Getting an Insanely High caster level for a True Ressurection

[Feantar]

I was reading through Eberron, and just had the weird idea of ressurecting Erandis Vol. For those who don't know, Erandis Vol is an unwilling (sorta) lich, who seems to want to come back to life for complicated reasons (she has an innate power that doesn't work when she's undead). So, let's just assume that the lich in question is willing. Let's also assume that only ressurection magic works in this case - no clone or reincarnation.

The problem is, that even with True Ressurection, you get 10 years per caster level. And Erandis has been dead for 3598 years. Rounding up to 3600, you'd need a caster level of 360. Now, Circle magic can get us up to 40, and with Greater Consumptive Field we can push that to 60... and with various boni, let's say 70? 75? Not even close. Any ideas?

Disclaimer: This is just a mental excercise - I am not participating in an Eberron game and am not planning of inflicting the results of this research to my DM. I might use it in a future game I DM, as a plot point, if it seems interesting though.

[loky1109]

Restoration domain (DCS), Arcane Disciple feat, hivemind with four swarms of tiny creatures via Vermin Lord (BoVD).

[Feantar]

Restoration domain (DCS), Arcane Disciple feat, hivemind with four swarms of tiny creatures via Vermin Lord (BoVD).

I am a bit lost on how the hivemind thing works on CL, can you elaborate?

[Crake]

If I recall correctly, you can keep recasting greater consumptive field and each time your caster level will continue to rise, so at 40 you cast it to get to 60, at 60 you cast to get it to 90, at 90 you cast to get it to 135, and so on

[Biggus]

Arguably if you cast Greater Consumptive Field multiple times, you can multiply your caster level by 1.5 repeatedly, as your increased caster level from the previous spell becomes your original caster level for the new one. I wouldn't allow it in a real game and I suspect most other DMs wouldn't either, but as this is purely theoretical...

A couple of threads discussing how to get insanely high caster levels:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?105433-3-5-Max-caster-level

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/138521/what-methods-exist-to-get-infinite-or-extremely-high-caster-level-prior-to-epic

[Troacctid]

The best way would probably be to use an eldritch machine (ECS 273). That's what I would do.

[redking]

Cosmic Descryer with the cosmic connection ability.

[Anthrowhale]

Consider a Trickster Spellthief 1/Warmage 1/Wizard(Specialist) 3/Beguiler 1/Bard 1/Warmage 1/Wu-Jen 1/Duskblade 1/Sha'ir 1/Death Master 1/Magewright 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Jester 1/Witch 1/Hoardstealer 1/Ebonmar Infiltrator 1/Chameleon 1/Sublime Chord 1
with Theurgic Specialist and Master Spellthief as feats.

Master Spellthief makes the caster level of each arcane class 20.

Theurgic Specialist makes your caster level in the specialist school 20(caster level)*18(classes)=360.

[Crake]

Arguably if you cast Greater Consumptive Field multiple times, you can multiply your caster level by 1.5 repeatedly, as your increased caster level from the previous spell becomes your original caster level for the new one. I wouldn't allow it in a real game and I suspect most other DMs wouldn't either, but as this is purely theoretical...

A couple of threads discussing how to get insanely high caster levels:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?105433-3-5-Max-caster-level

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/138521/what-methods-exist-to-get-infinite-or-extremely-high-caster-level-prior-to-epic

Probably in violation of grods law, but the way I would make it work is that, sure you can keep recasting consumptive field, but since they dont stack, you need to go up from your base CL every time, so the limiting factor becomes how many creatures you can consume before the duration expires each time. (Im pretty sure this is the actual way its supposed to work tbh)

40-60 isnt too bad, just 20 creatures, but then 40-90 is getting tougher, thats 50 creatures now, and 70 creatures total. 40-135 is 85 creatures now, and 155 total. Numbers start adding up. Gets even harder if you start at lower CLs

[Feantar]

If I recall correctly, you can keep recasting greater consumptive field and each time your caster level will continue to rise, so at 40 you cast it to get to 60, at 60 you cast to get it to 90, at 90 you cast to get it to 135, and so on


Arguably if you cast Greater Consumptive Field multiple times, you can multiply your caster level by 1.5 repeatedly, (...)


Probably in violation of grods law, but the way I would make it work is that, sure you can keep recasting consumptive field, but since they dont stack, you need to go up from your base CL every time, so the limiting factor becomes how many creatures you can consume (...)

While I get that you shouldn't generally make a powerful option inconvienient to use as a balancing factor, this fits the concept of mass sacrifices so much I'd call it a feature not a bug. Ah, so you could just, I dunno, get 1000 toads (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/toad.htm) in cages or something, then slowly cart them forward as you keep recasting greater consumptive field (it auto kills them, as they have less than 9 HP), with probably a boatload of pearls of power (Expensive) or some other way to consistently regain spellslots (or DMM persist and Extend, and multiple days of recasting). That's actually feasible, and fits the necromantic theme.


Consider a Trickster Spellthief 1/Warmage 1/Wizard(Specialist) 3/Beguiler 1/Bard 1/Warmage 1/Wu-Jen 1/Duskblade 1/Sha'ir 1/Death Master 1/Magewright 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Jester 1/Witch 1/Hoardstealer 1/Ebonmar Infiltrator 1/Chameleon 1/Sublime Chord 1
with Theurgic Specialist and Master Spellthief as feats.

Master Spellthief makes the caster level of each arcane class 20.

Theurgic Specialist makes your caster level in the specialist school 20(caster level)*18(classes)=360.

I... I mean. Yes. Technically this is correct, I am just struggling to figure out how such a person could reach this level :P If you had them fight a CR appropritate threat, they'd be toast. Wouldn't adding Ur-Priest to this add quite a few more CLs? (Due to the CL Ur Priests gain from other classes).


The best way would probably be to use an eldritch machine (ECS 273). That's what I would do.

That was my initial thought, but I kind of liked the idea that this person didn't use knowledge from the past long lost. They demonstrated that they could just brute force the solution with current methods. Still, it's more thematically appropriate for Eberron. Something like the Auditorium of Stars: An amphitheatric structure seemingly made of Siberys Dragonshards; when a mass ritual is cast, it begins to reweave itself - the seats seem to flow through each other, dancing to a soundless tune - in reality they are repositioning each participant according to the Ring of Siberys, mimicking the dance of the dragonshards composing it - any rituals cast using the Auditorium remove the limitations for Circle Magic. And voila, get 300 or so casters and you're golden.

Thanks everyone! At least I can see it's possible now. If someone else has another idea not based on these, feel free to share :smallsmile:

[Crake]

While I get that you shouldn't generally make a powerful option inconvienient to use as a balancing factor, this fits the concept of mass sacrifices so much I'd call it a feature not a bug.

Yeah, thats why I said I wasnt sure if it would necessarily come under grods law or not. Im sure SOME people would see it as a violation, while others would consider it thematically appropriate

[loky1109]

I am a bit lost on how the hivemind thing works on CL, can you elaborate?

Every 20 creatures beyond first 50 and every 50 beyond 150 add +1 Cha. After 17 Cha every point of Cha also gives 1 level of sorcerer casting.

[ShurikVch]

For supernatural abilities, CL=HD

Take Magical Beast, and spam on them Awaken Magical Beast (Dragon #304) until it's 360+ HD (spell required target's Int no higher than 3 - thus, zap 'em with Ray of Stupidity :smallwink:)

Half-Celestial of 19+ HD got 1/day Resurrection SLA; with Supernatural Transformation, it would be Resurrection (Su)

[Paragon]

Ah, so you could just, I dunno, get 1000 toads in cages or something, then slowly cart them forward as you keep recasting greater consumptive field (it auto kills them, as they have less than 9 HP), with probably a boatload of pearls of power (Expensive) or some other way to consistently regain spellslots (or DMM persist and Extend, and multiple days of recasting). That's actually feasible, and fits the necromantic theme.


Let's nitpick a bit :)

Circle Magic + Consumptive Field abuse
The combo isn't easily obtained since you want a wizard for Red Wizard PrC or a good alignment for Hathran PrC (which are the both PrCs able to have up to 9 participants) and you need Cleric 7 for both Greater Consumptive Field (GCF) and Resurrection.

Moving on the CF abuse
Multiple castings of the same spell won't stack.
Casting GCF when you're CL 20 means you get CL 30. Casting it again from CL30 means you get a +15 bonus to CL instead of the +10 you had previously meaning you get to 35 (and not 45). Repeating this operation will end up in you being stuck at some point (CL 39 in this case).

What you can do is cumulate the boni from Death Knell, CF and GCF.

Assuming the CL20 we had before.
Casting CF nets us +10 to CL then GCF nets us +15 over our CL 30 which is 45. Cast Death Knell for a CL 46

Casting CF a second time changes the bonus we had from +10 to +23 meaning our actual CL goes up 13 points from 46 to 59
Casting GCF a second time changes the bonus we had from +15 to +29 meaning our actual CL goes up 14 points from 59 to 73.

So a CL of 73 for 2 iterations
A third iteration brings us to 100
A fourth, to 128
...
If you want to reach around CL360 you can do this for 12 iterations for CL 352 or 13 for CL 380

Meaning you'd need 13 spells slots of 7th lvl or higher and 13 spell slots of 4th lvl or higher.
An actual Cleric at level 20 with 30 Wis has 15 spells slots of 7th level or higher (and even more 4th level or higher) so it IS doable even without any memento magic stuff.

The math is detailed here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qnLYRYy_fKvGkxFufEOnp3LCNqbFgBztMX2BUkC2qLE/edit?usp=sharing)

[Anthrowhale]

...

There are a couple levels by which a DM can be more conservative. One is by not allowing GCF to accumulate with the caster level bonus of GCF. Under that interpretation, you can still get nigh-infinite caster level, but it's a slower rate of growth (detailed here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?527654-Death-Cults-a-BBEG-guide)). An even more conservative form is to treat CF/GCF as an abstract multiplier, implying the x1.5+x1.5 = x2. I used that in the nuke thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?621105-The-best-nuke) which limited out at caster level 143.

[Biggus]

with probably a boatload of pearls of power (Expensive) or some other way to consistently regain spellslots


If you allow it accumulate as above, you only need six castings to get from CL 40 to 360 (40> 60> 90> 135> 202> 303> 454).


Let's nitpick a bit :)

Circle Magic + Consumptive Field abuse
The combo isn't easily obtained since you want a wizard for Red Wizard PrC or a good alignment for Hathran PrC (which are the both PrCs able to have up to 9 participants) and you need Cleric 7 for both Greater Consumptive Field (GCF) and Resurrection.

With early-entry tricks you could do it by level 19 (Wizard 1 Cleric 3 Mystic Theurge 10 Red Wizard 5 with Southern Magician).



Moving on the CF abuse
Multiple castings of the same spell won't stack.
Casting GCF when you're CL 20 means you get CL 30. Casting it again from CL30 means you get a +15 bonus to CL instead of the +10 you had previously meaning you get to 35 (and not 45). Repeating this operation will end up in you being stuck at some point (CL 39 in this case).


That's how I'd interpret it (if I allowed multiple castings to work at all), but I know a lot of other people see it differently, which is why I said "arguably".

[Gruftzwerg]

Assuming the CL20 we had before.
Casting CF nets us +10 to CL then GCF nets us +15 over our CL 30 which is 45. Cast Death Knell for a CL 46

1. CF doesn't change your "original caster level", it simply adds on top of it. So if you cast CF and later GCF you "original caster level" is still the same. GCF doesn't profit from CF here.

2. GCF and CF can't stack since GCF calls out that it "functions like consumptive field". And since you can't stack CF with itself, neither does it stack with GCF. They simply overlap just like 2 castings of the same spell.




Every 20 creatures beyond first 50 and every 50 beyond 150 add +1 Cha. After 17 Cha every point of Cha also gives 1 level of sorcerer casting.

I agree that Hivemind seems to be the easiest option so far. Just get a big swarm and effectively cast spells for free (since there is no limit how often you can disband and recreate a new hivemind).

[Paragon]

With early-entry tricks you could do it by level 19 (Wizard 1 Cleric 3 Mystic Theurge 10 Red Wizard 5 with Southern Magician).

Well, that's precoccious apprentice entry I see and it's not legal because of the infamous second part of the feat's text.


1. CF doesn't change your "original caster level", it simply adds on top of it. So if you cast CF and later GCF you "original caster level" is still the same. GCF doesn't profit from CF here.
So do you count Beads of Karma in "original caster level" ? What about Spell Power +1 class feature ? What about additional class levels at all ? Surely since the first time you get a caster level, at Wizard 1 for instance, it has to be your original caster level.

Barring this nonsense, it's perfectly sane to argue that the "original caster level" in this spell has been introduced to differentiate it from the "effective caster level" to make the meaning clearer. (effective CL isn't defined either).



2. GCF and CF can't stack since GCF calls out that it "functions like consumptive field". And since you can't stack CF with itself, neither does it stack with GCF. They simply overlap just like 2 castings of the same spell.

Y functions likes X means exactly what it does ; X and Y are different sources which is all we need. The fact that one has the same mechanical behavior than the other isn't enough to have it be equal
The same stuff happened with the "as if they had the XXX feat" and actually having the feat and this is why S&F and SaS have the Virtual Feat clause, to patch this up.

[Crake]

Moving on the CF abuse
Multiple castings of the same spell won't stack.
Casting GCF when you're CL 20 means you get CL 30. Casting it again from CL30 means you get a +15 bonus to CL instead of the +10 you had previously meaning you get to 35 (and not 45). Repeating this operation will end up in you being stuck at some point (CL 39 in this case).

Right, I KNEW there was some diminishing returns that I couldn't quite remember why or how it occured! In my defense I was at work, so my maths was super rushed, but yeah, this is what actually stops you from going to insane caster levels with CF, each time you cast it, the amount you gain goes up slightly, but it doesn't change the starting point, so 40 would go to 60, but then 60 would only go to 70, not 90, because half of 60 is 30, but that 30 doesn't get added to the 60, it gets added to the 40.


So do you count Beads of Karma in "original caster level" ? What about Spell Power +1 class feature ? What about additional class levels at all ? Surely since the first time you get a caster level, at Wizard 1 for instance, it has to be your original caster level.

Barring this nonsense, it's perfectly sane to argue that the "original caster level" in this spell has been introduced to differentiate it from the "effective caster level" to make the meaning clearer. (effective CL isn't defined either).

I think in the context of the spell, it's fairly obvious that it means "the caster level you had when you originally cast the spell", as opposed to "your modified caster level due to the bonuses of the spell".

[Promethean]

There's also the out of the box method:
Have a wizard cast Teleport through Time and nab Erandis at a point Before she'd require a massive caster level to resurrect.

Otherwise, the highest caster-level I've Ever seen legitly done is 272(found here (https://www.enworld.org/threads/red-wizard-handbook-lormador.471391/)). Using Consumptive loop abuse to push to a x2 multiplier on that step(308 CL), end up with a class 25 node(616 years for it to fully manifest and DC 130 to use the node... Good Luck), and end with 358 caster level. It's 2 shy of your end goal with the other issue being that you required CL also jumped by 62 again waiting for the node to spawn.

Teleport through time seems like your only option.

[Elenian]

Um. Hm. Sanctified One of Wee Jas with an int bonus of 300? (Getting to Eberron left as an exercise for the int +300 high priestess of Wee Jas.)
Now, I have no earthly idea how you get 600-odd int, since I believe the highest printed int stat in the game is 74, but probably there's some method involving kobolds or shambling mounds or aging cursed tome dragons or other obnoxious optimizery.

Cosmic Descryer mentioned above certainly seems like the most elegant method, though.

[Prime32]

Alternate way of restoring Erandis to life: Expose her to evil energies until she gains the CorruptedBoVD template, changing her type from undead to aberration.

That still leaves her without a Con score though, so it might not count.

From there you can (temporarily) turn her into a humanoid by sticking some House Cannith limbs on her to turn her into a half-golem, followed by casting greater humanoid essence. Soulfused construct won't work because the construct has to be mindless (and removing her Int score then setting a new one would presumably create an entirely new person).

[Biggus]

Well, that's precoccious apprentice entry I see and it's not legal because of the infamous second part of the feat's text.


No, it's Southern Magician entry, that's why I said "with Southern Magician"...

[Anthrowhale]

If you kill (destroy?) the undead in a manner which leaves the body intact, you can cast Animate with the Spirit to get a living creature. When that spell ends, you can cast Last Breath or Revivify to bring the creature back to life.

[Fero]

Um. Hm. Sanctified One of Wee Jas with an int bonus of 300? (Getting to Eberron left as an exercise for the int +300 high priestess of Wee Jas.)
Now, I have no earthly idea how you get 600-odd int, since I believe the highest printed int stat in the game is 74, but probably there's some method involving kobolds or shambling mounds or aging cursed tome dragons or other obnoxious optimizery.

Cosmic Descryer mentioned above certainly seems like the most elegant method, though.

An Extended, Chained, Reach Power Leech (BoVD) may get your int to 600. Get to CL 15 to drain 30 Int from each of 20 Black Etherguants. If the bonuses combine, you would get +600 Int for a while.

[Promethean]

Um. Hm. Sanctified One of Wee Jas with an int bonus of 300? (Getting to Eberron left as an exercise for the int +300 high priestess of Wee Jas.)

Knowledge of the World Serpent Inn actually makes this rather easy.
A character Getting knowledge of the World Serpent Inn without heavy meta-gaming is the complicated part.

[Feantar]

Every 20 creatures beyond first 50 and every 50 beyond 150 add +1 Cha. After 17 Cha every point of Cha also gives 1 level of sorcerer casting.

So... fine crearture swarms for the win?


For supernatural abilities, CL=HD

Take Magical Beast, and spam on them Awaken Magical Beast (Dragon #304) until it's 360+ HD (spell required target's Int no higher than 3 - thus, zap 'em with Ray of Stupidity :smallwink:)

Half-Celestial of 19+ HD got 1/day Resurrection SLA; with Supernatural Transformation, it would be Resurrection (Su)

I did not remember the HD = CL of supernatural abilities!


Let's nitpick a bit :)

Circle Magic + Consumptive Field abuse
The combo isn't easily obtained since you want a wizard for Red Wizard PrC or a good alignment for Hathran PrC (which are the both PrCs able to have up to 9 participants) and you need Cleric 7 for both Greater Consumptive Field (GCF) and Resurrection.


Cleric 7 (with Southern Magician) Halruuan Elder 5 / the rest to anything that advances cleric casting? In Eberron clerics aren't limited by alignment based casting, I think. (Yes, it's FR focused, but so are Red Wizards and Hathrans)


1. CF doesn't change your "original caster level", it simply adds on top of it. So if you cast CF and later GCF you "original caster level" is still the same. GCF doesn't profit from CF here.


I don't think that's what the spell means by original caster level - at least not necessarily.


There's also the out of the box method:
Have a wizard cast Teleport through Time and nab Erandis at a point Before she'd require a massive caster level to resurrect.

Teleport through time seems like your only option.

I thought it was explicit that teleport through time can't change the past, no? Otherwise it would be the universal solution to everything.

[Promethean]

I thought it was explicit that teleport through time can't change the past, no? Otherwise it would be the universal solution to everything.

No, that's a suggested rule to make the spell easier on DMs. It's about as RAW as arcane swordsage.
Even if the DM does follow the rule, it just means the PCs can teleport through time to grab a living erandis vol for whatever purpose they need now and the time-magic handwavium will teleport them back when the plot is resolved. The wizard won't even have to waste a spell-slot to do it themselves.

[Gruftzwerg]

So do you count Beads of Karma in "original caster level" ? What about Spell Power +1 class feature ? What about additional class levels at all ? Surely since the first time you get a caster level, at Wizard 1 for instance, it has to be your original caster level.

Regarding Beads of Karma:
While my current TO build also uses CL increasing Items before casting Consumptive Field, I gotten unsure abut it during this discussion and upon rereading the spell's description more carefully again.
But more below...



Barring this nonsense, it's perfectly sane to argue that the "original caster level" in this spell has been introduced to differentiate it from the "effective caster level" to make the meaning clearer. (effective CL isn't defined either).
From a pure RAW point of view the limit of the spell is expressed as multiplication! And for that, we always use the base unmodified value according to the 3.5 multiplication rules. I don't see how (G)CF could trumps those rules.

From a pure logical point of view (not RAW!), I think it would be the best solution to include permanent/persisted bonuses as you would too for additional spells from a high casting stat. But I would definitively always avoid temporary bonuses for CF's calculation. Thus permanent bonuses like Beads of Karma and Ion Stone should imho work, but I dunno if we have any rule base for this...
(Reminder @myself: Need to address this in my Pacman build's rule section...)


Y functions likes X means exactly what it does ; X and Y are different sources which is all we need. The fact that one has the same mechanical behavior than the other isn't enough to have it be equal
The same stuff happened with the "as if they had the XXX feat" and actually having the feat and this is why S&F and SaS have the Virtual Feat clause, to patch this up.
To "function like X" requires that all interactions work the same:

Compatibility and stackability are part of how something Functions/Interacts.

Consumptive field can't stack with itself, which means it ain't compatible with itself. Thus Greater Consumptive Field can't stack with Consumptive Field. Otherwise it wouldn't function the same.

"function the same as XXX" ain't always beneficial as said.



I don't think that's what the spell means by original caster level - at least not necessarily.

See above. As said, imho it should be at least a persisted or permanent increase to have a good houserule here (maybe its RAI, we don't know..). But RAW it looks bad as of know, unless someone can dig up some forgotten rules(?).

[ExLibrisMortis]

Illumian (krau sigil) wizard (necromancer) 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 10/loremaster 4
Loremaster advancing cleric
Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell), Easy Metamagic (Persistent Spell), Theurgic Specialist (necromancy), Practiced Spellcaster (wizard)
staff of body outside body
Enough ranks in UMD to activate the staff

Cast Persistent suffer the flesh (a 7th-level wizard spell).
Cast create magic tattoo.

Initial wizard CL: 25 = 17 base + 2 Krau sigil + 5 suffer the flesh + 1 create magic tattoo.
Initial cleric CL: 25 = 17 base + 2 Krau sigil + 5 suffer the flesh + 1 create magic tattoo.

Initial consumptive field CL: 50 = 25 wizard + 25 cleric.
Initial consumptive field bonus: +25.

Secondary wizard CL is +25 higher.
Secondary cleric CL is +25 higher.
Secondary consumptive field is +50 higher.
Secondary consumptive field bonus is +25 higher.

Hence, tertiary wizard CL is... (you get the idea).

Body outside body provides 1/5 clone/CL, which allows you to easily feed the fields without running out of creatures or taking many actions to kill them. (Body outside body clones explicitly obey suicidal orders.) You will need to cast heal on yourself several times. Persistent mass vigour is helpful, too.

Note that the CL boosts from each consumptive field do not stack. You cast higher-CL fields with each iteration, and that increases the maximum boost, but all the bonuses overlap.

It'll probably take a few days to loop up to CL 360, since you'll get about two or three Persistent consumptive fields per day--they take 9th-level slots. If you want to loop up faster, grab Arcane Thesis for the field to bring your 8ths into play.

[Vaern]

Is it necessary for this to be done pre-epic? You can achieve your goal by starting with the epic spell seed Life and increasing the spellcraft DC to a mere 367. This extends the time limit of the spell from 200 to 3,600. You can then start applying mitigating factors to try making that 367 reasonably attainable as soon as you hit 21:

Increase casting time from 1 minute to 10 minutes = -9
Increase casting time from 10 minutes to 100 days = -100
Burn 20k XP when casting = -200
42d6 backlash damage = -42
Reduce damage die size from 42d6 to 42d4 = -5
Make it a ritual and have one other person in your party contribute a 9th level spell slot, assuming you're in a standard party with an arcane caster, a divine caster, a skill monkey, and a meat slab = -17

5 + 9 + 17 + 42 + 100 + 200 = 373; 367 - 373 = -6* (or -1, if that cheese doesn't fly). Since the crafting time and cost is based on the spellcraft DC, the development of this resurrection spell is free and instantaneous (actually, it results in you gaining 54,000 GP and 2,160 XP, while learning the spell a day before you started researching it).

And now for your Spellcraft bonuses:

Assume 24 ranks of spellcraft with +14 int bonus for a +38
90k for an item to grant a +30 competence bonus = +68
90k for an item to grant a +30 enhancement bonus* = +98 (a few rare instances of items that grant enhancement bonuses rather than competence bonuses to skill checks indicate that the cost is the same; DM may shoot this item down)
Masterwork tool, whatever that may be for spellcraft, for a +2 circumstance bonus for a total bonus of +100

It's worth noting at this point that I'm too lazy at just this moment to look up epic WBL and subtract the cost of all of the equipment this character would need in order to determine the actual remaining budget for epic spell development. The +100 bonus and negative skill DC gives a lot of wiggle room to play with. You can easily slash the casting time in half and cut out the backlash damage entirely without having to worry at all about the spell failing. I think it's reasonable to assume, though, that a level 21 character would simply not have enough gold to create a spell of the highest possible DC he can cast.

[Feantar]

Is it necessary for this to be done pre-epic? You can achieve your goal by starting with the epic spell seed Life and increasing the spellcraft DC to a mere 367. This extends the time limit of the spell from 200 to 3,600. You can then start applying mitigating factors to try making that 367 reasonably attainable as soon as you hit 21:

Increase casting time from 1 minute to 10 minutes = -9
Increase casting time from 10 minutes to 100 days = -100
Burn 20k XP when casting = -200
42d6 backlash damage = -42
Reduce damage die size from 42d6 to 42d4 = -5
Make it a ritual and have one other person in your party contribute a 9th level spell slot, assuming you're in a standard party with an arcane caster, a divine caster, a skill monkey, and a meat slab = -17

5 + 9 + 17 + 42 + 100 + 200 = 373; 367 - 373 = -6* (or -1, if that cheese doesn't fly). Since the crafting time and cost is based on the spellcraft DC, the development of this resurrection spell is free and instantaneous (actually, it results in you gaining 54,000 GP and 2,160 XP, while learning the spell a day before you started researching it).

And now for your Spellcraft bonuses:

Assume 24 ranks of spellcraft with +14 int bonus for a +38
90k for an item to grant a +30 competence bonus = +68
90k for an item to grant a +30 enhancement bonus* = +98 (a few rare instances of items that grant enhancement bonuses rather than competence bonuses to skill checks indicate that the cost is the same; DM may shoot this item down)
Masterwork tool, whatever that may be for spellcraft, for a +2 circumstance bonus for a total bonus of +100

It's worth noting at this point that I'm too lazy at just this moment to look up epic WBL and subtract the cost of all of the equipment this character would need in order to determine the actual remaining budget for epic spell development. The +100 bonus and negative skill DC gives a lot of wiggle room to play with. You can easily slash the casting time in half and cut out the backlash damage entirely without having to worry at all about the spell failing. I think it's reasonable to assume, though, that a level 21 character would simply not have enough gold to create a spell of the highest possible DC he can cast.

It was meant to be pre-epic yes, but it's useful to have an option open. Can't you cheese the rolls with high CL scrolls of Guidance of the Avatar and Divine Insight, to reduce the need for super powerful items? Also, this being Eberron, finding an artificer that can alter the competence bonus to enhancement with, admittedly, one of the most exploitable artificer infusions is quite possible, so there's no need to pay extra to get an enhancement bonus item.

[ShurikVch]

If you want to venture this way, there is the Dark Resurrection spell (Call of Cthulhu d20), which have no pesky time limit, but people brought to life with it are suffering from the Came Back Wrong (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CameBackWrong) complication (there is the reason why this spell is paired with the Return to Rest in most tomes :smallwink:)

[Feantar]

If you want to venture this way, there is the Dark Resurrection spell (Call of Cthulhu d20), which have no pesky time limit, but people brought to life with it are suffering from the Came Back Wrong (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CameBackWrong) complication (there is the reason why this spell is paired with the Return to Rest in most tomes :smallwink:)

I shudder to think how Erandis Vol can come back wrong... although, in her case, that might be an improvement? No idea.

[Promethean]

I shudder to think how Erandis Vol can come back wrong... although, in her case, that might be an improvement? No idea.

Yeah, being a NE undead is an order of magnitude worse than the effects of Dark Resurrection(basically gives you a point of ability damage and a "madness point"/Heroes of Horror Taint equivalent).
It'd be an improvement.

[Gorthawar]

All the math is a bit too complicated for me and there might be a flaw in the logic but I thought the following might help.

A cleric of kiaransalee 13 / nar demonbinder 1 / yathrinshee 6 (you probably need flaws etc to pull it off) would have a cleric CL of 17, demonbinder CL of 22 and a combined CL of 39 for necromancy spells.

1 casting of consumptive field with a CL of 39 should increase cleric CL by 19 to 36 which in turn increase demonbinder CL to 41 and a combined CL for necromancy of 77.

You might be able to combine this with some of the earlier ideas to get where you need to be. A bonus is that anything you kill with your consumptive field comes back as a zombie under your control.

Why a cleric of a lunatic drow goddess of vengeance and undeath from faerun would want to resurrect a lich god from eberron is a different story though. :)

[Paragon]

All the math is a bit too complicated for me and there might be a flaw in the logic but I thought the following might help.

A cleric of kiaransalee 13 / nar demonbinder 1 / yathrinshee 6 (you probably need flaws etc to pull it off) would have a cleric CL of 17, demonbinder CL of 22 and a combined CL of 39 for necromancy spells.

1 casting of consumptive field with a CL of 39 should increase cleric CL by 19 to 36 which in turn increase demonbinder CL to 41 and a combined CL for necromancy of 77.

You might be able to combine this with some of the earlier ideas to get where you need to be. A bonus is that anything you kill with your consumptive field comes back as a zombie under your control.

Why a cleric of a lunatic drow goddess of vengeance and undeath from faerun would want to resurrect a lich god from eberron is a different story though. :)

I did the full maths earlier ^^

[Feantar]

I did the full maths earlier ^^

When are we ever going to use these professor? Well, when you're trying to figure out how to resurrect an unliving goddess, thus changing the flow ot history, obviously. And taxes, sometimes, I guess. :biggrin:

[Gorthawar]

I did the full maths earlier ^^

If I'm not mistaken your math only showed the effect of cumulative castings of consumptive field on a single class caster. ExLibrisMortis then had a case of adding the bonus from consumptive field to 2 caster classes via theurgic specialist. I've simply added the oddity that is nar demonbinder which gets its own CL based on another classes CL. As such the scaling up should be faster and potentially doesn't have the problem of diminishing returns and therefore increasing infinitely.

Clr13/Ndb1/Yath6
Cleric CL 17
Ndb 17+5=22
Necromancy= 17+22=39
After 1 consumptive field (+19CL)
Cleric CL 36
Ndb 36+5+19=60
Necromancy 36+60=96

Bonus that it's not using dragon content and gets a lot of free zombies so I thought it's kinda neat.

[Telonius]

There might be another way to go about this. If all you want is a living Vol, why not just get one? Teleport Through Time back to a point where she's still alive. (You might need multiple castings). Leave a "duplicate" (several ways to get somebody to have her memories and believe she's Vol), so the timeline is intact. Then Plane Shift to some fast-moving time plane, or find some other way to stay in stasis until the present.

[Paragon]

There might be another way to go about this. If all you want is a living Vol, why not just get one? Teleport Through Time back to a point where she's still alive. (You might need multiple castings). Leave a "duplicate" (several ways to get somebody to have her memories and believe she's Vol), so the timeline is intact. Then Plane Shift to some fast-moving time plane, or find some other way to stay in stasis until the present.

This was pointed out earlier. Though the cloning thing, that's new

[ExLibrisMortis]

If I'm not mistaken your math only showed the effect of cumulative castings of consumptive field on a single class caster. ExLibrisMortis then had a case of adding the bonus from consumptive field to 2 caster classes via theurgic specialist. I've simply added the oddity that is nar demonbinder which gets its own CL based on another classes CL. As such the scaling up should be faster and potentially doesn't have the problem of diminishing returns and therefore increasing infinitely.
Nar Demonbinder CL is based on class levels in another class, not caster level. That said, you can get the same effect by simply adding a third casting class to the mystic theurge build I posted--it only takes one level.

With two classes, you add your consumptive field bonus to your next field's CL twice. Since the bonus granted by the field equals half your CL, you effectively add your base CL to your CL with each iteration. That means there are no diminishing returns--it just takes a while to get to 3600.

With three classes, you add your consumptive field bonus to your next field's CL three times. Since half of three times the boost is one-and-a-half times the boost, you end up increasing the boost with each iteration--you get exponential scaling. Adding more classes increases the base of the exponent. (You can imagine that an Ur-Priest 1/mystic theurge 8 with three levels in necromancer and eight other casting classes scales pretty quickly.)