON down to 10 (same modifier) gets you a 14 in STR, DEX, INT, or WIS.
Not a bad idea.
I'd go with Dex, but going with Wis makes for a compelling case to start as cleric. (DC 14 isn't awesome in a level 1 cleric, but it's doable and the medium armor and shield pays off in the long run)

Wasnt one of the requirements to use the new normal stat increases? floating +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1?
I don't care. Someone else brought up standard human (RogueJK) and I followed up on that.

You are welcome to read my first two posts in the thread to see my initial suggestions.

thoroughlyS
2023-09-21, 02:38 PM
Wasnt one of the requirements to use the new normal stat increases? floating +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1?
No, the only stipulation regarding stats was using 27 point buy (as opposed to "rolling" six 15s, etc.). Half-elf, mountain dwarf, and human are all legal options, as they are officially published with no errata (at least until 2024). And the Customizing your Lineage rules from TCoE are also allowed.

Skrum
2023-09-21, 04:05 PM
To be honest this doesn’t even seem like it would be too bad. You can cover most problems early with careful race or class selection (AC mostly) and a single attack with a weapon will be competitive, even if you don’t have the best to-hit.

Especially if you pick up a stat setting or stat boosting magic item along the way and can tailor your later levels around that, it should be eminently playable.

I've been confounded by this kind of build before, so I really get the impulse, but no, this is terrible. With 1 level in 8 classes, it's easy to forget you're an 8th level character. A collection of 1st level abilities and bad stats does not equip you to fight an aboleth (CR 10), a djinni (CR 11), a mind flayer (CR 7), or young dragons (CR 7-10). Your allies are using banishment, sickening radiance, and hypnotic pattern and you're still goofing around with sleep and burning hands (and whoopty do, you can upcast it).

Willowhelm
2023-09-21, 04:22 PM
I've been confounded by this kind of build before, so I really get the impulse, but no, this is terrible. With 1 level in 8 classes, it's easy to forget you're an 8th level character. A collection of 1st level abilities and bad stats does not equip you to fight an aboleth (CR 10), a djinni (CR 11), a mind flayer (CR 7), or young dragons (CR 7-10). Your allies are using banishment, sickening radiance, and hypnotic pattern and you're still goofing around with sleep and burning hands (and whoopty do, you can upcast it).

YMMV but if you have a single solid attack cantrip or weapon attack… and you’re concentrating on bless or something similar… I think you’re doing just fine. You can have a solid AC, a so-so damage option, a worthwhile concentration spell without a problem. That’s not outclassing a standard 8th lvl char but it’s also not useless.

I played a PC with 4 classes by lvl 8 and it was fine for my table. The suggested builds in this thread would also be fine at my table. Hell… they’re better than the straight class builds my friends are playing!

Skrum
2023-09-21, 05:21 PM
YMMV but if you have a single solid attack cantrip or weapon attack… and you’re concentrating on bless or something similar… I think you’re doing just fine. You can have a solid AC, a so-so damage option, a worthwhile concentration spell without a problem. That’s not outclassing a standard 8th lvl char but it’s also not useless.

I played a PC with 4 classes by lvl 8 and it was fine for my table. The suggested builds in this thread would also be fine at my table. Hell… they’re better than the straight class builds my friends are playing!

This build wouldn't have a damage option though...a cantrip with +5 to hit would be it. Can't take 2 levels of warlock so even agonizing blast is off the table.

EB would still be the best option, for a whopping...6.6 DPR. With no rider effect. At level 8.

Nothing is truly unplayable cause the game can be run down to the lowest common denominator, but this character would be noticably out of place at any table where players aren't intentionally making bad/weak build choices.

thoroughlyS
2023-09-21, 05:30 PM
This build wouldn't have a damage option though...a cantrip with +5 to hit would be it. Can't take 2 levels of warlock so even agonizing blast is off the table.

EB would still be the best option, for a whopping...6.6 DPR. With no rider effect. At level 8.
That's why my version of the build goes order cleric. On my turn, I cast bless/protection from Evil and Good/shield of faith on the rogue, and now they can use their reaction to sneak attack the aboleth/djinni/young dragon for the second time this round. Or the barbarian gets another great weapon master attack, or the paladin gets another smite, etc.

Willowhelm
2023-09-21, 05:59 PM
This build wouldn't have a damage option though...a cantrip with +5 to hit would be it. Can't take 2 levels of warlock so even agonizing blast is off the table.

EB would still be the best option, for a whopping...6.6 DPR. With no rider effect. At level 8.

Nothing is truly unplayable cause the game can be run down to the lowest common denominator, but this character would be noticably out of place at any table where players aren't intentionally making bad/weak build choices.

If you take all the usually pointlessly OP things from optimiser builds I don’t think that’s a realistic number. I haven’t done the math so I could be wrong. I think when you’ve given yourself the handicap, it’s fair to bring all the optimising things into play to stay competitive (if that’s needed for fun at your table).

Please note I am typing this on mobile and I can’t remember the original restrictions but:

Have an owl familiar from your wizard level - advantage
Emboldening bond and bless from (peace) cleric - to hit looking better with +2d4 (I think?)
Sneak attack from rogue level.
Maybe use a hand crossbow(this be a cha based this from hexblade at this point I think).
If you could take custom lineage you could have sharpshooter on that attack, maybe CBE will be more use with the additional attack?
Don’t forget hexblade curse on them too…
Or if you find you don’t need bless, maybe a hex or something? Odds are the bless will help the total party dpr more though I expect?

So… the character is probably contributing more than just 6.6 dpr? Especially if you consider the whole party, rather than just the single character.

At lvl 8 would the DM have given some magic items maybe?

I think you also underestimate the low bar set at some tables. My friends aren’t deliberately choosing bad/weak choices. They’re choosing stuff that seems fun… with (in some cases) no thought at all to “strength”. The paladin hasn’t even chosen spells!

Skrum
2023-09-21, 06:08 PM
That's why my version of the build goes order cleric. On my turn, I cast bless/protection from Evil and Good/shield of faith on the rogue, and now they can use their reaction to sneak attack the aboleth/djinni/young dragon for the second time this round. Or the barbarian gets another great weapon master attack, or the paladin gets another smite, etc.

A smart move, considering the constraints of the build, but hardly up to the task of making this mess playable.

The slightly better move would probably be healing word - cast as a bonus every turn, healing someone for 1d4+1, triggering Order cleric, and then you can still take the dodge action or do 6.6 damage. You'll have enough slots to do this most rounds.

This is still terrible btw lol

Sorry, this is somewhat far afield of the OP