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sandmote
2023-09-22, 02:56 PM
This post on the homebrewery (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/A1rKCjhsbUbQ)

A while ago there was a thread talking about how the ranger's favored enemy feature exists, but that the rest of the ranger chassis doesn't really interact with any favored enemies, even thematically. The hunter subclass gets a few options at 3rd level, but there isn't much else. One of the examples listed was the general concept of how a dragon fighting ranger might be trained to fight dragons in particular, those skills would likely carry over.

So with the worry that someone already beat me to writing up an actual subclass, I wrote a take on the concept. Kind of wanted to switch so some other damage creature type, but giants feels like its be a bunch of effects which apply only against "a creature large or larger," and fiends and undead feel a bit too varied to choose individual features against the entire type (similar to why they're such strong choices for favored enemies), and the other options seemed really limited. Maybe an anti-aberration subclass with expertise on escaping/avoiding a grapple, resistance to psychic damage, and...something?

Anyway, the drakeslayer:

Drakeslayer
Dragons and drakes are powerful creatures which can easily devastate small communities when young and entire nations when in adulthood. Drakeslayers are rangers who train against dragons as archetypal destructive foes, learning techniques which are primarily designed to give them superiority in combat against dragons. Luckily, the same abilities that make striking down dragons easier are often also helpful in defeating other creatures which utilize flight, fear, breath weapons, or other draconic strategies.


Drakeslayer Magic
Starting at 3rd level, you learn an additional spell when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown in the Drakeslayer Spells table. The spell counts as a ranger spell for you, but it doesn’t count against the number of ranger spells you know.

Drakeslayer Spells
Ranger Level Feature
3rd Absorb Elements
5th Earthbind
9th Crusader’s Mantle
13th Greater Invisibility
17th Greater Restoration Hold Monster
Greater Invisibly for the "I can't see you but I can smell you, hear your breath," sequence. Couldn't come up with a good 5th level spell, so I figured I'd let them heal good dragons after a misunderstanding.


Leap to the Dragons
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, your training against the flying dragons allows you to make jumps that other find impossible. Your jump height increases by 10 feet.

Additionally, when you expend movement to make a jump of 5 feet or more, once per turn you can choose to channel the force of the jump into your next attack. Until your turn ends the end of the turn or you expend additional movement after the jump, your next melee attack deals an additional 1d8 damage of the weapon’s type on a hit.
In concept this is meant to represent jumping at something and channeling your momentum into your blow, although I'd appreciate any suggestions for making the mechanics more clearly match the theme. Yes, this is technically more powerful than colossus slayer, although I'm not sure it by much?


No Fear in the Known
At 6th level, your practice shrugging off the supernatural fear dragons cause has both made you more resistant to fear and allows you to calm the nerves of others. When you have advantage on saving throws against effects that would cause you to become frightened.

Additionally, when you are within 5 feet of a creature that can see and hear you and is frightened by an effect which ends on a successful Wisdom saving throw, you can use your action to allow the creature to make an additional saving throw against the effect causing it to be frightened, ending the effect on a success.
I know, I ended up with Steel Will+. Still, I wanted something that can help the group rather than just the ranger. It requires using your action, so there will be problems if the frightened target is dashing away.


Response to Legends
Starting at 11th level, you learn to respond to your environment during combat in the same manner as the legendary dragons. You gain an additional reaction on each of your turns, which can be used only at the end of another creature’s turn. You can use this action to either make a weapon attack or to attempt to hide from another creature. If you successfully hide from another creature and had movement remaining at the end of your last turn, you can expend up to 10 feet of that remaining movement as part of your reaction to hide. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
To fight something with legendary actions, you must learn legendary actions, I guess. The hide one is intended to respond to the number of creature with "make a perception check" as one of their legendary actions. And the movement to make it feel less like they're spotting you and losing track of you while you're still in the same spot.


Evade Breath
By 15th level, you’re so used to evading the breath of dragons that you can resist all such effects. When you make a saving throw against an area of effect that allows you to make a Dexterity or Constitution saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
The balance is intended to be that it only applies to areas of effect. Someone with Evasion doesn't get advantage against a cloud of poison, but someone with this feature doesn't get advantage against an arrow or a ray type spell.

JNAProductions
2023-09-22, 04:14 PM
I was entirely prepared going in to say "Focusing on one type of foe to the exclusion of others is a recipe for an unbalanced subclass-either too good (you're facing the foe) or too bad (you're not)."

Sandmote, you entirely avoided that issue. Everything here is GOOD against dragons, but it's also generally applicable. Holy cramoly, you did a STELLAR job here!

sandmote
2023-09-26, 01:08 PM
I was entirely prepared going in to say "Focusing on one type of foe to the exclusion of others is a recipe for an unbalanced subclass-either too good (you're facing the foe) or too bad (you're not)."

Sandmote, you entirely avoided that issue. Everything here is GOOD against dragons, but it's also generally applicable. Holy cramoly, you did a STELLAR job here!Coming from you this means a lot, thanks. :smallredface: However, I feel the need to admit I got the method for avoiding this problem from someone else; I only applied the concept to one of the groups of creatures with the most consistent set of mechanical abilities.

I don't know if I'll try making one of these for aberrations or demons, but I expect those to be harder to make work than with dragons.

Vogie
2023-10-03, 08:34 AM
These are really good. I'm so-so on the first one - while thematic, it will kinda fall flat in practice (pun intended). Most of the time when a party is fighting a dragon, the dragon is either on the ground OR too high in the air to jump to. And, while you have the mechanical feeling of that charge turning momentum into damage, the execution in most fights will be the Ranger starting the turn with "I'm just going to jump up in place, then continue to attack this guy next to me" or they won't get that damage bonus. Thankfully, in 5e specifically, jumping up and down in the same spot won't provoke an opportunity attack (it would in 3.P and PF2) while still giving that Elden-Ring-esque "jump attack" feel.

If you still want to increase the jump distance to get that zipping over a battlefield feel, maybe model it off of the Monk's Step of the Wind, doubling the jump distance and allowing to dash as a Bonus action. It'll be actually better for a Ranger, as they would have a larger strength score (which jump distance is calculated with strength). But make sure any increase of jump is tied to the Dash action, as in 5e the max amount any movement is your speed and requires a 10 ft run preceding the jump (unless you also have the Athlete feat)

One thing to note about dragons specifically in 5e that could become useful is that their claws, bite and tail attacks are not magical weapons. While monsters in 5e can be magical themselves, but if they don't have the "magic weapons" feature in their stat block, their weapons aren't. This is one of the reasons why things like Heavy Armor Master feat stay relatively relevant in the later game. Flicking through the dragon-y things in 5e, the only one who does have this is the Stone Dragon Statue from Tales from the Yawning Portal.

One way you can use that and keep the feel you're looking for, you could use something like this:


Dragon Hunting
Whenever you strike a creature with a weapon attack, the creature takes an extra 1d4 damage. If that creature is large or larger, the amount of extra damage increases to 1d8. You can deal this extra damage only once per turn.
In addition, when a Large or larger creature within 15 feet of you hits or misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to gain resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage until the beginning of your next turn.

This uses the verbiage of the Hunter subclass, but expanded it so they can hunt anything larger than them. I increased the range of the reaction response because dragon claw attacks have a range of 10 ft and tail attacks have a range of 15 ft.

For a 5th level spell, Hold Monster could be good because they could target dragons with it. It's also on the Monster Slayer Ranger expanded spell list. Another option, since you included Crusader's Mantle as the 3rd-level, would be Holy Weapon as a step-up from that same general idea.

sandmote
2023-10-07, 05:40 PM
If you still want to increase the jump distance to get that zipping over a battlefield feel, maybe model it off of the Monk's Step of the Wind, doubling the jump distance and allowing to dash as a Bonus action. It'll be actually better for a Ranger, as they would have a larger strength score (which jump distance is calculated with strength). But make sure any increase of jump is tied to the Dash action, as in 5e the max amount any movement is your speed and requires a 10 ft run preceding the jump (unless you also have the Athlete feat) This isn't entirely correct: you can make a "standing long jump" or "standing high jump" clearing half the normal distance. That's also why the Athlete feat specifies making "a running long jump or a running high jump," in the last bullet.

This is relevant to the minimum strength score needed to make a standing high jump and still get the damage benefit from Leap to the Dragons. When doubling jump height you'd be looking for 5>= 2*(3+STR)/2 for a minimum strength modifier of +2 (score of 14), but when adding 10 feet to your normal jump height you only need 5>= (3+STR+10)/2 which works with a Strength modifier as low as -3 (score of 4).

And I'd rather keep the a jumping requirement at at least one square in some direction. Otherwise, yeah, doubling jump distances is probably more interesting.


Dragon Hunting
Whenever you strike a creature with a weapon attack, the creature takes an extra 1d4 damage. If that creature is large or larger, the amount of extra damage increases to 1d8. You can deal this extra damage only once per turn.
In addition, when a Large or larger creature within 15 feet of you hits or misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to gain resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage until the beginning of your next turn.
Seeing as I wanted some sort of thematic skill at 3rd level to explain why you deal extra damage on a hit, I do still prefer Leap to the Dragons. While this wouldn't require any minimum strength score to get the damage, I still prefer the theme of "I ready an attack as the dragon make their flyby and leap up to reach them," far more than "I just deal extra damage to stuff."

And actually having written that out, I'll change the text of Leap to the Dragons to say "end of the turn," instead of "end of your turn."


For a 5th level spell, Hold Monster could be good because they could target dragons with it. It's also on the Monster Slayer Ranger expanded spell list. Another option, since you included Crusader's Mantle as the 3rd-level, would be Holy Weapon as a step-up from that same general idea. I very much like the Hold Monster suggestion. I'll make that change.

And after writing in the change I think that's 4 spells not on the ranger spell list, on a subclass with otherwise strong features. I think the drakeslayer's overall power needs to be toned down.