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Larbek24
2023-09-23, 03:58 AM
Some time ago I read the Shadowcraft Mage from Paladin thread and thought to myself that a LG Paladin of Wee Jas while possible is unusual. So it got me thinking what other gods are technically possible but unusual for a LG Paladin and ended with Kossuth who is true neutral also allows all lawful alignments.

And now I'm thinking about the build and what PrCs I should take. Some of the common PrCs I saw for the Paladin are:
Gray Guard is a good PrC
Shadowbane Inquisitor may also be fitting
Kensai is possible but boring

Chevalier is one I would rather not take as I don't want to be mounted
Halfling Outrider and Wild Plains Outrider fall into the same category as Chevalier

Blackguard is not possible as I want to stay LG
Ruby Knight Vindicator: wrong Patron Deity
Shining Blade of Heironeous: wrong Patron Deity
Ordained Champion: wrong Patron Deity
Divine Crusader: wrong alignment
Pious Templar: True believer feat is most likely impossible
Sword of the Arcane Order: Feat not PrC but also wrong Patron Deity.
Prestige Paladin: I would rather have the Paladin as the base class.

Also lastly I would love to have an at-will fire effect and the best way I spontaniously know would be the "Fiery Burst" reserve feat combined with the "Holy Fire" or "Meteoric Strike" spells.

Does someone have any good suggestions?

Inevitability
2023-09-23, 04:29 AM
Fire Devotion adds some fire damage to your attacks for a minute and sets people alight. Assuming a +3 charisma modifier, you get can up to four uses of it per day from level 4 on. It scales also!

A dragonborn of bahamut (compatible with worshipping other gods) gives you a breath weapon usable every few rounds.

Dragonfire Assault lets you deal your power attack bonus damage as fire instead of regular damage, it's mostly good if you're fighting something vulnerable to fire or with really high DR / immunity to your weapon damage type. It does require the dragonblood subtype to use, though dragon magic included lots of variants of PHB races that qualify.

A bit of a convoluted combo:
-Start off your build with a level of wizard,
-Take Precocious Apprentice (Furnace Within)
-Never cast it
-While you have the spell prepared, your melee attacks deal 1 extra point of fire damage.
-Presumably you have to be a dwarf to prepare the spell, but RAW you only have to be a dwarf to cast it, because the dwarf-only restriction is a component, so... make the argument this works regardless of race?

Zarvistic
2023-09-23, 05:45 AM
Maybe the Flame Steward from dragon 283? You get at-will burning hands and flame strike, spells and some other stuff.

Darg
2023-09-23, 11:02 AM
Honestly, as weird as it sounds pyrokineticist fits the character concept. While it might take a bit of adaptation, I think it would fill out a flavorful concept of a paladin devoted to cleansing fire. That said I need to read up on Kossuth.

Larbek24
2023-09-23, 11:20 AM
Fire Devotion sounds thematically appropriate.
Dragonborn of Bahamut is not really my cup of tea.
Dragonfire assault would also be interesting and if I take a Fireblood Dwarf it would be part of the theme and I could combine it with the "Furnace Within" trick that can be combined with Flame Burst. As we all know more fire is always better.

The pyrokineticist must be reworked quite a lot. A bit too chaotic and psionic. Also I would rather keep a (mostly) full BAB.

About Flame Steward I can just say the following: Holy Cow is it awesome and fits mechanically and thematically perfect. Also it is really strong. I think Monte Cook wanted that DMs throw books at everyone who wants to play one.

Gorthawar
2023-09-23, 01:36 PM
A half-orc paladin 4 / half-orc paragon 2 can be lawful good and not lose its rage. You can add fire devotion powered by your turn undead for fire damage and blazing berserker to turn yourself on fire. Once you have initiator level 5 you can add holocaust cloak to actually do fire damage to folks attacking you.

Larbek24
2023-09-24, 04:04 AM
Blazing berserker sounds good quite nice for that character. Being a halforc would also open up the half-orc paladin substitution levels from Races of Destiny and a lenient DM may allow the Righteous Fury to work with Blazing Berserker.
Also Dragon Magic's Frostblood Half-Orc would get Endurance for Flame Steward and still be dragonblooded for other goodies.
Only problem is the fire vulnerability that the character would lose during rage.
I need to find a more permanent way to lose that or reflavoring into fireblood half-orcs even if that may be weaker.

Holocaust Cloak is good but it eats either two feats or a swordsage dip. Also as a German normally playing with Americans that may not be the best idea.

Darg
2023-09-24, 08:59 AM
The pyrokineticist must be reworked quite a lot. A bit too chaotic and psionic. Also I would rather keep a (mostly) full BAB.

Black flame zealots are followers of Kossuth, but they are a nongood order. What about a reflavored Exorcist of the Silver Flame. Call it Champion of the Purifying Flame. Flavor the smite and anti-outsider abilities to also work against any alignment elemental.

Tzardok
2023-09-24, 09:33 AM
I'm pretty sure Black Flame Zealots are worshippers of Pyrenius, a Greyhawk deity of Fire, Poison and Murder.

Troacctid
2023-09-24, 09:50 AM
Holocaust Cloak is good but it eats either two feats or a swordsage dip. Also as a German normally playing with Americans that may not be the best idea.
Ah, it's a Princess Bride reference, just remember to list it among your assets and you'll be fine!

I like the idea of a swordsage dip to pick up some Desert Wind stuff, personally, but if you're going to spend feats, then Shape Soulmeld (Mantle of Flame) is cheaper.

Darg
2023-09-24, 09:51 AM
I'm pretty sure Black Flame Zealots are worshippers of Pyrenius, a Greyhawk deity of Fire, Poison and Murder.

No, the class isn't specific to any deity, at least in CD. It's under the adaptation section where they can be adapted to any deity and mentions Pyremius and Kossuth specifically.

Larbek24
2023-09-25, 07:40 AM
The Black Flame Zealot is not specific to one god that is true but it fits Pyrenius more than Kossuth (at least in my opinion). Also it would need to be heavily reworked.
Being non-good, posion use (and potentially death attack), the need to kill somebody just to be accepted into the order all don't work well with a LG paladin also 2nd level divine spells mean at least 8 paladin levels.
Exorcist of the Silver Flame is nice against evil outsiders and to strengthen your weapon. But the need to be reflavored for Kossuth puts in the same category as e.g. Ruby Knight Vindicator.

The mantle of flame is (to me) the better option than holocaust cloak especially if I manage to get more essentia. Honestly for my love of incarnum I use the book not often enough. May be because most GMs I play with don't use it.

Also after reading Flame Steward again I'm asking myself if I can use the SLA Atonement to atone for breaking the paladin codex.

Troacctid
2023-09-25, 08:39 AM
Also after reading Flame Steward again I'm asking myself if I can use the SLA Atonement to atone for breaking the paladin codex.
Yes, with the caveat that atonement requires sincere repentance, so you can't break the code on purpose with the intent of casting the SLA on yourself to get around it, like the way some rich people might deliberately park illegally because they know the fine for it is only going to be 0.01% of their monthly income.