God-Emperor of Man vs. Cthulhu

[Eerie]

When things turn grim... Great Old Ones to the rescue!

Can I hear a "Nom-non-nom"?

On a more serious note, it is probably a draw. We reached a level of munchkin energy so high, that quantum non relativistic effects will forever stop us from determining a winner...

[Dervag]

There is some sense in which the non-human deities of the powerful on an interstellar scale. The difference appears to be that in Warhammer, the humans can match those levels of power. In the Cthulhu mythos, humans are pathetic meatlings compared to the vastly more powerful, advanced, and wise beings of the mythos. Warhammer humans can have psychic champions capable of fending off attacks by even the most determined and fierce outside entities, and technology that would make the Elder Things* nervous.

*See At the Mountains of Madness for reference, and for an idea of just how powerful the Elder Things were.


So before this turns into a discussion of the obvious fact that within the Cthulhu mythos, Cthulhu is a world-shattering being whose coming heralds the annihilation of humanity as a trivial side effect of more important events, you might want to keep that in mind. Warhammer humans are not necessarily inferior to the powerful alien races of the mythos, and some of those races (such as the Elder Things) were capable of giving Cthulhu and his spawn a run for their money.

[Winterwind]

If this was the God-Emperor against one of the Elder Gods, like Yog-Sothoth or Azathoth, I would not hesitate to give the win to the latter, incomprehensible and terrifying beings.

But Cthulhu is a more local deity, and far advanced species were able to combat him.

While I kinda share Eerie's notion we might have reached an apex of munchkineery where we no longer can determine which side has an advantage, if I was forced to bet... from what I have heard about WH40k, I think I would actually go with the God-Emperor of Mankind.

[Eerie]

There is some sense in which the non-human deities of the powerful on an interstellar scale. The difference appears to be that in Warhammer, the humans can match those levels of power. In the Cthulhu mythos, humans are pathetic meatlings compared to the vastly more powerful, advanced, and wise beings of the mythos. Warhammer humans can have psychic champions capable of fending off attacks by even the most determined and fierce outside entities, and technology that would make the Elder Things* nervous.

I heard they have torches in their spaceships, though... :smallamused:

[Prophaniti]

Torches? I believe I know what you're refering to. A lot of Imperial Warships, both pre- and post-Heresy, have specially placed exhaust ports that can be activated to vent plasma 'flames'. These serve like a banner-waving sword-brandishing 'have at thee!' to the enemy forces. Heat will quickly give away your position in space combat.

We bring the light of illumination to you. -The Flight of the Eisenstein, James Swallow. Horus Heresy bk IV

That said, Imperial technology is rather inefficient. The Imperium can no longer duplicate much of the technology they use and maintaining it has become highly ritualized. Indeed, technology itself is something of a religion, (see 'tech-priests of Mars' and 'Omnissiah') and it can be very dangerous for you if you know how to work tech and don't observe the rituals.

[loopy]

That said, Imperial technology is rather inefficient. The Imperium can no longer duplicate much of the technology they use and maintaining it has become highly ritualized. Indeed, technology itself is something of a religion, (see 'tech-priests of Mars' and 'Omnissiah') and it can be very dangerous for you if you know how to work tech and don't observe the rituals.

My favorite part of the whole "technology as religion" in Warhammer was a Tech-Priests guide to activating a dreadnought, involving Auguries and sacred oils, purity seals applied at certain times of day.

If all the above rituals were observed correctly, then, and only then, was the 'machine-spirit' deemed appeased and thus the tech priest could proceed to the final step of the instructions.

-Press large red button labeled 'start'.

[lipe44]

My favorite part of the whole "technology as religion" in Warhammer was a Tech-Priests guide to activating a dreadnought, involving Auguries and sacred oils, purity seals applied at certain times of day.

If all the above rituals were observed correctly, then, and only then, was the 'machine-spirit' deemed appeased and thus the tech priest could proceed to the final step of the instructions.

-Press large red button labeled 'start'.

Oh my god...

[Attilargh]

Not a Dreadnaught, but an unspecified Naval vessel. And the button isn't necesarily red, either.

[....]

I actually think that the Emperor would stand a chance here.

I always viewed the Chaos Gods and, to a lesser extent, the C'tan as Lovecraftian deities, andthe God-Emperor fought four Chaos Gods and almost beat them.

If it was Yog-Sothoth, Shub-Niggurath, or Azathoth, though, I'd give it them them for sure.

[Smeik]

Doesn't Cthulhu sleep somewhere under an Ocean on Earth?

So, this Earth has become Holy Terra by the time of WH40k, a giant complex ruled by a nigh-invincible God-Emperor who feeds of (special) human Minds...

Couldn't it be, that [shocking revelation] The God-Emperor of Man IS Cthulhu?[/shocking revelation]

Or at least, that he already has defeated him earlier and drained Cthulhu's power, making the God-Emperor as he is today? :smallbiggrin:

[lipe44]

Doesn't Cthulhu sleep somewhere under an Ocean on Earth?

So, this Earth has become Holy Terra by the time of WH40k, a giant complex ruled by a nigh-invincible God-Emperor who feeds of (special) human Minds...

Couldn't it be, that [shocking revelation] The God-Emperor of Man IS Cthulhu?[/shocking revelation]

Or at least, that he already has defeated him earlier and drained Cthulhu's power, making the God-Emperor as he is today? :smallbiggrin:

Or maybe Cthulhu hired the God-Emperor to take care of some things he considered powerless but the God-Emperor stole them and become the God-Emperor as we know today.

[Xefas]

As I understand it, the Primarchs are like Super Saiyan Jesuses (Jesi?) in and of themselves, so would it even take the Emperor to defeat Cthulhu? He seems to be something like a very powerful Demon Prince, considering such a creature does routinely end worlds every now and again.

[SurlySeraph]

Oh my god...

"... and if machine spirit is not roused, the Lithany of Profanity should be spoken, followed by ritual striking of machine with one's fist. After which, depress the red rune again."
- Adeptus Mechanicus manual :smallbiggrin:


I'd go with the God-Emperor. Never forget: Cthulu got his head split in half by a steamship. Yes, it promptly regenerated, but that indicates that physically damaging him isn't that hard to do.

[Dervag]

On the other hand, he probably hadn't had his morning coffee at that point.

I know it sounds like a joke, but is it that hard to believe that Cthulhu's physical durability would have been greater had he been awake for more time?

[Selrahc]

I know it sounds like a joke, but is it that hard to believe that Cthulhu's physical durability would have been greater had he been awake for more time?

Yeah, but how much greater?

A steamship crashing into something is a level of force substantially below something like a grenade. A grenade is a level of force substantially below a standard issue bolt shell issued to marines.

Now the Emperor has access to things that can rip up cities. Things far more powerful than nukes. If he needs to he can launch a vortex missile, and rip Cthulhu apart pan dimensionally. If he needs to go beyond that, he can destroy the entire planet Cthulhu is sitting on. If he needs to go beyond that, he can psychically rip assunder the region of space Cthulhu is in, while bombarding it with hideously advanced future guns at the same time. If he needs to go beyond that, then there are rumours of scary dark age of technology weaponry, able to do horrifying things(Deus Ex Machina superweapons in other words. I'd bet they could probably make black holes with that sort of stuff). If he needs to go beyond that, he can throw Cthulhu into another dimension, where he will at least cease to be a bother.

Unless Cthulhu goes from "able to be scared off by a steamship" to "so invulnerable the collapse of space-time doesn't even phase me", then the Emperor could probably defeat him with raw physical force.

[Catch]

Well, if you want to bring up the fact that Cthulhu had just woken up, I probably should mention that the Emperor is a glorified psychic sack of meat holed up in a gigantic sarcophagus. The Imperium worships a half-dead cripple.

Cthulhu wins because he still has a mind. And, you know, the ability to manipulate objects.

[SurlySeraph]

Cthulhu wins because he still has a mind. And, you know, the ability to manipulate objects.

Guiding the Astronomicon takes a mind. Granted, all the sacrificed psykers are the power source, but it's the Emperor that guides it.

And I say if he can created an enormous psychic beacon, he can bloody well move things with telekinesis. This is moot, however, if we're taking both parties at the height of their power.

Though you know, these threads never consider a fight between the characters at their lowest level of power. A fight between a sleeping Cthulu and the Emperor with a torn-off arm, missing eye, and snapped spinal cord would be fairly even and far more amusing... :smallamused:

[Xefas]

Though you know, these threads never consider a fight between the characters at their lowest level of power. A fight between a sleeping Cthulu and the Emperor with a torn-off arm, missing eye, and snapped spinal cord would be fairly even and far more amusing... :smallamused:

Cthulhu uses Rest.

Cthulhu has fallen asleep!

God-Emperor of Mankind uses Bide.

Cthulhu uses Snore.

It was super effective!

God-Emperor of Mankind has fainted.

Use next Deity?

[FoE]

This is utterly pointless, and do you know why? Because Cthulhu always wins, no matter who he's up against. He's Cthulhu.

[Solo]

This is utterly pointless, and do you know why? Because Cthulhu always wins, no matter who he's up against. He's Cthulhu.

Blasphemer! Your vile xenos, warp spawned, Chaos tainted creature can never hope to measure up to the glory that is the God-Emperor of Mankind!

[Moff Chumley]

In light of the previous two comments, I am going to say 'Chuck Norris' now and get it over with. Chuck Norris. There.

In any case, I give this to the God-Emperor. Although, on other threads, we have already decided that anything against WH40k is doomed, such is the level of munchkinry that runs rampant thirty eight thousand years from now.

[....]

This is utterly pointless, and do you know why? Because Cthulhu always wins, no matter who he's up against. He's Cthulhu.


*cough* Azathoth *cough*

[Xefas]

In any case, I give this to the God-Emperor. Although, on other threads, we have already decided that anything against WH40k is doomed, such is the level of munchkinry that runs rampant thirty eight thousand years from now.

Unless...hmmm...if whatever was up against the universe could wait them out for, say, 361 thousand years, WH40k would become WH-401k, and retire.

...retire.

Ba dum psh?

[....]

Besides, something locked Cthulhu away once.

Maybe it WAS the God-Emperor? And we're actually all thats left of the Imperium of Man!?

[Irenaeus]

Besides, something locked Cthulhu away once.

Maybe it WAS the God-Emperor? And we're actually all thats left of the Imperium of Man!?If that is the case, Cthulhu won.

[SurlySeraph]

Besides, something locked Cthulhu away once.

Maybe it WAS the God-Emperor? And we're actually all thats left of the Imperium of Man!?

The fossil record says no. As cool as that would be.

[....]

The fossil record says no. As cool as that would be.

CONSPIRACY!

[Skjaldbakka]

I have to go with Cthulhu on this one, until Cthulhu Tech comes out, in which case, he will have stats aside from "Cthulhu- You-Lose Elemental".

[Eerie]

*cough* Azathoth *cough*

Brothers won`t fight. :smallbiggrin:

[PhallicWarrior]

You must not know very many brothers, then.
:smallwink:

[lipe44]

You must not know very many brothers, then.
:smallwink:

They may hate each other but whats better, killing a guy and all his armies or killing your brother and getting bored after?

[puppyavenger]

I'll give my new answer for all 40k versus threads, The Tyrnaid hive mind uses the distraction to eat them all and Hive Tyrants are now super phsyker lovecraftian tyrants of DOOM.

[Dervag]

This is utterly pointless, and do you know why? Because Cthulhu always wins, no matter who he's up against. He's Cthulhu.Blasphemer! Cthulhu is but the high priest of the true powers in the cosmos!

[Illiterate Scribe]

Well, hasn't it always been hinted that the Tyranids are running from something ... well, y'see ... :smallwink:

I'd probably go with MAD here. Cthulu's an unimaginable, undying, non-Euclidean avatar of madness, but the Emperor's psychic potential is sufficient to partially hold back the manifestations of lust, violence, entropy and time.

The Emperor probably could wipe out Cthulhu (there are ways of doing that in Warpspace - didn't the Dreadbringer literally get eaten by one of the bigger four? We also haven't heard from Kweethul, either ...), but only at the cost of his mind.

[Eerie]

I'll give my new answer for all 40k versus threads, The Tyrnaid hive mind uses the distraction to eat them all and Hive Tyrants are now super phyker lovecraftian tyrants of DOOM.

See also: Cthulhu wins. :smallwink:

[redwight]

I'll just go for Son Goku. ^_^ He's even more powerful than the king of the universe. God- emperor only control some part of milky way galaxy. Oh I almost forgot war still wages on his territory ^_^. Tell me about Cthulhu who is locked away under the sea, and wait that reminds me of Picollo who also lock away under the sea....

[Devonix]

See also: Cthulhu wins. :smallwink:

Except has Cthulhu ever been depicted as actually winning? Ever?

[Traab]

There is some sense in which the non-human deities of the powerful on an interstellar scale. The difference appears to be that in Warhammer, the humans can match those levels of power. In the Cthulhu mythos, humans are pathetic meatlings compared to the vastly more powerful, advanced, and wise beings of the mythos. Warhammer humans can have psychic champions capable of fending off attacks by even the most determined and fierce outside entities, and technology that would make the Elder Things* nervous.

*See At the Mountains of Madness for reference, and for an idea of just how powerful the Elder Things were.


So before this turns into a discussion of the obvious fact that within the Cthulhu mythos, Cthulhu is a world-shattering being whose coming heralds the annihilation of humanity as a trivial side effect of more important events, you might want to keep that in mind. Warhammer humans are not necessarily inferior to the powerful alien races of the mythos, and some of those races (such as the Elder Things) were capable of giving Cthulhu and his spawn a run for their money.

Bah, let him shatter the earth, that is but one planet among hundreds. How many intelligent species has the god emperor destroyed? How many worlds shattered before the might of his imperium? The god emperor is not impressed.

[Frozen_Feet]

The Emperor wins. In the context of Cthulhu mythos, the high-priest is powerful, yes... but that's because the comparison point is normal humans ignorant of and impotent in the face of the preternatural.

But in context of WH40K, that's not what it's facing. It's facing a world where a "normal human" can be armed with energy weapons capable of grinding concrete to dust. Where there are thousands upon thousands of post-human entities that routinely face similarly eerie threats and triumph.

In context of WH40K, Cthulhu is a daemon, and I'd say not even a particularly powerful one. The Emperor, crippled or not, doesn't need to lift a finger himself. Just his bodyguards (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes#.Tsk1WFZ5uuI) are enough to tackle the sleeping one. That's before you take to account his other fanatic followers trained to face such threats.

Even in personal combat, I'll give it to the Emperor. At the height of his power, he could fight against avatar of four eldritch forces, each comparable to entities Cthulhu is a mere servant to. Now, he might be a dried husk... but you know what's proposed will happen if said husk is destroyed? The Emperor will rise again, as a psychic ghost powerful enough to rearrange the Warp, ie., metaphysical shadow of the whole galaxy.

Emperor himself is closer to the things Cthulhu worships as its superiors. The squid really is outmatched here.

[Seraph]

I'd go with the God-Emperor. Never forget: Cthulu got his head split in half by a steamship. Yes, it promptly regenerated, but that indicates that physically damaging him isn't that hard to do.

the main problem with this argument being that it assumes damaging Cthulhu's physical form is actually an achievement worth writing home about, rather than a minor annoyance at best. In all likelihood, you could drop all the virus bombs and world breaking superweapons you want, and Cthulhu wouldn't really be permanently affected in any meaningful way.

[Tiki Snakes]

the main problem with this argument being that it assumes damaging Cthulhu's physical form is actually an achievement worth writing home about, rather than a minor annoyance at best. In all likelihood, you could drop all the virus bombs and world breaking superweapons you want, and Cthulhu wouldn't really be permanently affected in any meaningful way.

Yeah, I can see that. If Cthulhu's physical form is not relevant to beating him, then simply breaking him won't get you anywhere, no matter how hard you hit him.

If only the Emporer had access to some kind of powerful psychic attack.

[Kindablue]

"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
Yet with strange aeons even death may die."

So that's what he was talking about. Internet forum threads.

[Fan]

The God Emperor shoots psychic super nova's from his eyes. This is not hyperbole.

It would take something like Yog Sothoth (Mightier than Mighty Azathoth, and Wiser than Wise Yib Tsil. To quote Dereleth.), or Azathoth's awakening to handle him.

The God Emperor of Mankind single handedly imprisoned The Void Dragon beneath Mars, his Son fought a dragon for weeks, and finally when his bare hands (which normally punch through tanks.) weren't enough he decided to drown the Dragon in Magma, and when the dragon melted all the molten metal did to his hands was give him a fresh pair of gauntlets, and he obviously wasn't hurt because he still maintained perfect motor control.

The God Emperor of Mankind is literally a God whereas Cthulhu is merely a Quasi Deity who spends his time worshipping the things that The God Emperor of Mankind fights 4 at a time.

[comicshorse]

As a Cthulhu Mythos fan I hate to say it but ol' Tentacle face is out of his league here. THe GE runs a interstellar empire with his mind and crushes daemons for relaxation. Cthulhu probably ranks as a Daemon Prince but he's still no match for the Emperor

[Selrahc]

The God Emperor shoots psychic super nova's from his eyes. This is not hyperbole.


By which I think you mean that it *is* hyperbole.

It's a descriptive metaphor applied to his attack on Horus, which is very much a florid rather than clinical description.

[Fan]

By which I think you mean that it *is* hyperbole.

It's a descriptive metaphor applied to his attack on Horus, which is very much a florid rather than clinical description.

It seemed pretty literal to me. The power of stars and all would be required to handle someone possessed by all four chaos gods at once.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm fairly sure Alpha Plus level psykers can cause actual supernovas when needed.

Really, as someone who's read his Lovecraft, I have to say that the squid is one of the most over-hyped entities in all of his works. It pales in comparison to several other horrors described in his works, including several high-tech civilizations not unlike those that are dime a dozen in WH40K.

In the context of Lovecraft's mythos, a single space-faring species is relegated to mythical and near-deific status in the eyes of humans. In WH40K, humans are such a species.

[Aotrs Commander]

I'm fairly sure Alpha Plus level psykers can cause actual supernovas when needed.

Really, as someone who's read his Lovecraft, I have to say that the squid is one of the most over-hyped entities in all of his works. It pales in comparison to several other horrors described in his works, including several high-tech civilizations not unlike those that are dime a dozen in WH40K.

In the context of Lovecraft's mythos, a single space-faring species is relegated to mythical and near-deific status in the eyes of humans. In WH40K, humans are such a species.

I think Cthulu's status was mostly over-inflated by the Call of Cthulu game, in which he was statless and ate D4 investigators a round or something. This being more-or-less a mechanical requirement, because otherwise, given any kind of actual stats, some players will try - and succeed - in killing him, just to say, "w00t, I killed Cthulu" which is sort of not really what the game was about, as I understand. On the basis that the authors wanted a threat that smart players just couldn't whomp, they had to vastly over-inflate his powers so they couldn't, and keep him as a credible threat. (In the mythos, nuking him would probably not make him come back radioactive...)

Even his make-you-go-crazy-aura/shriek thingy/whatever doesn't affect everyone (if that doesn't essentially boil down to what amounts to a real-world saving throw mechanic, I don't know what does!) Cthulu is probably quite tackleble at Epic D&D or superhero level (sorry, redundant clause there). The God-Emperor is kinda a lot above that level.

Now, Cthulu's bosses might stand more of a chance, but then you're getting into deity verses deity levels and it gets sort of difficult to quantify at that point in any meaningful manner.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm always one to point out that quite a bit of 40k is hyperbole where not lies and propaganda. However barring actual evidence to the contrary the Emperor is supposed to be the most powerful psyker to ever live.

He makes Great Cthulu's head explode, end of story.

[Tiki Snakes]

"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
Yet with strange aeons even death may die."

So that's what he was talking about. Internet forum threads.

I can't believe I missed that this was actually just an Epic Thread Necro. Damn, I'm usually less than terrible at spotting these.

[The Glyphstone]

I can't believe I missed that this was actually just an Epic Thread Necro. Damn, I'm usually less than terrible at spotting these.

I didn't notice it either, but that's because this forum seems to have a fetish for pairing up 40K Vs. Absolutely Anything for some reason.

[Aotrs Commander]

I didn't notice it either, but that's because this forum seems to have a fetish for pairing up 40K Vs. Absolutely Anything for some reason.

I just assumed it was a logical extension of the Culture vrs 40k, since I thought someone had made a comment about it...


Edit: *skullpalm* Posting this post isn't helping is it? Sorry.