Haley is the new Roy

[Alynn]

I just found the whole interchange between the rebels to be highly amusing in the fact that now Haley knows exactly how Roy feels most the time.

I wonder if she'll have new appreciation for Roy being in charge if/when he gets a Res.

I just see hints of Roy type frustration in that last panel.

And where the heck is the shoeless god of death?

[Ecalsneerg]

I'd guess he's still scared of his Mark of justice. And since this means staying close to Roy's body, he's probably off somewhere, alone with roy's corpse so some hobgobbo doesn't eat it.

[FujinAkari]

And where the heck is the shoeless god of death?

Why would he be there? He is magically prohibited from killing the Hobgoblins...

[sun_tzu]

I just found the whole interchange between the rebels to be highly amusing in the fact that now Haley knows exactly how Roy feels most the time.

I wonder if she'll have new appreciation for Roy being in charge if/when he gets a Res.

I just see hints of Roy type frustration in that last panel.

Not only that, but she's also displaying a more...heroic attitude than we've previously seen from here. I mean, that "you are the true slaves here" line alone...
IMHO, Haley's been in some kind of gray area between CG and CN since the start of the story. Now that she's actually leading a rebellion against a truly evil authority, she might be finding herself drifting further and further toward the good end...

[Spiky]

Well, perhaps all the Roy haters will develop a slight increase in understanding once they see someone else go through leadership.

[Charles Phipps]

Well, perhaps all the Roy haters will develop a slight increase in understanding once they see someone else go through leadership.

Yeah, Roys a rotten leader. But we knew that.

It doesn't mean he's a bad character.

But his utter inability to motivate his team is one of his running themes like Belkar is a bad Ranger.

[sun_tzu]

Yeah, Roys a rotten leader. But we knew that.

It doesn't mean he's a bad character.

But his utter inability to motivate his team is one of his running themes like Belkar is a bad Ranger.

He seemed to be motivating them just fine when he ripped their contracts after his talk with Shojo.

[Droodle]

IMHO, Haley's been in some kind of gray area between CG and CN since the start of the story. I disagree. The Giant made it clear, early on, that there is an altruistic motive for her greed. Given those circumstances, her actions fit quite well within her alignment.

[Emanick]

Yeah, Roys a rotten leader. But we knew that.

It doesn't mean he's a bad character.

But his utter inability to motivate his team is one of his running themes like Belkar is a bad Ranger.

Why exactly is Roy a bad leader? He has all the natural qualities a leader must have, except perhaps an lack of excessive Charisma. (According to the Giant, he even has an above-average Charisma score.) Which obviously isn't the most important quality - look at Elan. :smalltongue:
When half your team has such a range of eclectic personalities, it's a miracle that his team actually went along all the time. (Although granted, he needed a little help from Durkon with Miko, and it wouldn't have been easy for anybody to convince the team to go under arrest to a mysterious figure a thousand miles away when they could have killed her (think sleep) or escaped easily.

[Charles Phipps]

Why exactly is Roy a bad leader?

To be a leader, one must actually lead.

None of the team follow Roy because of his personal qualities as a leader, they follow him because they have nothing else better to do. Also, whenever one of them has their own idea, they do it.

He's "leader" because he had the quest and claims to be the leader. Except, he wasn't leading when Miko took over and was directing him. Roy is sort of like Brainy Smith, he hasn't really clued in that no one pays him any attention. Later, Hinjo took over.

He's an excellent fighter and strategist, but the later quality is meaningless since no one obeys him.

[Alynn]

None of the team follow Roy because of his personal qualities as a leader, they follow him because they have nothing else better to do.

You basically described every D&D group.... Ever... :smalltongue:

[blackspeeker]

You basically described every D&D group.... Ever... :smalltongue:

TRU DAT! They stick with him if anything to piss him off.

[Charles Phipps]

You basically described every D&D group.... Ever... :smalltongue:

hell, it describes the Fellowship of the Ring.

Aragorn "Okay, we go this..."

*Everyone breaks up and goes their separate ways*

"Oh, Eru Dammit!"

[monty]

You basically described every D&D group.... Ever... :smalltongue:

That about sums it up. The evil sorceror doesn't adventure with the good fighter (recent campaign scenario for me) because of their leadership or because they like them. It's because they need a meat shield. They group because they need a group.

[sun_tzu]

I disagree. The Giant made it clear, early on, that there is an altruistic motive for her greed. Given those circumstances, her actions fit quite well within her alignment.

Yeah, yeah, she needs the money to free her dad. Doesn't convince me. She was a greedy thief before her dad was imprisoned too.
If anything, I'm more impressed by the fact she was willing to help the dirt farmers for free.

[factotum]

Yeah, yeah, she needs the money to free her dad. Doesn't convince me. She was a greedy thief before her dad was imprisoned too.


I disagree with that. Haley always struck me as more the sort of person to whom thieving was a challenge...she would go after difficult targets just for the joy of knowing she'd overcome the obstacles and got what she came for. A thief driven purely by greed would have picked the easiest targets. (Note that she carries out an incredibly elaborate theft in "On the Origin of PCs" and gets a relative pittance out of it thanks to Thieves' Guild dues and other expenses).

It's only once she gets the letter about her father that she really starts going after money, and even then she takes the route of becoming an adventurer rather than mugging rich people on the streets.

[Green Bean]

It's only once she gets the letter about her father that she really starts going after money, and even then she takes the route of becoming an adventurer rather than mugging rich people on the streets.

I'm not sure that her choosing adventure over robbing rich folks was a matter of principle. I mean, she made a decision based on working out the most profitable option mathematically.

[Arakune]

Which have the least probability to make to the 30ties...

[David Argall]

It's only once she gets the letter about her father that she really starts going after money, and even then she takes the route of becoming an adventurer rather than mugging rich people on the streets.

Nope. She is greedy for as long as we have records. See Origens
"...10% cut of your future income in perpetuity..."

[Mando Knight]

She maybe even underwent an alignment shift during those three or so months... possibly to Neutral Good instead of Chaotic Neutral.

Anyway, I think that a large part of Roy's leadership problems is that he's Lawful Good and the others are mostly Chaotic (Elan, Haley, Belkar...) and thus resent the leadership of a Lawful person.

[Green Bean]

Anyway, I think that a large part of Roy's leadership problems is that he's Lawful Good and the others are mostly Chaotic (Elan, Haley, Belkar...) and thus resent the leadership of a Lawful person.

I'd say that the conflicts stem from the fact that half of his teammates are greedy, idiotic, or psychopathic.

[Querzis]

Anyway, I think that a large part of Roy's leadership problems is that he's Lawful Good and the others are mostly Chaotic (Elan, Haley, Belkar...) and thus resent the leadership of a Lawful person.

Belkar resent Roy leadership but thats because hes evil, not because hes chaotic. Haley and Elan dont resent his leadership at all, its just that they cant really be trusted to do anything (Haley because shes too crafty and Elan because hes not enough crafty...they make a great couple.)

And by the way charles philipps, if you dont consider Roy a good leader because everyone follow him since they have nothing better to do, then nobody is really a leader. I'm pretty sure absolutely everything everyone does is because they have nothing better to do. He was able to hold them together and make them become better people and teamates (well except Belkar but at least but at least he cant do much evil with Roy around).

[....]

Yeah, yeah, she needs the money to free her dad. Doesn't convince me. She was a greedy thief before her dad was imprisoned too.

Where do you get that idea?

[Legendary]

Where do you get that idea?

Rich explicitly says so somewhere. I don't know where though. Help, someone?

[MCerberus]

Where do you get that idea?

Right here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html)

[Spiky]

Yeah, Roys a rotten leader. But we knew that.

It doesn't mean he's a bad character.

But his utter inability to motivate his team is one of his running themes like Belkar is a bad Ranger.

You are blind. You apparently don't understand anything about leadership. Come back to this comic in 20 years and see if your comments are the same after gaining a little knowledge about life.

[sun_tzu]

Where do you get that idea?

"On the Origin of PCs".

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Roy isn't a bad leader. He's ineffectual, but that has more to do with his team than him. (that and the fact that RPs are famous for crushing the spirit of whoever is in control). Lets not forget, He managed to keep a team composed of an idiotic bard, a scholar, a priest, a serial killer, and a thief together and working towards a common goal. That takes so much skill and patience, I'm surprised he isn't in the loony bin right now.

Edit: example (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0212.html) of his daily life.

[Arssanguinus]

To be a leader, one must actually lead.

None of the team follow Roy because of his personal qualities as a leader, they follow him because they have nothing else better to do. Also, whenever one of them has their own idea, they do it.

He's "leader" because he had the quest and claims to be the leader. Except, he wasn't leading when Miko took over and was directing him. Roy is sort of like Brainy Smith, he hasn't really clued in that no one pays him any attention. Later, Hinjo took over.

He's an excellent fighter and strategist, but the later quality is meaningless since no one obeys him.

We are quite aware that for some reason you have a personal vendetta against Roy.

I don't really GET it, but I am aware of it.

[bluish_wolf]

Why exactly is Roy a bad leader?

If Roy was a good leader, he would have the Leadership feat and there would be an NPC following him around. Since he doesn't, clearly, he's a lousy leader.

[Mando Knight]

Nah, Roy's not necessarily a bad leader, it's just that he's an ineffective leader, and that is reflected in game mechanics in that he doesn't have the Leadership feat.

If he were a bad leader, then how would he be able to keep the Order of the Stick going posthumously? After all, the former members of the Stick could easily have gone their separate ways and formed their own PC groups (something similar to what Haley's done, but with more obviously PC-ish people than vanilla ex-guardsmen) to individually fight off Xykon.

[Iranon]

I personally think Roy is a jerk, and leading the team brings that out in him. However, I also think that he does a fair job. His team is too diverse and strong-willed for anyone to lead by inspiration and he is aware of that.
Imagine what would happen under a leader who tried to show off their motivation skills...



:durkon:: Ye know ye can count on me, lad, but this nay be the dwarven way. We do our duty because it's our duty, not because we enjoy it.

:elan:: I'm on an adventure! Wheee! [censored visuals]

:vaarsuvius:: I do not see how my enthusiasm or lack thereof concerns you as long as you receive my services at the best of my not unconsiderable ability, and I suggest you use your energy for a task more relevant to our progress rather than intruding my privacy.

:belkar:: So I finally get to stab someone?

:haley:: Now that we are a lean mean team, we should set apart our loot for long-term productive use rather than splitting it up immediately. Here is what I suggest...

The poor bastard.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Nah, Roy's not necessarily a bad leader, it's just that he's an ineffective leader, and that is reflected in game mechanics in that he doesn't have the Leadership feat.

If he were a bad leader, then how would he be able to keep the Order of the Stick going posthumously? After all, the former members of the Stick could easily have gone their separate ways and formed their own PC groups (something similar to what Haley's done, but with more obviously PC-ish people than vanilla ex-guardsmen) to individually fight off Xykon.
Or he just lacks the leadership feat because it is both insanely broken and useless, depending on how you do it.

[theinsulabot]

Yeah, Roys a rotten leader. But we knew that.

It doesn't mean he's a bad character.

But his utter inability to motivate his team is one of his running themes like Belkar is a bad Ranger.


wow thats terrible, i have seen better trolling on the warcraft general forums, and i didn't think anybody was worse at it then that sorry lot

[Kish]

Rich explicitly says so somewhere. I don't know where though. Help, someone?
He uses those exact words in the intro to OtOoPCs. Not, ah, that it wasn't obvious before he said that....One's father being held prisoner doesn't make money go straight to one's reptilian hind-brain the way it goes to Haley's.

[T-O-E]

Haley is the old Haley, and nothing more.

Who said she was chaotic neutral? By your own logic, Belkar must be lawful good. [/Sarcasm]